MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[MyBelle]

There's something so sad about the mother's statement imo. It shows how normalized taking drugs to get high must have been. MOO.

BBM. Perhaps it was to the mother but if so, that is very troubling. There is nothing "normal" about taking illegal drugs or drunk driving.

We'll never know why the men were in the back yard, but my son is in that age group. He doesn't understand why they didn't call a ride-share. Plenty of those would be in the area after a Chiefs game.

JMO

 

[December]

Where does this idea that JW could not possibly be a person who used cocaine come from? I don't know what he does or doesn't do...

But, i don't do cocaine and never have. I would NEVER invite people using coke or any other illegal drugs into my house. Because of so many reasons: if they get caught at my house i am in trouble with the law, if they leave some and it is found then i am in trouble with the law, if they start doing weird druggie stuff i have no idea how to deal with them, etc.

So, i think they were ALL doing more or less the same thing, just using logic. It's just, for whatever reason (doing less, being inside, having a tolerance, luck) one person did not die.

If they are decent people, they would not even do it on his property if he was completely against it. They surely have other locations they could get high.

I assume, in all my years of knowing people, i have known someone who used coke (as in, we were friends). They just kept it away from me because they knew i didn't do it. Friends know these basic things about each other.

I know JW was better educated than the others. Well educated people can do exactly the same things as anyone else. They can choose to drink beer rather than wine. They can want to get high and think it will be okay. It probably seems like they do it less maybe because they seek treatment faster if they recognize things are getting out of hand, idk.

 

[Forest_Wood]

This an honest statement though, if his mother had never done drugs herself.

Yes, an honest statement, but an ignorant statement too because drugs of all kinds do kill unfortunately. Usually it's a slower death though, and not an immediate one like this. People tend to be able to accept things that happen slowly and deny things that happen dramatically. It's like the boiling frog analogy. MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. And not just, as in this case, the risk of death, but the very real risk of addiction.

I wonder, is this widespread ignorance about addiction, the real problem?

People who approve of, or experiment with drugs, don't understand addiction. People who disapprove of other people's drug use don't understand addiction.

And addicts themselves don't understand addiction! They stubbornly believe it's the solution to their problems, they can't break free until they understand it IS the problem.

JMO

BBM. Very good point!
There is so much about this case we still don't know.

JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Has it been said if any of the homes nearby had security cameras that could show if the 3 men left and game back?

I haven't heard it reported and I am curious about that also.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I wonder, is this widespread ignorance about addiction, the real problem?

Yes! It's a family issue for sure.
No one person or organization can understand everything about addiction, because it's as multifaceted and complex as the person who gets caught up in the cycle of using substances and those people and organizations who try to help them. Even the medical community is continually learning new things as drugs evolve and as more people are prescribed or abuse those same drugs, in addition to using alcohol and other substances. The families in this case have denied addiction though. The only one who has talked about a possible problem is JW, who is reported to have gone off to rehab. That, at least, is a good first step.
MOO.

 

[KMouse]

It's funny how different people are, no way would I go home mad to wait (maybe I would in two weeks when the meds kick in fully and I'm not severely anxious, I'll get back to you on that). But that's what makes people interesting and why we are all different.

Well I would assume that he over indulged in some drinks and fell asleep but it's not 20 years ago LOL

 

[December]

I will say this about JW and his higher than normal education...
Obviously, he had to work and apply himself for a number of years to achieve that.
He has written something like 55 papers, again, he had to apply himself diligently to the research and writing to do this

However, all this has allowed him to work somewhat independently. For all we know, he recently wrapped up a project and has been taking some time just to enjoy himself.

I think I read somewhere in this thread he checked into work on Monday or Tuesday. Idk if he stated that or this is speculation. But, he could still have ongoing projects. Most people do.

But, all this is to say, he couldn't have been zonked out of his mind for years. That doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes decide to party with some friends.

I think probably all these guys were like this even though they had very different kinds of jobs. They had periods of time they decided to party with some friends and other times when they didn't do that so much.

The one mother may be reacting to the word "suicide". I don't think this is literally a suicide situation (as in i don't think that three people all at once decided to kill themselves), but i don't know how insurance views this. There have been some informative posts in this thread about insurance. I just don't have any special knowledge on this.

