MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #4

[Mojen]

Hi everyone! This case just makes me ill, I feel for everyone involved, including AB.

The defense is going to have a heck of a road getting past Missouri's cool reflection wording in the crimes against a person statute. Their best bet would be to plead diminished capacity. I hope AB gets the help she needs.

More importantly, I hope both families get the help they will need. I feel for the siblings of both girls. I can't imagine what Elizabeth's little friend is going through right now.

 

[crimecurious]

IMO the best thing you can do for your daughter is to be there for her, tell her you love her no matter what, tell her you will be there anytime she wants to talk, cry, vent, whatever. When I was that age, I probably would not have taken my mom up on an offer to talk - but it certainly would have helped to know she noticed and cared. I hope your situation improves.

Thanks Jules. I hope so too.

My daughter knows AB btw, and has many diff thoughts about her than the person from the other site describing her earlier.

 

[Deleted member 718]

My most recent thought is that she was supposed to be over at a friends house or something and waiting in the woods for Elizabeth to walk by. That would explain how she got the body to where it was so quickly. And was able to get the blood off herself before going home. That would also explain why maybe the police wouldn't have questioned her when they were first looking for Elizabeth. The GPs would have said, "oh she's over at a friends house tonight"

I agree, but where would she go to get the blood off herself? She didn't drive and it's a rural area. Did she have friends that lived close by that she could walk to and from their home in the dark? Or maybe she rode an ATV?


It wasn't raining the evening Elizabeth disappeared.

 

[crimecurious]

For those who were wondering about what the school was doing about the bf's threats to shoot everyone who talked bad about AB, my daughter said there was a lot of extra police officers for security at the school yesterday.

 

[Capri]

Capri, call into NG's show tonight and ask that. I am sure she will have Ladd on again, he should be able to answer that.

Maybe I could bribe "Sheeba" into doing it. She seems to have good luck with getting through.

 

[NewMommy09]

I'm sorry to say that my 16 yo daughter is going through the same thing right now. I'm glad your daughter is doing well now!

Hi crimecurious,

As someone who struggled with depression, cutting, experimentation with drugs, and other problems as a teenager. My (unsolicited) advice to you is to make sure she knows your door is always open, that you will help without judging, and that you can listen without trying to fix everything. Be honest with her and she will eventually realize and come to respect that.

I didn't let my family in at all, I even closed most of my friends out at some points. NOBODY understood what I was going through. And nobody who hasn't been there could ever understand. Cutting, for ME, was a way to put the pain I was feeling inside, on the outside. A way to make it real to other people, even though I hid the cuts and scars. It made me feel anything but numb. Eventually, I realized my mom was there for me, and I opened up to her about EVERYTHING. She is now my best friend in the world and there is nothing I can't say to her.

I wish you luck.

 

[crimecurious]

I agree, but where would she go to get the blood off herself? She didn't drive and it's a rural area. Did she have friends that lived close by that she could walk to and from their home in the dark? Or maybe she rode an ATV?


It wasn't raining the evening Elizabeth disappeared.

Just had to knock holes in my theory, LOL

I do think it rained before they searched that particular area. I need to go back and check the timelines again. I wish I knew how old the bf is... whether he's driving age...

 

[lishac23]

I confuse about the turtles thing.
But the comment from that article about how Elizabeth die... if true.....that would be a lot a blood and I would thought that LE would seem some kind blood in that area.

also make me think (if true) that AB would had been cover in blood....
having a hard time with that comment.

I think (and just kind of guessing here) that a lot of people are assuming that the ENTIRE crime was committed in the 45 minute window from when Elizabeth was supposed to have left 6:15 PM until the 911 call at 7:00. Let's keep in mind that the teen was not considered a suspect and questioned until a few days later when she then took LE to the location of the body. There are a lot of possible scenarios that could have taken place within the time she "headed home" 6:15 PM Wednesday until Friday, the day her body was discovered.

 

[Jules71]

Thanks Jules. I hope so too.

My daughter knows AB btw, and has many diff thoughts about her than the person from the other site describing her earlier.

Care to share the kinds of thoughts she has about her? If not, I completely understand.

I also wanted to add, in regards to your daughter - sometimes it's hard for a young person to feel comfortable talking to their own parent(s) for whatever reason, but maybe an aunt or friend's parent would be able to reach her. Is there anyone you could ask to open up with her to get her to talk and work through some of these things?

 

[Bibliophile]

I agree, but where would she go to get the blood off herself? She didn't drive and it's a rural area. Did she have friends that lived close by that she could walk to and from their home in the dark? Or maybe she rode an ATV?


It wasn't raining the evening Elizabeth disappeared.

Think harder.

If strangulation was the cause of death and the knife injuries were inflicted postmortem you would not have a lot of blood.

