MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #11

[Prof]

Here is what has been said about the amount and nature of counseling AB received in the years before the murder

(This is the most detailed and cited article I could find on the topic)

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/19/teenager-indicted-in-slaying-of-9-year-old-girl/

Excerpts from the above link:

"David Cook, a Cole County juvenile officer, testified yesterday that, after reading notes and analysis by Bustamante’s therapists, he is not much closer to figuring out a motive for the alleged crime. 'There may not be a definite diagnosis,' he said yesterday in the juvenile hearing."

[Cook] "said Bustamante is described in the documents as a troubled, angst-ridden teen, but not extraordinarily so. Her family life was less than ideal."

"In 2007, Cook said, Bustamante attempted suicide, prompting a 10-day stay at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center. Follow-up treatment included a prescription for the anti-depressant Prozac and near-daily meetings with counselors. The treatment was primarily focused on her tendencies toward depression and self-mutilation — not her potential for homicidal tendencies, said Cook and Kurt Valentine, her juvenile court counsel."


"A standardized test designed to evaluate Bustamante’s state of mind administered before Elizabeth Olten was killed determined that her risk for self-harm was 'mild' and her tendency toward moodiness was 'moderate.'"

BBM

I guess they need to revamp their tests

 

[Gray]

I don't know much about the psychiatric world, but do they delve that far into their clients lives? Or is it over once the patient walks out the door?

I don't know if a psychiatrist or other doctor would search out online accounts if the patient did not mention them. She could have hidden it from them, right?

 

[Gray]

I agree with you that its better to be nice than mean & in that spirit I want to suggest in question form was O.J. Simpson’s murder trial a good example of a high profile ("so public") case receiving justice?

Me thinks that by us writing about the case here at W/S that it has the potential in a positive way to influence it, or at least influence us.

I’m not so sure “that no one wins in this situation.” God as I understand Him works in mysterious ways. Maybe down the road some laws will be adjusted or made to make the system work better, or because someone is involved in this case other doors open that may not have existed if their was no case…. I can go on & on, hope you catch my drift & I didn’t sound mean in trying to convey it.

Your post looks & sounds poetic, I like it.

Peace be with you

Good point, in regards to OJ. I haven't really read into his case too much but I do know the general consensus was that the trial was a joke. Was money an influence in his case?

And yes, I hope that something good will result from this, even if it only means better screening for juvenile psych patients.

Thank you.

 

[human]

In my area, there are not enough mental health professionals to go around. People have to wait several months to get their child in to see one.

And who's going to pay for it? It seems like this country is not willing to pay for much in terms of human services. I think some insurance policies don't even pay for mental health.

We say that we are a "Christian" nation, but we are not willing to take care of the "least among us". That's some Biblical quote.I guess Hummers and digital TV are more important.

 

[Deleted member 718]

"Then she went to the hospital for a while and they sent her to a psych ward for a while," Meyer said. "I know she was away from school for like two or three months."

cbsnews.

Mr Cook says she had a ten day stay at the Mid Missouri Mental Health Center but then her friend says she missed school for months. I wonder if she was home schooled or allowed to do her school work from home. Somehow she remains a good student on track with her peers.

How could her daily counselors miss those cuts on her wrists?

 

[Deleted member 718]

Human, I wonder if AB received a SSI disability. I'm thinking she would qualify. And also the situation for the younger siblings; if MB and CB deserting them would mean they qualify for SSI also.


Does anyone know about SSI payments? If a grandparent acts as guardian, do they receive the SSI payment?

 

[lajr56]

Human, I wonder if AB received a SSI disability. I'm thinking she would qualify. And also the situation for the younger siblings; if MB and CB deserting them would mean they qualify for SSI also.


Does anyone know about SSI payments? If a grandparent acts as guardian, do they receive the SSI payment?

I am totally sure, but I think it is based on income. I applied for my disabled daughter once on the advice of her therapists and doctors, but we did not qualify.

 

[human]

I think there are limits of income to SSI. The grandparents would not qualify to receive them.

IIRC they are guardians. They may get some money from their county for taking care of the children as guardians. I don't know ANYTHING about that topic at all.

IN order to get SSI, the children would have to have a diagnosed disability. It doesn't seem like the other children would, but we have not heard anything about them. WE don't know if AB has a diagnosed disability that would qualify her for SSI.

 

[lajr56]

In my area, there are not enough mental health professionals to go around. People have to wait several months to get their child in to see one.

And who's going to pay for it? It seems like this country is not willing to pay for much in terms of human services. I think some insurance policies don't even pay for mental health.

We say that we are a "Christian" nation, but we are not willing to take care of the "least among us". That's some Biblical quote.I guess Hummers and digital TV are more important.

Sadly, as you state, I think this is probably true in most of the country. However, I wonder if AB was bumped up in line because of the immediacy, given there was a suicide attempt. I don't know that for sure, just wondering.

 

[lajr56]

I don't know much about the psychiatric world, but do they delve that far into their clients lives? Or is it over once the patient walks out the door?

I don't know if a psychiatrist or other doctor would search out online accounts if the patient did not mention them. She could have hidden it from them, right?