 

[al66pine]

Strategy of Family?

If it were my loved ones, I would want a full investigation and the provider held accountable, if possible. It didn't seem like the police were initially pursuing the investigation very thoroughly. Their strategy has been effective, IMO.

Re "Their strategy has been effective." Is this referring to strategy of loved ones of the deceased? If so, repectfully, as @iridized posted - "We have no idea what the police were doing in regards to this."
LE may have left the starting gate at full speed as early as Tues. night the moment the bodies were found. Not saying they did, but possible.

If LE and/or Prosecutor state - strategy was effective - then I'll accept that stmt as a fact.

BTW, if it were my loved ones, I would want a full investigation too.

 

[iridized]

For all we know there is a possibility that there was no afterparty planned. These guys could have just decided to stop over with beer and party supplies instead of going home after the game was over. We still don't know where they watched the game, if JW was with them at the bar or where ever, we actually know nothing. All we really know that is 3 men decided to do deadly drugs. I wish the tox report will be released soon. I am interested in their BAC.

 

[MyBelle]

Where does this idea that JW could not possibly be a person who used cocaine come from? I don't know what he does or doesn't do...

But, i don't do cocaine and never have. I would NEVER invite people using coke or any other illegal drugs into my house. Because of so many reasons: if they get caught at my house i am in trouble with the law, if they leave some and it is found then i am in trouble with the law, if they start doing weird druggie stuff i have no idea how to deal with them, etc.

So, i think they were ALL doing more or less the same thing, just using logic. It's just, for whatever reason (doing less, being inside, having a tolerance, luck) one person did not die.

If they are decent people, they would not even do it on his property if he was completely against it. They surely have other locations they could get high.

I assume, in all my years of knowing people, i have known someone who used coke (as in, we were friends). They just kept it away from me because they knew i didn't do it. Friends know these basic things about each other.

I know JW was better educated than the others. Well educated people can do exactly the same things as anyone else. They can choose to drink beer rather than wine. They can want to get high and think it will be okay. It probably seems like they do it less maybe because they seek treatment faster if they recognize things are getting out of hand, idk.

If I was using any illegal drug in my home, no way would I allow LE to search it without a search warrant.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Taking drugs is risk taking behavior. The mother said, 'He didn't take that to die. if he took the drugs on his own, he took them to get high.'

If “he took them to get high” there is always a risk of death.

JMO

BBM
So true.

I have kept quiet while following along, but this scenario entered my family's life 2 yrs ago.

It is so sad and scary and we are still dealing with grief, sadness and reunifications this decision caused.

I am in no way blaming the victims or our loved one.

But it is a risk and unfortunately, it has happened to other families and loved ones like these football fans and long time friends.

Just Heartbreaking

 

[branmuffin]

<modsnip - quoted post was off topic>
Adding to my prior post. Missouri laws and egress windows.

https://www.republicmo.com/DocumentCenter/View/130/Egress-Window---Grade-Floor-Guidelines#:~:text=Windows%20must%20meet%20specific%20size,and%20attics%20with%20habitable%20space.

 

[neesaki]

I don't know if it's just me being cynical, but it feels like Cuomo is trying to encourage them to blame JW?

I’ve been called cynical before. But, In this case, I will say I do promise that I am very open to forthcoming information. It will be a relief when they provide that.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Regarding the basement, and where you would exit from the basement, I can't believe I didn't notice this before on the realtor images. There seems to be a door in the panelling of the entertainment room:

If the basement is at the back of the house (marked in green), that door would perfectly line up with where the basement stairs seem to be. The basement window would be pretty much directly beneath the "Dining1" window :

 

[December]

If I was using any illegal drug in my home, no way would I allow LE to search it without a search warrant.

JMO

Good point. But, it's two days later, so maybe you knew by then you didn't have them in your house any more.

Of course, yes, it's possible that "outside" was the place they were using coke or something.

ETA: why are we talking about basement bedroom? Did someone say this house had one? The best i have heard is a "finished" basement which usually mean another place to hang out watching TV or playing pool or something like that.

