MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #7

[tlcya]

I am beginning to wonder exactly what Elizabeth found so frightening about those woods. Makes me wonder if "stuff" had been going on back there for some time and she knew about it. Not saying she participated or anything, just that she was aware there was scary stuff back there.

Uh huh. That has crossed my mind too. Despite how close the area is to the houses, it sounds pretty thick and overgrown back there. Despite its proximity I imagine that all sorts of things could take place out there with adults never having a clue. Maybe the woods were scary to her for a reason.

 

[Jodibug]

The distance between Elizabeth's house and AB's house is approximatly 1056 FEET, which is 352 YARDS. A football field is 100 yards (last time I checked). So actaully there are about THREE AND A HALF (3.5 or 3 1/5) football fields between Elizabeths house and AB's house.

Here's the thing: If you stand on Rt D half way between the two houses you can see both of them just by slightly turning your head in either direction. You can see both houses without taking a single step. (I know because I did exactly this on 10/22)

It is not that far for a nine year old to walk. I do NOT think that Patty was negligent for letting her daughter walk that far to play at a friend's house.

This was generally a very safe area until about a month ago (when we had a home invasion robbery, either 10/2 or 10/4, I believe. Just about two miles from where EO was taken and killed).

Would I let my 9 year old walk that walk today? NO. But a month ago I probably would have. Especially with a cell phone. You just *assume* that with a cell phone they can call you if they need anything. False sense of security?- Absolutely. But I don't feel that it was unreasonable to think (at that time, in this specific area) that EO could have gotten home safely.

So let's not blame the victim's mother, please.

 

[Jodibug]

Uh huh. That has crossed my mind too. Despite how close the area is to the houses, it sounds pretty thick and overgrown back there. Despite its proximity I imagine that all sorts of things could take place out there with adults never having a clue. Maybe the woods were scary to her for a reason.

and yet there were wide open yards for Elizabeth to walk through. Walking through the woods was not necessary. She was lured there by a murderer.

 

[Flashforward]

I know this is totally off the subject but I don't know how as a parent how you could go on living if something like this happened... even with medication if something happened to one of my children I don't know how I could go on...How does a parent return to work and learn to carry on with your life?
Then AB I semi feel sorry for her... I mean it is no excuse for what she did but I am wondering what it was like for her growing up. I have seen my husbands niece thrown from house to house with a drug using abusive mother who has been to prison twice and I could just picture here going down the same road. At the age of 7 such a sweet child and now at the age of 17 I wouldn't put it past her to do the same thing AB did. If this was my husband's niece that had done this hidious act I think her mother is just as much to blame as her.

 

[tlcya]

Jodibug, don't stress hon, I don't think that Danni was implying blame should go to EO mom. I myself have had to stop allowing 9 yr old daughter to play in father in laws yard which is right across street thanks to this case. I can't see her - even though it is right across the street and now, thanks to this case, I no longer feel its safe.

Also, welcome impianoteacher, I also joined WS this month

 

[impianoteach]

JodiBug, I am with you on that thought. I would have let my 9 yr old walk that far last month. The biggest concern most of us would have is "stranger danger". That certainly wasn't the case here. Why would anyone hold Elizabeth's mother responsible for a crime committed by another person anyway? There is only one person responsible for this crime.

 

[Jodibug]

I know this is totally off the subject but I don't know how as a parent how you could go on living if something like this happened... even with medication if something happened to one of my children I don't know how I could go on...How does a parent return to work and learn to carry on with your life?

I don't know, and I sure hope I never find out. My own grandparents have outlived three of their children, which I find terribly heartbreaking. They have strength far beyond mine.

I imagine that Patty will go on for the sake of her son. He still needs her and she will just have to find a way to move forward and continue being there for him.

Then AB I semi feel sorry for her... I mean it is no excuse for what she did but I am wondering what it was like for her growing up. I have seen my husbands niece thrown from house to house with a drug using abusive mother who has been to prison twice and I could just picture here going down the same road. At the age of 7 such a sweet child and now at the age of 17 I wouldn't put it past her to do the same thing AB did. If this was my husband's niece that had done this hidious act I think her mother is just as much to blame as her.

