MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #11

[PAXIMUS]

I accidently landed on some flaming by following another link here and I am not going to make the same mistake again, but thanks for the warning -- I actually try to avoid commenting until I can comment on topic and on things we DO KNOW about this case -- and yes, there are not many reliable sources at all and not really any "facts" that have one incarnation except that AB did commit this crime

Most of my posting on this case has been in an effort to find answers to my questions about the adults involved in this case, and I know that it is futile-- as AB is going to be tried as an adult -- and I guess that waives all responsiblity for the adults responsible for this child

but here I go again---

I want to know why a 7 and 9 year old were virtually unsupervised for hours
I want to know why a mentally unstable 15 year old was left unsupervised for hours
I want to know how there were possibly 4 adults at the residence from where Elizabeth went missing at the time she went missing
I want to know how a crime like this could have happened at a home where adults were paid to watch children
I want to know how no adults knew of AB's internet postings
I want to know why her therapists or counselors did not know she carried a knife and posted pictures on Facebook of her fake stabbing another child
I want to know why a JOURNALISM teacher and director of the HS newspaper just happened to commit suicide the morning before the school authorities called an emergency meeting on this case

okay I'll stop

GOOD QUESTIONS PROF and they all deserve answers. I wish I had them!

Can you link me to the story of the two suicides by school officials.

Who was being PAID to watch Liz?

 

[MDATCA]

I accidently landed on some flaming by following another link here and I am not going to make the same mistake again, but thanks for the warning -- I actually try to avoid commenting until I can comment on topic and on things we DO KNOW about this case -- and yes, there are not many reliable sources at all and not really any "facts" that have one incarnation except that AB did commit this crime

Most of my posting on this case has been in an effort to find answers to my questions about the adults involved in this case, and I know that it is futile-- as AB is going to be tried as an adult -- and I guess that waives all responsiblity for the adults responsible for this child

but here I go again---

I want to know why a 7 and 9 year old were virtually unsupervised for hours
I want to know why a mentally unstable 15 year old was left unsupervised for hours
I want to know how there were possibly 4 adults at the residence from where Elizabeth went missing at the time she went missing
I want to know how a crime like this could have happened at a home where adults were paid to watch children
I want to know how no adults knew of AB's internet postings
I want to know why her therapists or counselors did not know she carried a knife and posted pictures on Facebook of her fake stabbing another child
I want to know why a JOURNALISM teacher and director of the HS newspaper just happened to commit suicide the morning before the school authorities called an emergency meeting on this case

okay I'll stop

All very good questions that many want answers to. Until then all we can do is speculate and search for answers. It doesn't help that the media is making up stories because there is nothing being put out from credible sources. Hopefully we will have a little more credible info when there is the hearing in December.

 

[vjlaw]

I accidently landed on some flaming by following another link here and I am not going to make the same mistake again, but thanks for the warning -- I actually try to avoid commenting until I can comment on topic and on things we DO KNOW about this case -- and yes, there are not many reliable sources at all and not really any "facts" that have one incarnation except that AB did commit this crime

Most of my posting on this case has been in an effort to find answers to my questions about the adults involved in this case, and I know that it is futile-- as AB is going to be tried as an adult -- and I guess that waives all responsiblity for the adults responsible for this child

but here I go again---

I want to know why a 7 and 9 year old were virtually unsupervised for hours
I want to know why a mentally unstable 15 year old was left unsupervised for hours
I want to know how there were possibly 4 adults at the residence from where Elizabeth went missing at the time she went missing
I want to know how a crime like this could have happened at a home where adults were paid to watch children
I want to know how no adults knew of AB's internet postings
I want to know why her therapists or counselors did not know she carried a knife and posted pictures on Facebook of her fake stabbing another child
I want to know why a JOURNALISM teacher and director of the HS newspaper just happened to commit suicide the morning before the school authorities called an emergency meeting on this case

okay I'll stop

So, if you think all this happened are you asking why EO's mom would let her go there to be unsupervised?

