MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[crimecurious]

It would be public record.

The warrant is for a thing (house) not a person, so it would not be subject to laws protecting juveniles. The warrant return might, if it listed items found that belonged to a juvenile.

If there is no warrant on public record, the search was voluntary.

I can't find that info online anywhere.

 

[Jules71]

I can't find that info online anywhere.

I wonder if someone contacted the Cole County Sheriffs office if they could request a copy of the warrant - it's public record, right?

 

[lajr56]

I wonder if someone contacted the Cole County Sheriffs office if they could request a copy of the warrant - it's public record, right?

Not always, sometimes warrants are sealed. I would imagine that would be especially true in the case of a (so far) juvenile.

 

[raisincharlie]

I wonder if someone contacted the Cole County Sheriffs office if they could request a copy of the warrant - it's public record, right?

If returned and not sealed - you should be able to obtain a copy from the clerk of courts at the Cole County court house.

 

[human]

I've been listening about the Supreme Court case on MPR, in terms of Life without parole being unconstitutional for minors. The discussion so far has been about crimes committed that are NOT murder. I am thinking at this point that murder will still be a crime that can result with a juvenile getting life without parole, especially one that is extremely heinous. The murder issue does not even seem to be under discussion with the Supreme Court at this point in time.

 

[danni]

I've been listening about the Supreme Court case on MPR, in terms of Life without parole being unconstitutional for minors. The discussion so far has been about crimes committed that are NOT murder. I am thinking at this point that murder will still be a crime that can result with a juvenile getting life without parole, especially one that is extremely heinous. The murder issue does not even seem to be under discussion with the Supreme Court at this point in time.

How would that work if it was deamed unconstitutional, would it matter in this case since the crime was committed prior to the decision being made? Or would it matter when the punishment was handed down?

 

[Csquare]

I still think it should be on a case by case basis. Some kids are very smart these days and know what is right and wrong alot earlier than they used to.
In this case, it appears obvious that she knew exactly what she was doing and therefore needs to be treated as an adult.

 

[human]

How would that work if it was deamed unconstitutional, would it matter in this case since the crime was committed prior to the decision being made? Or would it matter when the punishment was handed down?

Not being on the Supreme court (lol!), I don't know, but it might affect it. The reason I say this because they are also talking about Jeffrey Skillings (I think that's his name) and his Enron dealings.

There is something about doing a job for the public trust and apparently that was used for govt. officials if they stole. But the Court is looking at it for other reasons that people have been put in prison.

MPR was saying that if the Court finds that law is not applicable to Skillings (for example) , he would get out of prison.

I listen to MPR in the car on the way to and from work, so I only hear it as long as I am driving.

 

[bigflaw]

I still think it should be on a case by case basis. Some kids are very smart these days and know what is right and wrong alot earlier than they used to.
In this case, it appears obvious that she knew exactly what she was doing and therefore needs to be treated as an adult.

Ultimately she is not an adult... according to the government. Even if she is "tried" as an adult, states that have the death penalty will not execute a minor. So right there it's not the same. This is one sick girl. She will get some sort of insanity plea, that's my opinion. She may be sentenced to life, but in a mental facility. A life prison sentence for this obviously deranged girl is no better than the death penalty for her, which I agree is inhumane. Sure, every crime deserves justice but some of us were given WAY more of a chance than others. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about some major physical/psychological/sexual abuse after this is over. I'd put 2/1 odds on all three. She was basically surrounded by career criminals. How many of you can say you were raised that way. Mom on drugs, dad a scofflaw in about every way possible, EO's dad and brother pretty much preparing for a Waco... how would you have seen the world? This girl needs help to have any kind of reasonable existence. Otherwise, you may as well put her in the chair. But like I said earlier... we can't.

 

[Bibliophile]

I can't find that info online anywhere.

Have you looked in Missouri Statutes? I can't recall the number off the top of my head but I know for a fact that the application for warrants and supporting documents are open records under Missouri law.

 

[Bibliophile]

If returned and not sealed - you should be able to obtain a copy from the clerk of courts at the Cole County court house.

Even unreturned the application is public record.

 

[human]

Ultimately she is not an adult... according to the government. Even if she is "tried" as an adult, states that have the death penalty will not execute a minor. So right there it's not the same. This is one sick girl. She will get some sort of insanity plea, that's my opinion. She may be sentenced to life, but in a mental facility. A life prison sentence for this obviously deranged girl is no better than the death penalty for her, which I agree is inhumane. Sure, every crime deserves justice but some of us were given WAY more of a chance than others. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about some major physical/psychological/sexual abuse after this is over. I'd put 2/1 odds on all three. She was basically surrounded by career criminals. How many of you can say you were raised that way. Mom on drugs, dad a scofflaw in about every way possible, EO's dad and brother pretty much preparing for a Waco... how would you have seen the world? This girl needs help to have any kind of reasonable existence. Otherwise, you may as well put her in the chair. But like I said earlier... we can't.