Sorry, I just can't muster up any sympathy for AB. Can't do it. Lots of kids grow up abused, they don't have to become murderers. Even if this is caused by a mental defect for which AB has no fault, I don't believe that people like her can ever be rehabilitated, and therefore she needs to be locked up for LIFE, for the safety of the community.

 

[Flashforward]

The distance between Elizabeth's house and AB's house is approximatly 1056 FEET, which is 352 YARDS. A football field is 100 yards (last time I checked). So actaully there are about THREE AND A HALF (3.5 or 3 1/5) football fields between Elizabeths house and AB's house.

WOW I would have never guessed it to be that far guess I am bad at guess-timating, but man I would have never guessed to be 3&1/2 football fields.

 

[Jodibug]

JodiBug, I am with you on that thought. I would have let my 9 yr old walk that far last month. The biggest concern most of us would have is "stranger danger". That certainly wasn't the case here. Why would anyone hold Elizabeth's mother responsible for a crime committed by another person anyway? There is only one person responsible for this crime.

Thank you.

I have heard people (here and elsewhere) question why her mother would let her walk that far.

I have two teenagers and I can assure you that when they were that age they DID walk that far to friends' homes to play.

I also have a toddler. She will not be able to enjoy the same freedoms that my other children did, which is very sad for her.

It is unfortunate that it takes an incident like this for us to become more vigilant, but that is just the way it is. No one is to blame for this except AB.

 

[danni]

Here's the thing: If you stand on Rt D half way between the two houses you can see both of them just by slightly turning your head in either direction. You can see both houses without taking a single step. (I know because I did exactly this on 10/22)

It is not that far for a nine year old to walk. I do NOT think that Patty was negligent for letting her daughter walk that far to play at a friend's house.

This was generally a very safe area until about a month ago (when we had a home invasion robbery, either 10/2 or 10/4, I believe. Just about two miles from where EO was taken and killed).

Would I let my 9 year old walk that walk today? NO. But a month ago I probably would have. Especially with a cell phone. You just *assume* that with a cell phone they can call you if they need anything. False sense of security?- Absolutely. But I don't feel that it was unreasonable to think (at that time, in this specific area) that EO could have gotten home safely.

So let's not blame the victim's mother, please.

WOW....NEVER DID I BLAME ANYONE NOR SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT ANYONE IN THE "OLTEN" HOME!

If you read my post....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashforward
The distance between EO's house and AB's house isn't really all that far, if I was guessing I would say 1-2 football fields apart.

The distance between Elizabeth's house and AB's house is approximatly 1056 FEET, which is 352 YARDS. A football field is 100 yards (last time I checked). So actaully there are about THREE AND A HALF (3.5 or 3 1/5) football fields between Elizabeths house and AB's house.

I was CORRECTING Flashforward. Because the information in that post was clearly wrong!

 

[impianoteach]

Thank you.

I have heard people (here and elsewhere) question why her mother would let her walk that far.

I have two teenagers and I can assure you that when they were that age they DID walk that far to friends' homes to play.

I also have a toddler. She will not be able to enjoy the same freedoms that my other children did, which is very sad for her.

It is unfortunate that it takes an incident like this for us to become more vigilant, but that is just the way it is. No one is to blame for this except AB.

Facts are facts. We have a very low crime rate in this area. We "know" our neighbors. I think this 15 yr old girl was going to murder someone no matter what. It is unfortunate that it was Elizabeth, however, walking home or not, she was playing at the murderer's home. It sounds like she may have played over there often. How could Elizabeth's mother know that her daughter was playing with someone that intended to do harm? We don't even know that Elizabeth did start walking home that night. She was in the woods with a murderer and the rest, sadly, is history.

 

[impianoteach]

WOW....NEVER DID I BLAME ANYONE NOR SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT ANYONE IN THE "OLTEN" HOME!

If you read my post....


I was CORRECTING Flashforward. Because the information in that post was clearly wrong!

I don't think you implied anything at all Danni. If you read some of the comments in the St Louis paper they are all over the mom for letting her walk. Different world in the city I guess.

