MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[PAXIMUS]

If LE made arrangements for AB to be questioned, I'd assume they would have had to set that up with her GP's. And I would assume that since they knew their granddaughter was going to be questioned.. they would have gotten an attorney. These people have had dealings with the law before. (Daughter in Jail numerous times, son in law in jail..) I highly doubt that they are ignorant as to what it means when they ask to question your 15 year old grand daughter when the neighbor girl is missing.

oh yeah.. imo.

Well I am not much of a sleuther on here as some of you are, so why dont one of you who are local or whatever try and find out for us if she had an atty present during that confession. And if she did I am going to personally contact that atty this week and ask them why they allowed her to say what she said without putting a quick end to ABs ignorance.

I am a member of the press as well as other things and will use my press credentials to get some answers about this because I dont like it one bit, it all smells terrible.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I think it is only a rumor (ILC I think) that they planned on Thursday to question her on Friday, and I believe that contradicts what Sheriff White stated in his press conference on Friday morning at 10 am -- he held TWO press conferences Friday -- in the morning at 10 am and then at 3 pm when he announced the arrest

The 13 minute video of the Sheriff's press conference Friday at 10 am can be found here:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/content.aspx?id=366922

This story about the press conference (briefly) was posted just before 1 pm on Friday
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366995

I believe somewhere (maybe in the 3 pm presser) he stated that after the presser that Friday morning he received the information that led to the arrest -- at least that is my memory

I am not sure what is true -- the ILC rumor, or what the Sheriff sad -- sadly

If in fact they set up the AB interview on Thursday for Friday, I seriously do not believe that they knew enough to tell her to have an attorney present

I am going to try to find the link to the 3 pm Friday presser

If what you say is correct and it sounds as if it is then she had no atty present during that confession so bye bye confession and all remarks about wanting to kill people.

 

[vjlaw]

Well I am not much of a sleuther on here as some of you are, so why dont one of you who are local or whatever try and find out for us if she had an atty present during that confession. And if she did I am going to personally contact that atty this week and ask them why they allowed her to say what she said without putting a quick end to ABs ignorance.

I am a member of the press as well as other things and will use my press credentials to get some answers about this because I dont like it one bit, it all smells terrible.

Wouldn't her public defender know that? Couldn't you find out from him? Isn't the purpose of the jurvenile officer to make sure she was being protected as a juvenile? I am pretty sure there was testimony that the grandmother and a juvenile officer were present.

 

[Csquare]

I think it is only a rumor (ILC I think) that they planned on Thursday to question her on Friday, and I believe that contradicts what Sheriff White stated in his press conference on Friday morning at 10 am -- he held TWO press conferences Friday -- in the morning at 10 am and then at 3 pm when he announced the arrest

The 13 minute video of the Sheriff's press conference Friday at 10 am can be found here:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/content.aspx?id=366922

This story about the press conference (briefly) was posted just before 1 pm on Friday
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366995

I believe somewhere (maybe in the 3 pm presser) he stated that after the presser that Friday morning he received the information that led to the arrest -- at least that is my memory

I am not sure what is true -- the ILC rumor, or what the Sheriff sad -- sadly

If in fact they set up the AB interview on Thursday for Friday, I seriously do not believe that they knew enough to tell her to have an attorney present

I am going to try to find the link to the 3 pm Friday presser

Thanks for the rescue Prof. I think that comment came from ILC. Not sure but that is my recolection.

 

[Csquare]

Yes they cannot stop them but I am certain if she had an atty tell her not to talk she would listen, she isnt stupid and seems very street wise to me. My only conclusion is that GP were there with her and they gave permission to speak to AB and the cops pressered her in to confessing and if thats the case it will be tossed, better be. Thats the kind of crap that really pisses me off when LE takes advantage of a situation like that because people are ignorant and dont understand the consequences of talking to LE without an atty present.

That is why they have Miranda rights. Does LE do that kind of stuff. Very SELDOM. LE are not stupid people. They do their job and do them well.

 

[danni]

What happened to if you do something wrong (even if it is freaking murder) you admit what you did wrong and you take the punishment you are given?
I don't get it! Maybe thats why I am not a criminal because I could not lie about something that I know damn good and well I did!

 

[LadyRider]

WOW!!! I am stunned!! I thank you attorneys for the legal information, but have some really mixed feelings.

One question I have, would this not have been brought up at the certification hearing or been a part of it. Wouldn't her attorney Kurt Valentine have brought this up then?

 

[Prof]

If they held a press conf. at 10, talked to her per the already planned interview after that, then they got the confession during that interview and arrestered her at that time, then she took them to the body, and they held a 3:00 PC. it would make total sense!

But that is not what happened as far as I can tell --
IMO they had not received this written evidence until Friday after the press conference

As the Sheriff said they received the written evidence after the 10 am press conference on Friday

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283
"The break in the case came just after Friday's 10 a.m. press conference. That's when authorities received a hand-written note that led them to the 15-year-old suspect; the teen than lead authorities to Elizabeth's body."

Maybe they did arrange to talk to AB as a matter of questioning everyone around the area that day; it might be true that they had her on the list of people to interview and just had not been able to yet- why would they think she might need an attorney? Did they tell everyone they interviewed that they should have an attorney present?

