MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #3

[Animal04216]

This is way out of hand with posters asking others to pm them on this thread. It is against TOS so here is what I am going to do. I am going to warn everyone one last time. If anyone asks for a pm , hoppy will be linking me the post and that poster will be given a 2 week TO.

 

[capoly]

Funeral set for slain 9-year-old Mo. girl


The service for Elizabeth Olten of St. Martins is set for 2 p.m. at Concord Baptist Church in the capital city. Afterward, the casket is to be taken by a horse-drawn hearse for burial at Hawthorn Memorial Gardens.

http://www.bnd.com/336/story/984050.html

It is raining and dismal out East. So (not that it truly matters) am hoping the weather is beautiful in Jefferson City area today for this little Princess in her horse drawn carriage.

Bless you, Elizabeth, and your family.

 

[Bibliophile]

Funeral set for slain 9-year-old Mo. girl
hoping the weather is beautiful in Jefferson City area today for this little Princess in her horse drawn carriage.

The angels heard you. It has been unseasonably rainy and cool here but today is our one break - the forecast today is partly sunny and 64F. The rain returns tomorrow.

 

[Mom2Yaya]

I want to make sure I understand the rumor rules here. I see folks linked to some comments with rumors so I am taking it we are allowed to link to rumors, just not post them (the actual rumors) in this thread? I found those rumors last night, but since we aren't allowed a rumor thread on this topic yet, I didn't post them because I thought we weren't allowed. I'm confused. Can y'all help a newbie out?

Thanks!

 

[CementPond]

This was also posted at the link sdw posted:

Important Information wrote on Oct 27, 2009 11:46 AM:
" " I am a family member who has important information to share:

First I would like everyone to know the family is concentrating on the Love we have for Elizabeth, a time for trial and anger will come but that time is not now.

Second, we feel it is important for everyone to know that it is possible for people (not implying anyone specific) to attempt to anger others on the post for legal reasons

Every time something is said about the case building against the accused, her lawyer is watching and reading. It does affect the case. It could help prove that our community is to Biased to place her infront of a Jury of her peers. " "

 

[VespaElf]

http://newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/27/news_local/067local05potential09.txt

"Specialboy1 wrote on Oct 28, 2009 12:14 AM:





. I couldn't tell the differenece between her and everybody else.

Thats so astute & chilling!!!!!!It could have just have easily been a quote about Ted Bundy couldnt it?
Sociopathic killers are BORN not made & are everywhere (imo)
I suspect theres VERY many more female killers than we can even imagine & I believe firmly that many cold cases & unsolved were/are the work of women either as an active participate or ACTING ALONE........Sandra Cantu was not the only victim of a female sexual predator & killer (imo).
I shudder to think of what couldve happened if AB had not gave into teenage girl behavior & documented or confessed to her deeds.Would she have killed again? Bundy & Dahmer both killed as teenagers & got away with it.
*IF* the rumors of the method of death & pre-meditation are true how can we NOT say AB wasnt/isnt a serial killer in the making?Why are only men 'allowed'to be seen as capable of killing?How many 'mothers'butually abuse or murder their children (or act as an accomplice by allowing another to do it)?
Women are just as capable as men but because of ingrained mythology they are allowed to get away with it(look at who,if charged at all,usually gets the lower sentence?)

Ive ranted before about all this (& although Im not a feminist it seems inherently sexist to continue the myth of the fairer sex in terms of criminality!) so I wont again here but imo this case is another foreshadowing that we (LE,society etc) MUST get over our notions that "girls" cant be brutal,depraved killers!!!

 

[Patty G]

Back in 2001, two young boys age 12 and 13 murdered their father and were tried as adults. The 12 year-old only seved seven years in prison, and the 13 year old , serve eight years in prison.

The brothers were required to provide statements admitting to their roles in the killing. They also pleaded guilty to burning the family home to cover up their actions, and the agreement allows concurrent sentences of the same lengths for the arson. They are not eligible for parole but will receive credit for time served, reducing their sentences by about a year.

The prosecutor and defense lawyers said the agreement held the boys accountable for their actions but combined punishment with the possibility for rehabilitation.

They are both out of prison .....

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/15/us/florida-boys-admit-they-killed-father-shorter-term-is-set.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32731265/ns/today-today_people/

 

[Deleted member 718]

Patty G, here is a similar case from Missouri. A 13 year old boy brought a gun to school and started shooting. He was charged as an adult and is serving a 10 year sentence. BTW, his court appearances were public.

http://www.semissourian.com/story/1568040.html

 

[Bibliophile]

Back in 2001, two young boys age 12 and 13 murdered their father and were tried as adults. The 12 year-old only seved seven years in prison, and the 13 year old , serve eight years in prison.
The brothers were required to provide statements admitting to their roles in the killing. They also pleaded guilty to burning the family home to cover up their actions, and the agreement allows concurrent sentences of the same lengths for the arson. They are not eligible for parole but will receive credit for time served, reducing their sentences by about a year.

I suspect the court and any jury chosen will look at this case very differently. Murder isn't always black and white; some are more heinous than others. If the history of that family included abuse, it could be interpreted as an act of desperation. Plotting to murder an innocent nine year old just to see what it felt like could hardly be compared.

Regardless of the age of the perpetrator, the circumstances surrounding the murder impacts the sentence.

 

[Bibliophile]

As part of today's memorial service for Elizabeth Olten in Jefferson City, some members of the community plan to be at the entrance of Hawthorn Memorial Gardens with a special remembrance.