I totally agree that life was not fair for this girl at all. Undoubtedly she was abused in lots of ways. But society has to be protected from her. That's the bottom line in this.

It makes me so sad when I think of little infants with their trusting little eyes to be born into a hell. They did not choose the life that was given to them.

At this point in time, we don't appear to a have a therapy that can fix these severely damaged children.

All I can think is that if having a loving grandmother, a pool, horses, friends, boyfriend and activities, didn't make her happy, then maybe it doesn't matter if she is in a locked pysch ward somewhere.

 

[raisincharlie]

Even unreturned the application is public record.

The application may be but the application does not include the probable cause affidavit or the inventory. The application is also available for a sealed warrant. No point in getting an application - tells you zero other than a warrant exists.

 

[Bibliophile]

The application may be but the application does not include the probable cause affidavit or the inventory. The application is also available for a sealed warrant. No point in getting an application - tells you zero other than a warrant exists.

But that was the question - whether or not a warrant existed, if there would be public record indicating as such or if the grandparents allowed LE to search their home voluntarily.

My position was if a search was conducted and there was no public record indicating a warrant, the grandparents allowed them in.

Clear as mud?

 

[Bibliophile]

Here's an interesting tidbit from the Media Law Handbook, Missouri Bar Press Commission

Juvenile litigation: Juvenile records are maintained in the Circuit Clerk’s office in many jurisdictions (although larger counties may have a separate juvenile court office). In general, these records are closed at all times, unless the child has been certified under Missouri’s law to be tried as an adult. (However, if the reporter obtains information regarding a juvenile matter, the bar against release of this information does not apply to the
reporter. The state mandate applies only to court and law enforcement personnel who have custody of this information. Therefore, there is no restriction on the reporter in reporting on information which may have been obtained.)

 

[Capri]

Helpful info about search warrants and exceptions written by a defense attorney in Jefferson City. These are specific for Missouri. Part 2, states the exception of giving consent to search property. http://blog.jeffcitylaw.com/?p=60

http://blog.jeffcitylaw.com/?cat=11

 

[Salem]

I still think it should be on a case by case basis. Some kids are very smart these days and know what is right and wrong alot earlier than they used to.
In this case, it appears obvious that she knew exactly what she was doing and therefore needs to be treated as an adult.

I'm also going to say that the Supreme Court must look at juvenile gang crimes. Often older gang members set up the younger ones to do the crime because the penalties are not as stiff. I think, iirc, this had something to do with all the "charging teens as adults" laws that were passed way back when.

I will admit I did not research this and am relying on my memory - so ....

Salem

 

[Bibliophile]

Missouri statutes regarding search warrants are are under Section 542.276
"The application and any supporting affidavit and a copy of the warrant shall be retained in the records of the court from which the warrant was issued."

In addition, unless some other law requires confidentiality, the "Freedom of Information Act" (federal law) requires disclosure of public records.

Missouri law regarding search warrants is markedly different from most states’ laws on such warrants: Section 542.276 sets out that the application for warrants and supporting affidavits are open records under Missouri law, whereas the return of the warrant, outlining the result of the search, is to be delivered to the judge and is a non- public record. (In Re: Various Search Warrants and Returns. State v. Irvin, 1991 WL 150843 (Mo.Cir).) - Media Law Handbook, Missouri Bar Press Commission

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

<giggle about your googling>

I actually don't know about a central location where there is a list of WS acronyms, but here are a few I can recall:

TOS= terms of service
LE=law enforcement
LEO=law enforcement officer
=piece of chit
SO=sex offender
RSO=registered sex offender
FB=facebook
MS=myspace

and then the typical

tia=thanks in advance
hth=hope this helps
iirc=if I recall correctly
iow=in other words
OP=other poster

Someone else (thank you) already mentioned the DD, DS, and DH. THen you can go beyond that to DSIL, DMIL, etc for other relatives.

If I think of more, I'll post them.

Hoppy

Sorry if already posted but I found this awhile back and bookmarked it!

Websleuths Lingo:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[crimecurious]

But that was the question - whether or not a warrant existed, if there would be public record indicating as such or if the grandparents allowed LE to search their home voluntarily.

My position was if a search was conducted and there was no public record indicating a warrant, the grandparents allowed them in.

Clear as mud?

Well, I'd say it would take a trip to the courthouse to get records and I don't think it would tell us much. Because I will bet they had one ready in case they needed it and as someone said earlier, to dot i and cross ts. They never know when someone is going to stop cooperating.