 

[Bibliophile]

My daughter knows AB btw, and has many diff thoughts about her than the person from the other site describing her earlier.

I do not know AB personally but all I know who do would no doubt agree with your daughter.

 

[crimecurious]

Hi crimecurious,

As someone who struggled with depression, cutting, experimentation with drugs, and other problems as a teenager. My (unsolicited) advice to you is to make sure she knows your door is always open, that you will help without judging, and that you can listen without trying to fix everything. Be honest with her and she will eventually realize and come to respect that.

I didn't let my family in at all, I even closed most of my friends out at some points. NOBODY understood what I was going through. And nobody who hasn't been there could ever understand. Cutting, for ME, was a way to put the pain I was feeling inside, on the outside. A way to make it real to other people, even though I hid the cuts and scars. It made me feel anything but numb. Eventually, I realized my mom was there for me, and I opened up to her about EVERYTHING. She is now my best friend in the world and there is nothing I can't say to her.

I wish you luck.

Thanks so much for your story. When I hear stories like yours, it helps give me hope that we can get her thru this mess. She's a sweet, loving girl, she just has had a lot of problems the past few years.

 

[Capri]

Just had to knock holes in my theory, LOL

I do think it rained before they searched that particular area. I need to go back and check the timelines again. I wish I knew how old the bf is... whether he's driving age...

Can you drive at 16 in Missouri?

 

[Mendara]

Where was Ab's BF at the time of the crime? Were there other teens missing from home? I thought LE received a letter as a tip and then traced it back to AB - where she then lead them to the body?? Am I wrong about this?

There may still be others involved.

 

[calamityjane]

I'm sorry to say that my 16 yo daughter is going through the same thing right now. I'm glad your daughter is doing well now!

Thank you. My only advice is just don't give up on her and continue to love her even when it's hard. I tried hard not to listen to all the negative comments such as saying she's just different or she's the bad seed...none of which are true. My daughter felt the affects of losing her grandmother deeply and still can't really talk about it.
AB could have been dealing with the loss of her teacher, bad news about her parents, jealousy towards Elizabeth, a bad relationship, etc., etc., no one will probably ever know what it was that made her snap.

 

[Capri]

I think (and just kind of guessing here) that a lot of people are assuming that the ENTIRE crime was committed in the 45 minute window from when Elizabeth was supposed to have left 6:15 PM until the 911 call at 7:00. Let's keep in mind that the teen was not considered a suspect and questioned until a few days later when she then took LE to the location of the body. There are a lot of possible scenarios that could have taken place within the time she "headed home" 6:15 PM Wednesday until Friday, the day her body was discovered.

Have a lot of the kids at the school been questioned? Friends & boyfriend?

 

[Deleted member 718]

Think harder.

If strangulation was the cause of death and the knife injuries were inflicted postmortem you would not have a lot of blood.

I hadn't thought of that, but very good point!

Elizabeth's aunt confirms AB was home at the time: http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/200...with-teen-girl-murder-suspect-prior-to-death/


In Missouri you can have a drivers permit at 15. "Missouri's Graduated Driver License law requires that all first-time drivers between 15 and 18 years old complete a period of driving with a licensed driver (instruction permit), and restricted driving (intermediate license), before getting a full driver license.

 

[crimecurious]

Care to share the kinds of thoughts she has about her? If not, I completely understand.

I also wanted to add, in regards to your daughter - sometimes it's hard for a young person to feel comfortable talking to their own parent(s) for whatever reason, but maybe an aunt or friend's parent would be able to reach her. Is there anyone you could ask to open up with her to get her to talk and work through some of these things?

I thought that would probably be considered rumor, so I didn't say.

And as for my daughter, my Mother has tried to talk to her also. We've taken her to counseling and she won't talk them. And every time something crazy happens, I always ask her what made her feel that she couldn't come to me and she promises she will the next time. She continues to keep everyone closed out except her friends. She actually did open up to a parent of a friend, the parent took advantage of that and I just got back from getting a restraining order against the parent.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, but where would she go to get the blood off herself? She didn't drive and it's a rural area. Did she have friends that lived close by that she could walk to and from their home in the dark? Or maybe she rode an ATV?


It wasn't raining the evening Elizabeth disappeared.

Another lurker here, amazed at the great sleuthing done on this case.

Remember there's a pond nearby the home and likely some small creeks in the woods where she could have washed up. Wouldn't it also be possible that the perp stashed a change of clothes or other covering at the murder location. Given the pre-meditated nature of the crime, she could have arranged it in advance.

Just a suggestion. This story breaks my heart. My family is from an area about 1 hr away and though I no longer live in MO, it saddens me to see how so much job loss and substance abuse has changed so much in these beautiful rural areas and small towns.

 

[crimecurious]

Can you drive at 16 in Missouri?

You can get a driver's permit at 15.