 

[LadyL]

She was very young then, when they got together. Daily Mail says she's 34. So, she was 14 when they got together. All I can find in MSM is that they were "engaged for 12 years." (Part of the series of DM articles).

IMO.

I do not remember which link but I am sure I have read here several times that Clayton had a 16 year old daughter from a PREVIOUS relationship, which would add up to his and April's relationship starting 12 years ago.
JMO as I do not have a link.

ETA: changed Heather to April

I haven't seen that anywhere but you may both be right since I can't find anything definitive and either way, points to them likely living together which was the original question I think

 

[December]

It just occurred to me...

JW is sleeping on the couch. There are three versions of the friends leaving by the front door. He saw this, he thought this happened (heard it, whatever), or walked them to the door.

It's possible he just heard it and the person who left was AWL. AWL says JW was asleep on the couch when he left.

 

[NCWatcher]

It just occurred to me...

JW is sleeping on the couch. There are three versions of the friends leaving by the front door. He saw this, he thought this happened (heard it, whatever), or walked them to the door.

It's possible he just heard it and the person who left was AWL. AWL says JW was asleep on the couch when he left.

I've not seen any reports that AWL said JW was asleep when he left. All I've seen is AWL claiming the 4 men were watching Jeopardy at 11pm or 12am when he left. (Different outlets have reported different departure times.)

Mystery deepens as fifth friend at Chiefs gathering claims fans found frozen to death in backyard were inside watching ‘Jeopardy!’ when he left

Jordan Willis had four friends over to his Kansas City rental on Jan. 7, his lawyer claimed.

nypost.com

My feeling is that JW's accounts are inconsistent because he was, at the very least, quite drunk. (Maybe used drugs too, idk.) From what has been reported, I can't know but have no reason to think he totally blacked out. By "black out" I mean that while he appeared conscious, memories were not transferred to long-term storage. Instead, he may have had a fragmentary black out, sometimes called a "gray out."

Interrupted Memories: Alcohol-Induced Blackouts | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

Drinking to the point of a blackout has gained pop culture notoriety in recent years. Alcohol-induced blackouts can lead to impaired memory of events that transpired while intoxicated, and a drastically increased risk of injuries and other harms. They can occur in anyone who drinks alcohol, no...

www.niaaa.nih.gov

His memories could have big gaps or be hard to retrieve meaning his "story" might change as he is slowly able to retrieve more information and as he tries to make sense of what happened. It's also possible at some point after the bodies were found he had a drink or two before heading to rehab. That might seem weird but people do that. It's not unusual. And if his memories were "alcohol dependent" memories, they'd be easier to recall when he used alcohol again. The alcoholic state acts as a retrieval cue. (Is a kind of state dependent memory)

I also wonder about JW's attorney. I think we are allowed to look up an attorney's qualifications. It appears he had a military career before going to law school. He has been a criminal defense attorney for a fairly long time but he is now in his mid-60s. I am not an attorney, and I am most certainly not saying people in their 60s are usually senile, but I do wonder if he's lost some of his "sharpness." He seemed so anxious to speak on the record for his client early on. And he kept doing it. That seemed odd to me. Maybe I'm more used to attorneys who say "no comment" because in the cases I've followed, often there IS a true suspect/POI, and often it turns out, that person IS guilty. JW is not an official suspect/POI despite what some are reporting in the media and despite what some family members are saying. Personally I think JWs murky, likely fluid, alcoholic recall coupled with having a blathering attorney has caused problems for him in the court of public opinion. MOO

 

[December]

What i mean is JW might have heard the guys saying goodnight to AWL and thought they were saying goodnight to him.

We don't know what JW said to the police, his lawyer does. This may explain some things if we knew.

ETA,: i am pretty sure AWL did say JW was asleep on the couch and the other guys were watching Jeopardy. This all got lost trying to figure out about the dogs, etc.

I get why JW's story might be muddled. But, if both JW and AWL say JW was asleep on the couch, then it's likely he was. (I'm not saying he didn't go to bed at some point, just at that time he was on the couch.)

EtA2... JW's lawyer has convinced most people that JW can't remember what actually happened. Now, this could be true. But, i think (,jmo) him talking so much was to serve that purpose.