MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

[Prof]

Haha, you're sure your PC isn't breeding, right?

I'm missing my Z key....my cat ate it. For real.

LOL the amount of time I spend nline: at home, I don't think there has been any hankypanky going on anywhere in my home --

and I have heard plenty of the dog excuses (I give an award on the first day of class for the writing the best excuse for missing work), but never the cat! You win! :gold_star:

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Didn't the GPS build the house when they moved here? That should be an indication of when they arrived.. or at least give an "approximate time"

 

[KBL100]

I think this is a good theory, but according to the news reports the gps had guardianship since 2001 and I am fairly sure that they did not move to MO until 2004 or 2005 when they bought the home on Lomo

It is possible that they had guardianship once in CA, and then MB decided to take the kids to MO for a "fresh start" but then the bio dad was charged with assault in 2002, so I do not know when that would have been

Did AB move to MO before the GPs and live with her mother?

I really would like to know more about the gps involvement

I have been wanting to find out how long AB lived in MO

Here's a report on the gps guardianship

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/11/20/news_local/doc5a42local03bustamanteprofile09.prt

Good point. I was trying to figure out why the grandparents moved to MO from CA since ILC made a comment about them moving there for the kids. I don't recall the exact statement from ILC, did he say they had no ties here but moved there for the kids? I too wonder if AB moved to MO with her mom before the gps came and took over.

 

[MDATCA]

I was reading about another case the other day about a grandmother who was concerned about the living conditions of her granddaughter (who lived in another state) and she stated something to the affect that social services told her if the granddaughter had to be removed from the home she would not be sent to live with the grandmother, but put into foster care because they lived in another state. So maybe that is why AB's grandmother had to move to MO to get guardianship of the kids so they wouldn't be put in foster care?

This makes a lot of sense. IMO that is why GPa travels for work. Usually people at the stage in life they were at don't pick up and move halfway across the country unless there is a big reason. Keeping the kids out of foster care would be one.

 

[MDATCA]

I have now received confirmation from two local reporters that the 12/8 hearing IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC "if you can get in". I was told that they expect a lot of people there (however that was not the case last time). So I will be there.

I was surprised when you said the first court hearing was empty. Good for us though.

As a local how much do you think the initial "excitement" has died down? Has the talk and rumors decreased. What does your daughter say about the chatter in school? I remember that some of the locals felt that the schools and local media were kind of downplaying AB and Mr Currie. Has their tactic worked or has his just made rumor mill more active?

 

[LogicalMinds]

Ultimately when this comes to trial (if it even does...they may strike a plea deal) the info on the grandparents etc won't even come into play much IMHO

I think the prosecution has a slam dunk case , and they have little chance of an "insanity defense"

the fact that Allyssa dug the grave/s so far in advance
the "written stuff"....that is very telling
the fact that she clearly tried to "hide" her crime...and did a pretty good job of it
(that alone wipes out an insanity defense as it shows that she knew this was wrong/illegal and she took steps to not get caught)

of course the "dark side"...her statements to her friend etc

and...a factor in the Hernandez trial...her choice of victim based upon convenience...picking on someone "easy to kill" smaller and weaker than herself
and choosing her just to kill "someone" to "see what it feels like"...that is simply cold blooded

this is a clear case of murder one..

mentally ill?? so are a lot of people in prisons....

my guess is that if they take this to trial she is going to prison for life

if they make some sort of plea deal she might be able to serve her time in a mental hospital and maybe get out in 30 or 35 years

Also...why does she have a public defender when the grandparents have a home with a pool, horses etc?? Why aren't they paying for a lawyer??

 

[Prof]

Good point. I was trying to figure out why the grandparents moved to MO from CA since ILC made a comment about them moving there for the kids. I don't recall the exact statement from ILC, did he say they had no ties here but moved there for the kids? I too wonder if AB moved to MO with her mom before the gps came and took over.