The 10 am presser did not give me the impression that the Sheriff had any reason to suspect anyone at that point

All my speculation, but I think there is a good chance that she did not have an attorney--and that only her gm was present, a gm who did not hire her an attorney (AB has a public defender now) btw

 

[Csquare]

But that is not what happened as far as I can tell --
IMO they had not received this written evidence until Friday after the press conference

As the Sheriff said they received the written evidence after the 10 am press conference on Friday

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283
"The break in the case came just after Friday's 10 a.m. press conference. That's when authorities received a hand-written note that led them to the 15-year-old suspect; the teen than lead authorities to Elizabeth's body."

Maybe they did arrange to talk to AB as a matter of questioning everyone around the area that day; it might be true that they had her on the list of people to interview and just had not been able to yet- why would they think she might need an attorney? Did they tell everyone they interviewed that they should have an attorney present?

The 10 am presser did not give me the impression that the Sherrif had any reason to suspect anyone at that point

All my speculation, but I think there is a good chance that she did not have an attorney--and that only her gm was present, a gm who did not hire her an attorney (AB has a public defender now) btw

I can tell you this for a fact. EO's mother recieved a phone call Thursday night about something. The next day all this went down. I am not sure what to make of this though. EO's mom did not and would not say who the call was from but it was obvious she was concerned.

 

[Prof]

IMO Pax is here for the same reasons we are all here -- I see no attempts on his or her part to "rile" I am thankful for the information and posts of all -- I think arguing or disagreeing is allowed if done so without making it personal - I do not always agree with opinions here, but I just offer up my alternative opinion -- I remind my students all the time that we must agree to disagree agreeably

 

[PAXIMUS]

you both are welcome. I am going to just ignore him and let it go. He obvisiouly is only here to get people rilled up and fighting. Ignore him and he can't accomplish this.

Thats untrue and I take that as a personal attack. I am stating my opinion and trying to find out if she was represented, how is that a problem for you?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I do not think that is what Paximus is saying. She may have said things before her Miranda Rights were read. Then being a young 15 year old, agreed to talk after MR were read. Then LE has the opportunity to put words in her mouth, intentional or not.
This would make a huge difference on whether she is tried as an adult or juvenile , gets proper medical help or is thrown to the wolves.

Thank you very much my friend that is EXACTLY what concerns me.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

I would like to think that we are all here for the same reasons. And that reason is to bring Elizabeth Olten's killer to justice. When this first started, we started out with the normal, OMG, how horrible, I can't believe this happened, and as we learned the little bit of facts that we have, our minds started to try to work on figuring out the who's and what's and why's. We had AB's name before it was released to the press.. how?? Because being the great sleuths that we are, we found it. Like playing clue, we put the pieces together until they fit. We have gone over almost every scenario possible as to why.. or how.. and the more we learned the more horrified we became. People have come in here trying to throw everyone off track, throwing out meaningless clues, and saying things that were completely wrong. But everyone worked through it, just as we will keep working until the day that AB is in jail for what she did. We'll work through the trial, as more info is given to us, and we'll continue to work through every appeal that will be made. Why? Because we fight for justice. Many great relationships are forged through cases such as Elizabeth's. And I hate to see the bickering going on in this thread nearly everyday. Yesterday it's because someone was looking at a public blog.. today.. someone wants to contact a lawyer.. It needs to stop and we need to come together to bring Alyssa Bustamante to justice for Elizabeth Olten's murder.

/rant imo.

PS sorry for the post. need to get this off my chest.

 

[PAXIMUS]

IMO Pax is here for the same reasons we are all here -- I see no attempts on his or her part to "rile" I am thankful for the information and posts of all -- I think arguing or disagreeing is allowed if done so without making it personal - I do not always agree with opinions here, but I just offer up my alternative opinion -- I remind my students all the time that we must agree to disagree agreeably

I appreciate the support prof you have been fair all along and provide excellent info and so does CSQUARE but obviously her and I dont see eye to eye on anything and that is ok but her calling me a troll is a problem, thats an attack on me personally.

Lets move on.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Paximus, before you contact anyone's lawyer, I suggest you speak with Tricia regarding this and whether it is against TOS or not.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Lets just say that when the trial comes and the case stands just remember who knew what they were talking about and who didn't. I will no longer respond to him or anyone who defends his actions. Thank you

The trial may very well stand but this is a discussion forum and we are all bringing up issues as we see them, my issue at this time is whether AB had proper representation and parental consent as a minor when LE questioned her, if she did not then LE broke the law and that is not something I am able to take lightly.

I have NO PERSONAL problem with you at all Csquare and I appreciate your opinion I wish you would do the same for me.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Paximus, before you contact anyone's lawyer, I suggest you speak with Tricia regarding this and whether it is against TOS or not.

I am sure I can contact any lawyer I want to, its a matter of public record, this case is public and I can ask questions of all parties involved if I am able to get ahold of them.

I have spoken to Tricia on the phone she knows me and who I am. I am not going to accuse anyone of anything I just want to know if AB was represented during her confession, its a very simple question that is a matter of public record, I will not be contacting anyone as a representive of this forum, I represent by own free lance writing business and can use my credentials to contact anyone I wish if they will take my calls.

 

[vjlaw]

Well, I am still curious about the juvenile officer. What is his/her responsibility in something like this?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I am going to take a break from this thread and let things settle down I dont want anyone getting time outs or banned, lets continue this once we have all settled down a bit but please understand csquare I do enjoy and appreciate that we have differences of opinion and that is ok and perfectly healthy lets just go with it and let it be what it is.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Well, I am still curious about the juvenile officer. What is his/her responsibility in something like this?

I would think that a juvenile officer is no different than a regular LEO, they just handle juveniles.. I may be wrong.. we don't have anything like that here in NY. Cops are Cops here.. kwim?