GUILTY MO - Breeann Rodriguez, 3, Senath, 6 August 2011 - #3

[dsntslp]

And with the heat and humidity there, along with water temp, .....the deteriation would be rapid.

I had a two paragraph post I have typed three times now and deleted because it is premature at this point and much too graphic.

It's hard to ask some of the more scientific questions without being graphic.

I am wondering though, how much her bicycle weighs compared to her body in a bloat stage because shouldn't she have surfaced? How many days in are we now?

What aquatic predators are in MO swamps?

Disarticulation time in water with no predators at what current temp?

I just keep thinking she should have surfaced by now unless she is weighted or contained and weighted.

(Sorry if it is still too graphic)

SARx?????

ETA: My line of thinking is...
If she is weighted by her bike sonar would more easily find the bike than the body. At that point the two being together would be a good thing. IMO

 

[melley]

I've got to set your friend and you straight here. *The number of children who are abducted and murdered by non-family every year is about 100. *Given that there are about 74,000,000 (74 million!!) children between 0 and 17 in the US, your estimate of "only 1% to 2%" is a monumental-titanic exaggeration of epic proportions. *I can't in good conscience let you walk around thinking this way. *

Consider this: . *How many new missing child cases do we follow on here in a week? How many of those turn into non-caregiver-murders (or never recovered). *Two a week? That would work out to be about 100 in a year. *Remember, I'm not talking about all the kids who are murdered by their own parents or step parents or other close person, because keeping them from riding their bikes in the driveway, cul-de-sac, or the whole subdivision, wouldn't prevent those murders anyway. *To quote you, we are talking about kids who go missing and are killed

Okay, so, we've got about 100 out of 74,000,000 that's .000014% of all the kids in the US. *
1% means 1 in 100. *
.000014% means 1 in 7 million, 4 hundred thousand. *Just 1.*

And you would be willing to put your child in a cage to prevent this? *I hope you're exaggerating out of your sense of fear. *I wonder though. *How fearful are you when you drive your child in your vehicle? *I'm sure you use proper and age appropriate safety restraints, like me. * Consider: * About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes. *Are you going to put your son in a cage to prevent him traveling by motor vehicle?

It's worth considering too, in your lifetime, how many people do you personally know who were killed in a car accident? *Now, if you think about it, is it a pretty small number? *Consider then, the likelihood of your son being abducted and murdered. *It's pretty low. *Almost irrelevant, and really irrelevant compared to the risk of riding in a car. It's just rational to try to keep things in perspective.

I totally understand your statistical point and letting kids live a good life. My husband and I were just discussing this earlier. He grew up in Iowa where a newspaper boy went missing in the 70's and horrified everyone. It did not limit their lifestyle though. I grew up in the Bay Area of CA and remember vividly Polly Klaas. I just realized today that it never ends. All kinds of vigilant parents end up with missing kids.

However, the statistics don't matter when we are talking about an actual, countable, memorable, innocent child, like BreeAnn. More vigilance cannot hurt, but will it help? Who knows. It would help if creepy people who don't care about kids would disappear.


eta, not more vigilance on Breeann's parents part, I mean on my part. We have let my 3 y/o ride bikes with our 5 and 8 year old neighbors, but today I realize that is not good enough

 

[BeanE]

Good thoughts, but...from I understand, he is charged with 1st degree murder. Does that not involve some sort of planning? Stuff like this happens, but is very rare. Been a few hrs since I have read here but from what I have read, my thoughts...he doesn't have a violent criminal record ...he's a creep who just hasn't been caught yet, or just hasn't acted on sick fantasies yet. I don't believe for one second that there is a even somewhat innocent explanation for what happened to Breeann.

What even remotely sane minded person would act this way?

Runs over and and panics doesn't = 1st degree murder.

Ugh, I gotta go back and read. I think the lck of charges equal the laack of evidencce at this point. I believe he's a typical who preys on children. There are too many out there, and plenty out there that we don't know about yet.

BBM. Yep, first degree murder. Premeditated murder. Exactly what I was talking about.

Premeditation can take only seconds, and yeah, you see the child laying there, alive, and you decide to kill her, even in a panic or fear or whatever emotion you're feeling, it's pre-meditated.

Example:
LE: Did you think about calling 911? Calling an ambulance? Getting some help for her?

Perp: Yeah, I thought about all of that (premeditated thought), but I was scared, I couldn't believe I hit a baby, I knew I'd be in trouble (premeditated thought) and her parents would be furious (premeditated thought), so I looked around for a towel or something to smother her with (premeditated thought), and then I did it.

There's nothing 'innocent' about seeing an injured child, and then murdering them.