I am not sure if ILC said why the gps moved to MO
I did read the aunt's online blog which in a 2008 entry essentially stated that AB did not demonstrate an understanding what herself and her mother (the gm) and the gm's husband had to go through to have AB come to live in their house-- so it makes me wonder how long she did live with them -- the papers state she was under the gm's guardianship since she was 7, so I am confused

 

[Prof]

Didn't the GPS build the house when they moved here? That should be an indication of when they arrived.. or at least give an "approximate time"

No, they built the new house in 2007, but they bought the property in 2004/2005

 

[ynotdivein]

I am not sure if ILC said why the gps moved to MO
I did read the aunt's online blog which in a 2008 entry essentially stated that AB did not demonstrate an understanding what herself and her mother (the gm) and the gm's husband had to go through to have AB come to live in their house-- so it makes me wonder how long she did live with them -- the papers state she was under the gm's guardianship since she was 7, so I am confused

IIRC, AB was living with gp's out here in CA, where she demonstrated solid equestrian skills, and then they moved to MO in the early 2000's? That would be about seven years ago, when gp's got custody--side note, I very clearly remember that her bio parents did not appear at that custody hearing, but her mother provided written consent.

Off to wade through threads in search of factual backup... (Slips down rabbit hole...)

 

[LogicalMinds]

The other thing that I wonder about is...what sort of "therapy" was Allyssa really getting?? she would see a psychiatrist to get meds...but that might be just once a month

some where I think I read that she had therapy daily, and somewhere??? that she had
"2 hours" of therapy every day...which seems odd to me...who could afford that? what insurance would pay for that??

I keep wondering if some of the "therapy" was actually some church based (Mormon) youth group, and/or classes/group etc??

 

[Prof]

IIRC, AB was living with gp's out here in CA, where she demonstrated solid equestrian skills, and then they moved to MO in the early 2000's? That would be about seven years ago, when gp's got custody--side note, I very clearly remember that her bio parents did not appear at that custody hearing, but her mother provided written consent.

Off to wade through threads in search of factual backup... (Slips down rabbit hole...)

LOL @ rabbit hole

"Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California." http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234

I never found this connection to equestrian skills -- are we sure that whomever found this article found the right AB? I know there is another AB in the same area in CA -- a date on that article would be helpful

Oh well I believe her bio dad was in custody at the time of the 2005 MO hearing, and I am not sure that he was on that court record

 

[human]

LOL @ rabbit hole

"Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California." http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234

I never found this connection to equestrian skills -- are we sure that whomever found this article found the right AB? I know there is another AB in the same area in CA -- a date on that article would be helpful

This particular AB was in Hollister. The GMA did live in Hollister, if you can believe the people search engines.

 

[Prof]

The other thing that I wonder about is...what sort of "therapy" was Allyssa really getting?? she would see a psychiatrist to get meds...but that might be just once a month

some where I think I read that she had therapy daily, and somewhere??? that she had
"2 hours" of therapy every day...which seems odd to me...who could afford that? what insurance would pay for that??

I keep wondering if some of the "therapy" was actually some church based (Mormon) youth group, and/or classes/group etc??

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...year-old-girl/

Excerpts from the above link:

"David Cook, a Cole County juvenile officer, testified yesterday that, after reading notes and analysis by Bustamante’s therapists, he is not much closer to figuring out a motive for the alleged crime. 'There may not be a definite diagnosis,' he said yesterday in the juvenile hearing."

[Cook] "said Bustamante is described in the documents as a troubled, angst-ridden teen, but not extraordinarily so. Her family life was less than ideal."

"In 2007, Cook said, Bustamante attempted suicide, prompting a 10-day stay at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center. Follow-up treatment included a prescription for the anti-depressant Prozac and near-daily meetings with counselors. The treatment was primarily focused on her tendencies toward depression and self-mutilation — not her potential for homicidal tendencies, said Cook and Kurt Valentine, her juvenile court counsel."

 

[MDATCA]

I am wondering if MB and CB didn't move to MO and left the kids with KB until they were settled so they got custody in CA so they could take care of the kids. Maybe that time it was a volunteer situation rather than because social services stepped in. The MB and CB kept getting into trouble in MO and the kids were going to get put into foster care so KB, GB and AuntKNP came to the rescue.

 

[Prof]

I am wondering if MB and CB didn't move to MO and left the kids with KB until they were settled so they got custody in CA so they could take care of the kids. Maybe that time it was a volunteer situation rather than because social services stepped in. The MB and CB kept getting into trouble in MO and the kids were going to get put into foster care so KB, GB and AuntKNP came to the rescue.