At the entrance to the cemetery, residents will be handing out balloons to those who want to come and show their support for the family.

Those who want to come are urged to park on one side of Horner Road and then stand on the other.

Elizabeth's funeral is at 2 p.m. today at Concord Baptist Church; the funeral procession is expected to get to the cemetery between 2:45 and 3 p.m.

Elizabeth Olten obituary and memorial guestbook

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/28/news_local/064local04support09.txt

 

[Patty G]

Plotting to murder an innocent nine year old just to see what it felt like could hardly be compared.

Do we know that is true or is that a rumor?

 

[Bibliophile]

Detention hearing in 9-year-old's death closed to public

A hearing is set for 9 a.m. today to determine whether a 15-year-old juvenile accused of first-degree murder should remain in juvenile custody or be allowed to stay with family until an adult-certification hearing can be held.

The juvenile, whom officials will not identify by name or gender, is accused of killing Elizabeth Olten, 9, last week.

A petition was filed Friday accusing the juvenile of first-degree murder.

Cole County Judge Jon Beetem will hold today's detention hearing and the adult-certification hearing on Nov. 18.


http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/28/news_local/064local05hearing09.txt

 

[Velouria]

This was also posted at the link sdw posted:

Important Information wrote on Oct 27, 2009 11:46 AM:
" " I am a family member who has important information to share:

First I would like everyone to know the family is concentrating on the Love we have for Elizabeth, a time for trial and anger will come but that time is not now.

Second, we feel it is important for everyone to know that it is possible for people (not implying anyone specific) to attempt to anger others on the post for legal reasons

Every time something is said about the case building against the accused, her lawyer is watching and reading. It does affect the case. It could help prove that our community is to Biased to place her infront of a Jury of her peers. " "

Thanks CementPond.

Last night there was a poster (now banned) over on Frightened Primates who was criticizing the forum, saying that non-locals should trust Cole County LE to handle it, that their opinions had no effect other than to possibly cause a change of venue, etc. etc.. They also claimed the suspect is no different from your average 15 year-old foster child in Jefferson City and that no one could have seen this coming. This person has also been hitting the comment boards of some of the local newspapers as well. I had to wonder if this wasn't someone directly involved with the case...defense team cough cough


http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366962 for example

 

[Bibliophile]

Do we know that is true or is that a rumor?

If the sheriff's department and the Cole County prosecuting attorney are to be believed, its not a rumor.

To be charged with first degree murder, it cannot be a spur of the moment killing. There has to be premeditation.

 

[Patty G]

If the sheriff's department and the Cole County prosecuting attorney are to be believed, its not a rumor.

To be charged with first degree murder, it cannot be a spur of the moment killing. There has to be premeditation.

Did the Sheriff's Department or Prosecutor say: "Plotting to murder an innocent nine year old just to see what it felt like"?

 

[Bibliophile]

Would someone care to explain exactly what Websleuth's definition of a rumor is?

Does it have to be reported in the press to not be a rumor?

To be clear, I am not referring to the trash-talk of some of the message boards. There are several people on this board who are locals and either know the perp or the families involved, have close connections or have connections to LE. Those of you that live in mid-Missouri know that it is very small town, everyone knows everyone and if they don't, they know someone who does. As someone posted earlier, while LE has to follow juvenile regulations, anyone in Cole County that cared to know had the girl's name and where she lived in the first 24 hours.

I am not suggesting that we give the girls name but there are connections to and information in this case that are not merely rumor based.

Any clarification appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 718]

http://elizabetholten.ning.com/photo/photo/list?page=1

A website with some sweet photos of Elizabeth.

 

[Bibliophile]

Did the Sheriff's Department or Prosecutor say: "Plotting to murder an innocent nine year old just to see what it felt like"?

Hi Patty -

I am a local. I have lots of information I have not shared. I won't share anything that didn't come from a reliable source. I am trying to find out if everything we discuss on Websleuths has to come directly from LE or be reported in the press.

I realize it may be a fine line but I worry if that is so, we're really not critical thinkers or Websleuths at all - we're just regurgitating news articles.

Even journalists attempt to talk to many sources other than LE to separate out the hows and whys. I like amatuer sleuthing, putting puzzles together and trying to make sense of seemingly senseless things - that's why I am here. I know many of the discussions on these boards have helped me and I believe they have helped others. I have no desire to break any rules but I hope we can all use common sense and not be censored into ineffectiveness.

 

[Patty G]

Would someone care to explain exactly what Websleuth's definition of a rumor is?

Does it have to be reported in the press to not be a rumor?

To be clear, I am not referring to the trash-talk of some of the message boards. There are several people on this board who are locals and either know the perp or the families involved, have close connections or have connections to LE. Those of you that live in mid-Missouri know that it is very small town, everyone knows everyone and if they don't, they know someone who does. As someone posted earlier, while LE has to follow juvenile regulations, anyone in Cole County that cared to know had the girl's name and where she lived in the first 24 hours.

I am not suggesting that we give the girls name but there are connections to and information in this case that are not merely rumor based.

Any clarification appreciated. Thanks.

"Rumors" means information that's "out there" that hasn't been confirmed by LE and/or family members. It does not mean made up stories, stories blown out of proportion, or stories twisted to make a point.

Tricia, owner of the forum posted the above here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Mom2Yaya]

http://elizabetholten.ning.com/photo/photo/list?page=1

A website with some sweet photos of Elizabeth.

What a total freaking senseless act of violence to take this child from her family. :*(