 

[vjlaw]

I had a two paragraph post I have typed three times now and deleted because it is premature at this point and much too graphic.

It's hard to ask some of the more scientific questions without being graphic.

I am wondering though, how much her bicycle weighs compared to her body in a bloat stage because shouldn't she have surfaced? How many days in are we now?

What aquatic predators are in MO swamps?

Disarticulation time in water with no predators at what current temp?

I just keep thinking she should have surfaced by now unless she is weighted or contained and weighted.

(Sorry if it is still too graphic)

SARx?????

I am not Sarx, sorry, but I wondered why she hasn't surfaced, too. I think possibly the ditches and water areas they are dragging are pretty muddy on bottom. I was thinking maybe she is stuck on the bottom in mud.

 

[BeanE]

For me, it's almost worse...who does this? Who picks up the child you just ran over who is "still" alive (tho' perhaps barely) and then puts the child out of it's misery like you would a stray animal on the side of the road? Breeann was not roadkill...she was a human being who deserved her life to be saved!

He was a father of three children himself...senseless!:banghead:

It does seem worse in a way to me too. If that is the scenario. He could have gotten help for her. It could have ended so differently.

 

[CarrieBean]

BBM. Yep, first degree murder. Premeditated murder. Exactly what I was talking about.

Premeditation can take only seconds, and yeah, you see the child laying there, alive, and you decide to kill her, even in a panic or fear or whatever emotion you're feeling, it's pre-meditated.

Example:
LE: Did you think about calling 911? Calling an ambulance? Getting some help for her?

Perp: Yeah, I thought about all of that (premeditated thought), but I was scared, I couldn't believe I hit a baby, I knew I'd be in trouble (premeditated thought) and her parents would be furious (premeditated thought), so I looked around for a towel or something to smother her with (premeditated thought), and then I did it.

There's nothing 'innocent' about seeing an injured child, and then murdering them.

I understand what you're saying but would that fly in court? All of those things you say that someone could think (possibly in seconds) could be someone panicking, and not in a normal state of mind. Could just be a reaction.

 

[dsntslp]

Does anybody know if that Conservation Area (Swamp) has a bunch of tree stumps like here in Fl we have Cypress Stumps? Is there anything in that water to prevent navigation and the use of sonar?

 

[BeanE]

I'm not caught up and wish I knew what you're quoting, but...how can LE make a statement about sexual abuse when they haven't found this baby girl to examine her yet?

The same way the prosecutor charged him with 1st degree murder and made a statement that she was murdered by suffocation - without her body having yet been found.

I imagine the guy confessed, they found evidence on the car, found the item he used to suffocate her, they strung him up to a poly, and he passed, leading them to be very confident that his story was true.

But - who knows?

 

[BeanE]

But I still do not get why he would tell the police that he ran her over, butr she was still alive so he suffocated her. Why not just tell the cops she died in the accident? HUGE difference in the punishment between the two situations.

Maybe they were holding evidence in his face - the item he used to suffocate her - and he knew his goose was cooked.

 

[dsntslp]

I am not Sarx, sorry, but I wondered why she hasn't surfaced, too. I think possibly the ditches and water areas they are dragging are pretty muddy on bottom. I was thinking maybe she is stuck on the bottom in mud.

LOL! No worries!
I just used your post to jump off of because we were on the same tract.

ETA: OHhh It WAS Holly Blue's post I jumped off of, lol.

I am tired, obviously.

G'night all.

Prayers that her remains are located tomorrow.
I checked Wunderground and the weather there is supposed to be good the next few days!

G'night.

 

[CarrieBean]

The same way the prosecutor charged him with 1st degree murder and made a statement that she was murdered by suffocation - without her body having yet been found.

I imagine the guy confessed, they found evidence on the car, found the item he used to suffocate her, they strung him up to a poly, and he passed, leading them to be very confident that his story was true.

But - who knows?

Right, but I'm saying that just because there is no evidence of sexual assault doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it would be very hard to prove sexual assault without examining her body.

LE hasn't told the public much of anything up to this point, and they have a perp in custody so I am assuming that they are on top of things and have the evidence to lay the charges that they have.

Any charges laid at this point really don't have anything to do with what has yet to be found.

 

[BeanE]

And if his story is true, why not tell or show LE where he put her?

Maybe they did take him out and he did show them exactly where he put her. It was reported that they are dragging water. Bodies float and move with the movement of the water.

 

[sarx]

There are all kinds of scenarios in terms of water. She could have surfaced and sank back down again. She could be snagged on something. She could have been dropped inside of a bag or suitcase that was waited. She could have surfaced and be an area downstream where nobody saw her. The list goes on and on. Sorry to be so straight forward, sometimes it's just easier to be more clinical and detach a bit for clarity sake.