I am guessing something like that happened, as KB seems to chasing MB around cleaning up in her wake --but

1994 MB has AB with CB*
1998 MB has twin boys with CB*
2002 GM sought guardianship in in CA (NT article)
2002 CB by then had moved to MO as he was charged with assault(Casenet) (rumor is stabbing)
2002 MB has address and phone number records in MO
2003 AB's half sister born --
2004 GB and KB still in CA (property records, and other collaborating accounts)
2005 Lomo property purchased (property records)
2005 MB's record for traffic trouble started (seatbelt violation Casenet) and this was after the gps moved to MO as Lomo address is on court document (Casenet)
2005 GM files in MO for custody (Casenet -- removed or hidden since end of October)
2007 GM files in MO for custody of AB's half sister (bio father listed as respondant)

a few things bother me about this timeline
1 - why would MB just start getting in trouble AFTER her mother moves to MO? (no record IMO may mean she was not in MO before 2005) the bio father had been in trouble 3 years before they moved?
2 - why would there not be a record for MB regarding kids being taken away?
3 - when did the kids move to MO for the gps have to come to their rescue ?(they already had guardianship in CA 2002, and they filed for it in MO in 2005)


I am willing to bet the bio parents did not all of a sudden start getting into trouble --the first of their trouble happened in 1994 --perhaps something happened in CA that caused at least CB to move**, and the gps gain custody in CA

* suggested adds to the timeline from Gliving --(thanks!)

** at least CB and MB were in MO in 2002

 

[Deleted member 718]

Prof, I'm curious about the guardianship filing of the youngest child of MB. Notice the child's initials ELPA? Could MB have had a different last name for some of the time you are searching?

 

[hoppyfrog]

Dear Posters:

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Hoppy
mod

 

[vjlaw]

Prof, I'm curious about the guardianship filing of the youngest child of MB. Notice the child's initials ELPA? Could MB have had a different last name for some of the time you are searching?

Sorry I am not Prof. But I don't believe another last name was involved. The little sis looks to come to be about the time AB bio-dad was getting his assault charge. Think maybe just a fling. Especially since there is no record of him in the gm's custody filing for her. JMO

 

[not_my_kids]

The other thing that I wonder about is...what sort of "therapy" was Allyssa really getting?? she would see a psychiatrist to get meds...but that might be just once a month

some where I think I read that she had therapy daily, and somewhere??? that she had
"2 hours" of therapy every day...which seems odd to me...who could afford that? what insurance would pay for that??

I keep wondering if some of the "therapy" was actually some church based (Mormon) youth group, and/or classes/group etc??

I know this is from last page, but I wanted to weigh in here. Intensive therapy I have experience with. I have never found an insurance plan that will cover daily therapy, whether there is a perceived need or not. As to who could afford that, I have no idea. Furthermore, if she's getting 2 hours of therapy a day, she has to be doing it with different therapists. There are very few therapists that would allow a patient, especially a minor patient, to become that dependent on them. It is an ethical breach, for most.
After a suicide attempt, paired with a crappy home life, I don't see how any therapist would perceive her to be a case worthy of 2 hours of office time a day. She wasn't that different, prior to the point where she killed someone.
The closest I have ever heard to that 2 hour a day figure is one check-in by phone with a therapist once a day, and three times weekly therapy. And that was for a child victim of severe violent trauma, who was non-functional on most every level at the start of therapy.
IMO, if that figure was correct, it was not typical in-office psychiatric counseling, MOO.

 

[vjlaw]

I know this is from last page, but I wanted to weigh in here. Intensive therapy I have experience with. I have never found an insurance plan that will cover daily therapy, whether there is a perceived need or not. As to who could afford that, I have no idea. Furthermore, if she's getting 2 hours of therapy a day, she has to be doing it with different therapists. There are very few therapists that would allow a patient, especially a minor patient, to become that dependent on them. It is an ethical breach, for most.
After a suicide attempt, paired with a crappy home life, I don't see how any therapist would perceive her to be a case worthy of 2 hours of office time a day. She wasn't that different, prior to the point where she killed someone.
The closest I have ever heard to that 2 hour a day figure is one check-in by phone with a therapist once a day, and three times weekly therapy. And that was for a child victim of severe violent trauma, who was non-functional on most every level at the start of therapy.
IMO, if that figure was correct, it was not typical in-office psychiatric counseling, MOO.

I don't believe the juvenile officer testified that it was 2 hrs a day. He just said it was nearly everyday. iirc. And it was through Pathways Behavioral Healthcare. At some point I think it was reported she qualified for intensive inhome therapy. iirc