 

[droptoplesabre]

I accidently landed on some flaming by following another link here and I am not going to make the same mistake again, but thanks for the warning -- I actually try to avoid commenting until I can comment on topic and on things we DO KNOW about this case -- and yes, there are not many reliable sources at all and not really any "facts" that have one incarnation except that AB did commit this crime

Most of my posting on this case has been in an effort to find answers to my questions about the adults involved in this case, and I know that it is futile-- as AB is going to be tried as an adult -- and I guess that waives all responsiblity for the adults responsible for this child

but here I go again---

I want to know why a 7 and 9 year old were virtually unsupervised for hours
I want to know why a mentally unstable 15 year old was left unsupervised for hours
I want to know how there were possibly 4 adults at the residence from where Elizabeth went missing at the time she went missing
I want to know how a crime like this could have happened at a home where adults were paid to watch children
I want to know how no adults knew of AB's internet postings
I want to know why her therapists or counselors did not know she carried a knife and posted pictures on Facebook of her fake stabbing another child
I want to know why a JOURNALISM teacher and director of the HS newspaper just happened to commit suicide the morning before the school authorities called an emergency meeting on this case

okay I'll stop

as was said,,all good questions,,but i fear we will not get any answers untill a trial is held,,IMO the prosicution,as well as defence,will want to keep all information "secret" untill the trial,so as to "not comprimise" any defence or prosicuting in this case,,correct me if i'm wrong, but i think i read somewhere,or seen on TV that they couldnt release any evidence or information? i'm not sure,,but it seems i did..and i dont remember what their reason was,,but that just seems to me that this is only reason i myself could come up with.

 

[Prof]

Paximus -- Sorry, there was only one teacher who was the journalism teacher/director of school paper-- Let me pull up the links to the stories of his suicide -- there has been a lot of speculation and then some "insider" talk about the suicide being related -- I was just struck on the day that it happened by the message he seemed to be sending (IMO) --- my question to him is "why would you do this when your students need you the most?" and I have many other questions about timing

Nobody was being paid to watch Liz, but the gm was operating a child care service at the time

VJlaw -- we all asked that question the day Elizabeth went missing -- and yes I still wonder about that, because we do not know her mother's real story about the series of events that day (I have heard so many different accounts,--none actually from her), but I do not wonder about Elizabeth's mother as much -- I suppose because Elizabeth did not do anything wrong that I know of

 

[akashana]

GOOD QUESTIONS PROF and they all deserve answers. I wish I had them!

Can you link me to the story of the two suicides by school officials.

Who was being PAID to watch Liz?

MY BOLD

There was only one suicide; the journalism teacher was the HS newspaper director. He also had terminal cancer and had allegedly taken a turn for the worse, so while the timing of the suicide is speculative and coincidental, it is likely unrelated, IMHO.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Why bother to ask about her facebook/myspace pages...guess it was Allyssa's constitutional "right" to have those horrid pictures up there?

I don't know about the suicide...big coincidence or??

I have not seen any reason to suspect poor Elizabeth or her parent's of anything..
my guess is the grandparents were not exactly announcing the troubles of Allyssa
and of course it has been stated by various people that she presented a pretty nice exterior...."she was nice"...she had good grades and was not in trouble in school, etc

 

[LogicalMinds]

MY BOLD

There was only one suicide; the journalism teacher was the HS newspaper director. He also had terminal cancer and had allegedly taken a turn for the worse, so while the timing of the suicide is speculative and coincidental, it is likely unrelated, IMHO.

Thank you for that insight.