Yeah, I don't think the mental health professionals would have had access to that stuff. I will forever wonder, however, why her guardians did not police that better. It seems like at opportunity at prevention (if possible) was missed by not knowing what she was doing on the internet. Sad

I know as a parent, if I saw that my child had posted things like AB did, I would have been mortified. Especially given the previous suicide attempt and the cutting.

 

[human]

Yeah, I don't think the mental health professionals would have had access to that stuff. I will forever wonder, however, why her guardians did not police that better. It seems like at opportunity at prevention (if possible) was missed by not knowing what she was doing on the internet. Sad

I know as a parent, if I saw that my child had posted things like AB did, I would have been mortified. Especially given the previous suicide attempt and the cutting.[/QUOTE

One of the problems is that there are so many privacy laws. They are good in so many ways and they cause so many problems, too. I don't know if anyone would have access to her computer.

It seems like the step GP might be computer savvy because of his job, but he was away a lot.

They probably needed a computer for her to do school work, reports, etc. Unless they were standing right over her, they probably wouldn't know what she was doing. I don't know who would have the time to monitor her 24/7.

Who knows? Maybe she did her posting from a friend's house and they did monitor her closely. I don't think you can do MS from a school, but I'm not too sure about that.

 

[lajr56]

Human, I understand that. I really do. However, maybe I am just over protective (or just mean, depending on if you talk to my son or me LOL). I have stated this earlier in the thread, but I will say it again. We have a rule in my house. I know ALL passwords. He knows that at any given time, I will be scanning his accounts. If at any time, I cannot access an account because of a password change, privilege revoked. Period. I pay for the computer and the internet access. This gives me that right. It is not a democracy.

We have periodic talks about why I insist on this. It mostly because of predators on the internet. Although, from what I have learned from following this case, there seems to be even more reason to do it. He seems to understand. Now, my son is younger than AB, granted and things may change. In the future, he may try to sneak something by here and there.

But in AB's case, there was not just one account that was frightening. There were MANY. This leads me to believe that her guardians did not worry too much about it. I bet you a nickel, now that they are seeing what the rest of us are seeing, their hearts are full of regret. Many, many warning signs right under their noses. IMO

 

[human]

I don't have any kids at home since I've had a computer. They are all grown ups. So I never have had to deal with teens or kids and computers.

I think that I would be exactly like you are lajr56 if I had kids. My friend always told her kids that she was a parent and her job was to be the parent; that is why she did whatever that her kids objected to. I always thought that was a great thing to say.

Hub and I were pretty strict, but not overly so. They think we were pretty good parents, now, I think although ,they have revealed some of the things they did we never ever dreamed they would do.

Like my 13 year old daughter taking our stick shift car into town and picking up her friends and driving around while we were gone for a few hours. If she had been caught, I'm sure we would have made the front page as loser parents.

 

[Prof]

Human and Lajr56 and all,

Once we knew AB's name it was easy to see all of the accounts she had on the internet -- all a parent or guardian has to do is a few simple searches on Google and follow the trail -- Of course it is also likely we have not found all of AB's postings

I remember you posting your house rule before Lajr56, and I applaud your parenting; I think all parents should monitor and control their children's internet use --that's just part of the parents' job


IDK but if I saw that fake stabbing pic, I would not only make sure the internet sites were off limits indefinately, but the cameras and more importantly all knives -- I am amazed that pic was on FB -- seems worse than sexting IMO

 

[Prof]

The article that I posted the link to earlier had a statement about the gps being very strict and structured -- hmmn maybe

 

[Prof]

The article that I posted the link to earlier had a statement about the gps being very strict and structured -- hmmn maybe

 

[lajr56]

I don't have any kids at home since I've had a computer. They are all grown ups. So I never have had to deal with teens or kids and computers.

I think that I would be exactly like you are lajr56 if I had kids. My friend always told her kids that she was a parent and her job was to be the parent; that is why she did whatever that her kids objected to. I always thought that was a great thing to say.

Hub and I were pretty strict, but not overly so. They think we were pretty good parents, now, I think although ,they have revealed some of the things they did we never ever dreamed they would do.

Like my 13 year old daughter taking our stick shift car into town and picking up her friends and driving around while we were gone for a few hours. If she had been caught, I'm sure we would have made the front page as loser parents.

Human, I have a pre-teen. I know it's coming. And I am bracing for it....:banghead:

Pray for me!! raying:

 

[human]

The article that I posted the link to earlier had a statement about the gps being very strict and structured -- hmmn maybe

Kind of strange, no? Seems like a lot of unstructured, unsupervised time, to me.

 

[lajr56]

The article that I posted the link to earlier had a statement about the gps being very strict and structured -- hmmn maybe

Yep. Perhaps, when they took the privileges away (cell phone, computers, etc) they would have snooped into her accounts, instead of just taking away the 'hardware'. Not saying it would have made a difference, but now we will never know. I bet they wish they had snooped, though.

 

[MDATCA]

Even if the GP's didn't snoop I would think that RP or KNP would have. To be honest I snoop on people I know when I am bored. I know others who do that also. I really don't care because I have nothing to hide.

Do you eve snoop on people? IMO there wouldn't be all those people finder sites and have that much info on them if people didn't snoop. Obviously there is money to be made by the companies that provide the services.