MN - Philando Castile, 32, shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #1

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Cannonball3804 said:
When you talk about transparency and open disclosure, are you talking about it being a two-way street?

Not just the citizen, but LE should be forthright about their concerns and reason for the stop. IOW, don't tell the citizen you're stopping him for a minor vehicle infraction when in fact you're wondering if he just committed armed robbery.

A citizen cannot read LE's thoughts any more than they can read ours. It's a recipe for disaster that PC, as soon as he heard broken taillight, probably relaxed inwardly and assumed that stop 53 was going to be just like the other 52. He would have likely acted very differently if he had known the real reason for the stop from the beginning.


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Completely disagree. Police are allowed to lie to suspects in an investigation.
 
Gardenista said:
Completely disagree. Police are allowed to lie to suspects in an investigation.
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The OP who I was replying to, called for more openness and transparency. He was talking about the citizen being transparent about having a gun.

I'm saying that if you're going to call for that, it's unfair in our free and democratic society to expect openness from one side and not the other.

What they're allowed to do is just part of the story. What they should do is another part. Remember LE are public servants. They work for us, not vice versa. There is no good justification for the officer to hide why he stopped them. After asking PC to keep his hands on the wheel, he could have advised him of the robbery suspects. There would have been no problem mentioning the match on race and dreadlocks. At least at that point PC could have said to himself, this cop thinks I might have committed armed robbery... I better be real careful here.


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rob said:
Why would you say it? Unless they asked to search the vehicle or you already had it out?
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I cannot speak for Minnesota, but my son has a concealed weapons permit for our state. If stopped he is required to immediately tell them he has a concealed weapons permit and he is caring his gun. No matter if the gun is in the car or on his person. When he signed for his permit that is one of the things he had sign to say he understood it was part of obligation.
He was also taught in the class to never reach for the gun.
 
Cannonball3804 said:
When you talk about transparency and open disclosure, are you talking about it being a two-way street?

Not just the citizen, but LE should be forthright about their concerns and reason for the stop. IOW, don't tell the citizen you're stopping him for a minor vehicle infraction when in fact you're wondering if he just committed armed robbery.

A citizen cannot read LE's thoughts any more than they can read ours. It's a recipe for disaster that PC, as soon as he heard broken taillight, probably relaxed inwardly and assumed that stop 53 was going to be just like the other 52. He would have likely acted very differently if he had known the real reason for the stop from the beginning.


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I guess I should have been clearer.

I was referring to lack of after-the-fact disclosure by law enforcement and public officials.

Disclosure of basic facts, specifically the number of shots fired in this case.
 
Everyday Grace said:
I guess I should have been clearer.

I was referring to lack of after-the-fact disclosure by law enforcement and public officials.

Disclosure of basic facts, specifically the number of shots fired in this case.
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Oh, totally different track than the one I was on. Agree with you. Hopefully more disclosure will come this week.


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Cannonball3804 said:
When you talk about transparency and open disclosure, are you talking about it being a two-way street?

Not just the citizen, but LE should be forthright about their concerns and reason for the stop. IOW, don't tell the citizen you're stopping him for a minor vehicle infraction when in fact you're wondering if he just committed armed robbery.

A citizen cannot read LE's thoughts any more than they can read ours. It's a recipe for disaster that PC, as soon as he heard broken taillight, probably relaxed inwardly and assumed that stop 53 was going to be just like the other 52. He would have likely acted very differently if he had known the real reason for the stop from the beginning.


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One of the reasons why information is kept from the public is for future prosecution. I sure would like to know everything that LE knows right now, but I understand the need. to complete the investigation first. Anything they release before all interviews and investigations are complete can have an effect on a successful prosecution.
 
There is the excellent point about the officer at the other window. Hm
 
Tillicum said:
Has it been confirmed that there were four shots? The girlfriend has claimed 3 shots, later claimed 4 shots and later still claimed 5 shots. I really hope we get some facts confirmed soon. I understand the girlfriend could've been confused but IMO that only concerns me more that she could've confused other specifics she has told us in regards to events leading up to the time her live video began. I am not looking for a way to defend LEO, I just want to know the facts before I form an opinion.
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This to me is a perfect example of why information is not released. There may be legitimate reasons why she has changed her story. She can explain in court. Let's say though the day before her story changed it was splashed all over the news that there were six shots fired. The next day she changes her story to the six shots. The defense team in a trial can use that and put it into the juries head that the only reason why she changed her story was because she saw the story that law enforcement said six shots and she changed her story to match the evidence. Even if that isn't true why she changed her story they can plant that seed and make a juror believe if she lied about that then she has lied about everything. IMO
 
As far as the shots go, who would be counting under those circumsatances I am sure the whole thing was surreal.
 
ohreally said:
I believe the lawyer. If it is a lie the girlfriend would be denying it in the media.
I am not at all saying CastIle was wrong in having the gun. The girlfriend says he has a permit so he had every legal right to carry and have it on him or in his car.
I do think it matters how the gun became visible. One thing she said is that 'If I had moved when the gun was out he would of shot me too.' That to me indicates that at some point the gun was not out then it appeared. One thing I don't believe is that law enforcement made it appear. The girlfriend would be telling every media source out there that it is a lie.
IMO how the gun appeared is very important in this case. It may or may not exonerate the officer.
One thing I have learned in following the cases since Ferguson is that anything can be said in media. What matters is what the evidence shows. All the way to the DOJ.
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She's talking about the cop's gun being out. He has the gun pointed at Castile e even after he fatally wounded him, and keeps threatening her to keep her hands where he can see them. If she had moved the cop may have shot her, too.
 
http://www.fox9.com/news/172822747-story

Some of the adults arrested at protest in I94

ce41b4f48a70dfc192ea9fd75cd5c748.jpg


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No need to worry about the ones who were arrested. Jail support is provided; attorneys and bail money. It's all part of the scheme.
 
Lol, those are the white allies. Arrest volunteers. Kind of like a badge.
 
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