 

[vjlaw]

Paximus -- Sorry, there was only one teacher who was the journalism teacher/director of school paper-- Let me pull up the links to the stories of his suicide -- there has been a lot of speculation and then some "insider" talk about the suicide being related -- I was just struck on the day that it happened by the message he seemed to be sending (IMO) --- my question to him is "why would you do this when your students need you the most?" and I have many other questions about timing

Nobody was being paid to watch Liz, but the gm was operating a child care service at the time

VJlaw -- we all asked that question the day Elizabeth went missing -- and yes I still wonder about that, because we do not know her mother's real story about the series of events that day (I have heard so many different accounts,--none actually from her), but I do not wonder about Elizabeth's mother as much -- I suppose because Elizabeth did not do anything wrong that I know of

I think if all those questions about supervision are answered the way you think, then the question I asked about EO mom has to be asked. Of course, Elizabeth did nothing wrong. But all parents have to take the responsibility to find out where there kids are going. Just like all the questions on forums about the parents of kids on the internet.

 

[Prof]

GOOD QUESTIONS PROF and they all deserve answers. I wish I had them!

Can you link me to the story of the two suicides by school officials.

Here are a few articles about -- the middle link briefly mentions the rumor on the blogosphere regarding the connection to Elizabeth's case
Bill Currie
http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/28/news_local/065local15currieremembered09.txt
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=378610
http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/29/news_local/063local11currie09.txt

 

[Prof]

Why bother to ask about her facebook/myspace pages...guess it was Allyssa's constitutional "right" to have those horrid pictures up there?

Good question: I bothered to ask about her postings on Facebook and all over the internet, not in any reference to censorship or free speech rights, but in reference to how Alyssa could have (as some people here have stated in mutliple posts) had "2 hours of therapy a day" and still have public profiles all over the internet that show disturbing pics, videos, and hobbies all on the theme of "killing people"; AND I ask because if she really had that much "help" why did this "help" not have any clue to her homicidal tendencies-- if she had that much "help" what is the point in that kind of "help" at all? -- I mean did her therapy to help her through her suicidal thoughts leave her with homicidal thoughts? Did she leave therapy every day and then go to her friends and the internet and talk about killing people? did she leave therapy one day and then run out and try to electrocute her little brothers? Did she leave therapy October 21st to go out and murder a child -- all in a few hours just after school? --this girl was screaming for help and nobody seemed to be listening--

 

[danni]

In trial it seems to me the killer has more rights than the victim. Everyone is so careful that the killers rights aren't walked on...it just irks me. Personally I believe the whole judicial system needs to be revamped. I'm tired of seeing the murderers butts kissed in every case.
To my mind there is right and there is wrong. It is wrong to have a tribute to a 15 yr old killer on the internet. Add a killer of any age. Leave that tribute up and if down the line the person who made the tribute commits a horrible crime because she also wanted to see what it would be like to kill another person...everyone and their uncle including LE,UTube, and us will be shaking their heads and saying "why was such a horrible tribule left up" or "how could we have missed where this kid was headed" whine whine. Right now is the time to step forward and contact UTube. I think LE and the parents should be checking out the kids that think that tribute is cool. She/He might be your neighbor and you aren't even aware of it.

BBM!
Let me go one step further and say that the butt kissing does not end when the trial ends. The butt kissing contenues while they are in prison! Then when a criminal gets out of prison it still contenues because they complain that they have no skills they don't have medical care, they don't have this and they don't have that!

If and when this girl with the video on youtube ever commits a murder or crime such as Alyssa did the defense attorney will have it removed right away just like Alyssa's attorney had her channel removed you know the one where she listed "killing people and cutting" as her hobbies. then they will say oh it was just a video, she was expressing right to free speach, or maybe they will use the defense "the system failed her"!

 

[danni]

Good question: I bothered to ask about her postings on Facebook and all over the internet, not in any reference to censorship or free speech rights, but in reference to how Alyssa could have (as some people here have stated in mutliple posts) had "2 hours of therapy a day" and still have public profiles all over the internet that show disturbing pics, videos, and hobbies all on the theme of "killing people"; AND I ask because if she really had that much "help" why did this "help" not have any clue to her homicidal tendencies-- if she had that much "help" what is the point in that kind of "help" at all? -- I mean did her therapy to help her through her suicidal thoughts leave her with homicidal thoughts? Did she leave therapy every day and then go to her friends and the internet and talk about killing people? did she leave therapy one day and then run out and try to electrocute her little brothers? Did she leave therapy October 21st to go out and murder a child -- all in a few hours just after school? --this girl was screaming for help and nobody seemed to be listening--

Maybe her therapist didn't want to invade her right to free speach! So they didn't take a look at her public networking sites!