 

[Nocgirl]

This breaks my heart. I have a 6 yr old girl and a 3 year old boy. I never let them out of my sight for a minute. I am so paranoid of them being snatched especially my son because he is so active, mischevious and will wander off if I'm not watching him. They are never allowed to play in the front yard without anyone out there watching them.

 

[vjlaw]

LOL! No worries!
I just used your post to jump off of because we were on the same tract.

ETA: OHhh It WAS Holly Blue's post I jumped off of, lol.

I am tired, obviously.

G'night all.

Prayers that her remains are located tomorrow.
I checked Wunderground and the weather there is supposed to be good the next few days!

G'night.

lol. On my news this evening, it showed divers in the water. Couldn't tell about tree stumps though.

 

[BeanE]

I've got to set your friend and you straight here. *The number of children who are abducted and murdered by non-family every year is about 100. *Given that there are about 74,000,000 (74 million!!) children between 0 and 17 in the US, your estimate of "only 1% to 2%" is a monumental-titanic exaggeration of epic proportions. *I can't in good conscience let you walk around thinking this way. *

Consider this: . *How many new missing child cases do we follow on here in a week? How many of those turn into non-caregiver-murders (or never recovered). *Two a week? That would work out to be about 100 in a year. *Remember, I'm not talking about all the kids who are murdered by their own parents or step parents or other close person, because keeping them from riding their bikes in the driveway, cul-de-sac, or the whole subdivision, wouldn't prevent those murders anyway. *To quote you, we are talking about kids who go missing and are killed

Okay, so, we've got about 100 out of 74,000,000 that's .000014% of all the kids in the US. *
1% means 1 in 100. *
.000014% means 1 in 7 million, 4 hundred thousand. *Just 1.*

And you would be willing to put your child in a cage to prevent this? *I hope you're exaggerating out of your sense of fear. *I wonder though. *How fearful are you when you drive your child in your vehicle? *I'm sure you use proper and age appropriate safety restraints, like me. * Consider: * About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes. *Are you going to put your son in a cage to prevent him traveling by motor vehicle?

It's worth considering too, in your lifetime, how many people do you personally know who were killed in a car accident? *Now, if you think about it, is it a pretty small number? *Consider then, the likelihood of your son being abducted and murdered. *It's pretty low. *Almost irrelevant, and really irrelevant compared to the risk of riding in a car. It's just rational to try to keep things in perspective.

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.
203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.
58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.
115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2810

 

[BeanE]

I understand what you're saying but would that fly in court? All of those things you say that someone could think (possibly in seconds) could be someone panicking, and not in a normal state of mind. Could just be a reaction.

BBM. The flyability factor at trial of this prosecutor charging this guy with 1st degree murder *and announcing publicly in the media that he murdered her by suffocation* is exactly what is hanging me up.

If he is wrong, he has already lost his case, and this guy walks, and *the prosecutor knows this*.

I was looking up this prosecutor's cases earlier this evening, and he's not green by any means. He's confident for a reason. We just don't know yet what that reason is.

 

[CarrieBean]

Hopefully Breeann will be found soon and her parents can have some answers. Bless them. Too late and upsetting to stay here tonight. This baby girl needs justice.

 

[BeanE]

Right, but I'm saying that just because there is no evidence of sexual assault doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it would be very hard to prove sexual assault without examining her body.

LE hasn't told the public much of anything up to this point, and they have a perp in custody so I am assuming that they are on top of things and have the evidence to lay the charges that they have.

Any charges laid at this point really don't have anything to do with what has yet to be found.

BBM. Agreed. And just because there is no evidence of a fatal gunshot wound, doesn't mean it didn't happen, but this prosecutor is extremely confident of the way this baby died - without her body or a ME exam.

The charges already laid, and the prosecutor's statement about suffocation, have everything to do with what is yet to be found. He's confident. Without a body.

 

[MarthaM]

Question: Wouldn't putting a child in a confined space like a suitcase or something come under 'suffocation'? Just thinking that that's one possibility for which there could be evidence.

I agree..far more likely to ask him to watch them than think he would take them and murder them.

I remember one of the articles from a few days ago quoted someone in the neighborhood as saying that everybody watched out for each others' kids.

ETA again: He charged in a parental kidnapping case with child abduction. Just noting that it caused me to realize we don't have a child abduction or kidnapping charge in Breeann's case. That could be significant.

Reading the definition that was posted for kidnapping, I wonder if there wasn't the 'substantial period' required? If he killed her right away?