 

[Jodibug]

WOW....NEVER DID I BLAME ANYONE NOR SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT ANYONE IN THE "OLTEN" HOME!
!

I was not referring to you specifically.

The theme of Patty being negligent has come up on several message boards, newspaper sites, TV shows, etc....

People in larger cities do not understand what JC is/was like.

eta: My post was sort of a pre-emptive strike. I did not want people to start blaming Patty (again) for letting Elizabeth walk to a friends home.

 

[Flashforward]

I have read so many post here, so do we know for a fact that the families of AB and EO didn't get along before this happened?

 

[Jodibug]

I think this 15 yr old girl was going to murder someone no matter what.

Exactly. She would have gotten someone else if it hadn't been Elizabeth.

There was no motive for killing Elizabeth. No reason at all.

Which is why AB must get a life sentence or no one is safe.

 

[Jodibug]

I have read so many post here, so do we know for a fact that the families of AB and EO didn't get along before this happened?

I do not deem that a fact.

The only place I have ever head it is from ILC.

 

[tlcya]

Thank you.

I have heard people (here and elsewhere) question why her mother would let her walk that far.

It is so sad that our children cannot experience the type of childhood we were allowed to. At nine we knew all our neighbors. My mother knew all the other mothers in the neighborhood. They all attended PTA together. I ran in the summertime from sunup til sundown. My rule was stay within my boundaries (about a six block residential area) and check in every few hours. I knew that if I got in to mischeive, one of those neighborhood moms was going to see and report back to my mother. All the mothers in the area mothered and watched over not only their own but one another's.

My kids will never know the freedom of roaming and exploring their neighborhood. Thanks to the ever increasing prevelance of child predation, I feel I must have "eyes on" my kids at all times. It is sad. They do not know what they are missing, but alas, I do.

It took events such as this one to make us realize, the world has changed. And not for the better. I thank you Elizabeth and I thank her mother. The loss of that mother's beautiful child has caused me to hold my own that much closer and maybe if we all take that lesson from this case, there will be less cases like this in future.

 

[danni]

I don't think you implied anything at all Danni. If you read some of the comments in the St Louis paper they are all over the mom for letting her walk. Different world in the city I guess.

I know what is out there, and what HAS been out there about the mother since the start. I know what has been wrote right here on this site about the mother. It is sad. It makes me so freakin angry I could spit nails simply because it does not matter how far this child walked, or how many drugs the mother was on or whether she had a cell phone with her or...IT JUST DOES NOT MATTER. This was a child that was KILLED, DEAD, NEVER TO COME BACK AGAIN. Being the mother a child that is dead it is hard enough when you blame yourself, but when everyone else is blaming you. It is unthinkable!

How could I blame another mother for something that I myself have had to deal with in the past.

I was 22 weeks pregnant, driving a blazer 45 in a 55, it flipped 9 times and I had an emergency c section to have the baby, he died two days later. "Friends" blamed ME for driving to fast even though it was determinded to be a vehicle defect!

 

[Flashforward]

People in larger cities do not understand what JC is/was like.

I agree with that! I have seen so many things on different forums that just crack me up --- I mean JC is not big like St. Louis/KC but it doesn't mean we all have cattle, wear cowboy hats, and the closest walmart is 2 hours away

 

[impianoteach]

I know what is out there, and what HAS been out there about the mother since the state. I know what has been wrote right here on this site about the mother. It is sad. It makes me so freakin angry I could spit nails simply because it does not matter how far this child walked, or how many drugs the mother was on or whether she had a cell phone with her or...IT JUST DOES NOT MATTER. This was a child that was KILLED, DEAD, NEVER TO COME BACK AGAIN. Being the mother a child that is dead it is hard enough when you blame yourself, but when everyone else is blaming you. It is unthinkable!

How could I blame another mother for something that I myself have had to deal with in the past.

I was 22 weeks pregnant, driving a blazer 45 in a 55, it flipped 9 times and I had an emergency c section to have the baby, he died two days later. "Friends" blamed ME for driving to fast even though it was determinded to be a vehicle defect!

{{{{{{{{Danni}}}}}}}}}}