ETA: Just so everyone knows I was being VERY sarcastic when this was wrote!

 

[human]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to praise and admire whoever they wish, to believe in whatever faith they like, and to speak about it publicly. That is what our freedoms allow us. One sided? It seems to me that condemning someone's opinion is what's really one-sided.

As for the prayer in school thing, I would love to have that conversation with you, but it is far OT for this thread.

The religion thing is because I ,for one, don't want to live in Iran with their state religion or the US of A with a state religion , either. Neither did the writes of the Constitution.

But if someone's writings incite someone to do a crime, isn't that some kind of crime as well? We don't have total freedom of speech here-hate speech, yelling "fire" in a theater come to mind.

 

[human]

BBM

What would LE do? could you please point me to the federal statutory provision that makes it a crime to make a youtube video that portrays alleged criminals in a positive light?

youtube is a business. Ebay is a business. Ebay does not allow anyone to sell Nazi stuff on Ebay among other things.

youtube can make whatever policies they want as long as they aren't illegal.

 

[bigflaw]

The religion thing is because I ,for one, don't want to live in Iran with their state religion or the US of A with a state religion , either. Neither did the writes of the Constitution.

But if someone's writings incite someone to do a crime, isn't that some kind of crime as well? We don't have total freedom of speech here-hate speech, yelling "fire" in a theater come to mind.

Yes, inciting a riot is not protected speech, nor would that be "opinion". That would be more like a "request." Does this girl's video ask anyone to kill anyone? Right, then. So let's move on.

 

[bigflaw]

youtube is a business. Ebay is a business. Ebay does not allow anyone to sell Nazi stuff on Ebay among other things.

youtube can make whatever policies they want as long as they aren't illegal.

REALLY?!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=wwII+german&_sacat=See-All-Categories
ORIGINAL WW2 GERMAN PANZER TANK ASSAULT BADGE MEDAL

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=sw...d=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=iron+cross&_osacat=0
RARE!!!! Old German Army Coin W/Swastica Luftwaffe CO

 

[droptoplesabre]

Maybe her therapist didn't want to invade her right to free speach! So they didn't take a look at her public networking sites!

freedom of speach,,here we go again..IMHO.......freedom in itself has went out the window..on one side ya got these people screamin one thing,and on the other ya got some screamin the opisite,,where do ya draw the line..whats right,and what aint..what this country is coming to nowdays is a tragic end as far as i know,,if someone slaps someone else,,the second person can say,"it was a ""hate"" crime" therefore,it is,,according to what i seen on CBS news..cant reemember what day that was..i also heard it on mancow (now thats ghonna cause a ruckus), but anyway,,where are we goin folks?? down hill!!!!it almost makes me wanna go to the amazon and live off the land,,like my grandpa did in the 18 hundreds.
oh yea,danni,,sorry i didnt respond to the "idiot" thing,,that was a good 1,,i didnt get back on till today,,but i would ((well,,maybe)) offer my services,,but my luck,,i wouldnt get bailed out n i'd have to spend my whole life in morgan county jail..or atleast till they kicked me out

 

[human]

Yes, inciting a riot is not protected speech, nor would that be "opinion". That would be more like a "request." Does this girl's video ask anyone to kill anyone? Right, then. So let's move on.

Just responding to the blanket remarks that we have free speech. We have limitations.

 

[human]

REALLY?!

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=wwII+german&_sacat=See-All-Categories
ORIGINAL WW2 GERMAN PANZER TANK ASSAULT BADGE MEDAL

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=sw...d=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=iron+cross&_osacat=0
RARE!!!! Old German Army Coin W/Swastica Luftwaffe CO

someone will be reporting those and they will be gone. Unless Ebay has changed their policies, they do not allow it. Read their policies.