MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[reedus23]

i keep hoping that somehow video will turn up from a nearby store or something, wishful thinking...

There are no stores nearby. There is an apartment complex but don't know if they have security cameras.

 

[reedus23]

i agree with everything except the shooting looters thing, but would you agree that the vast majority of the people protesting are not looters or rioters?

Here is what I have seen from following this. The family and supporters will schedule rallies/protests/vigils and will relatively speaking be peaceful. In a very very general sense, you will find these are attended by slightly older individuals on average. My only criticism is they have timed these for dinner time or after. Those "protests" are essentially dissipating after dark. After dark, the make up of the crowd is changing to a younger crowd that is frankly, a bunch of thugs and criminals that are using this incident as a spring board for their criminal behavior. I truly believe it is two distinct sets of individuals. I wish the "protests" were schedule earlier in the day, ending at 4:00 or earlier. The "thugs" then would not have a jumping off point where they "join" the peaceful protests. Unfortunately, I believe Sharpton has seen fit to schedule another "gathering" at a church for tonight at 7:00. I predict that we'll see the same thing again. There will be a peaceful protest to start, then the makeup of the crowd will change and the thugs will have already been inflamed into action. Just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[reedus23]

Police respond to St. Louis Galleria following fight
http://www.kmov.com/news/just-posted/Reports-St-Louis-Galleria-evacuated-following--270826041.html

RICHMOND HEIGHTS, Mo. -- Officers with the Richmond Heights Police Department responded to the St. Louis Galleria Monday evening. The Galleria has closed.

Police said a group of teenagers got into a fight. As many as 40 reportedly people became involved.

This is getting more tense.

While the Brown situation may have spurred the fights, I don't think it is directly related to it. The Galleria, while originally a nice place to shop, and in many ways still is, has seen a spike in crime in general. There is a Metrolink (train transit) that stops on it's door steps. Since that has been installed, the crime from downtown St. Louis and Illinois has slightly drifted to the Galleria. So while the Brown case might have been an instigating factor, I doubt these were protestors or even looters/rioters from the Ferguson area migrating there.

 

[reedus23]

the most detailed account from the friend i have found yet, goes into detail about the strat of the incident which i had not heard before;

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

"Now, in line with the officer’s driver’s side door, they could see the officer’s face. They heard him say something to the effect of, “what’d you say?” At the same time, Johnson says the officer attempted to thrust his door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. Johnson says the officer, with his left hand, grabbed Brown by the neck.

“I could see the muscles in his forearm,” Johnson said. “Mike was trying to get away from being choked.”"

that is a whole lot different from "pushed him back in his car and went in after him trying to get his gun"...

Take it for what it's worth because I have no link, but apparently all of the witnesses agree with this version in one form or another. By that I mean, some saw different points of the confrontation, but when told together are all relatively consistent.

 

[reedus23]

later in that article it says that the police have not even interviewed that kid ! he offered to talk to them and they declined... if true, wth?

supposedly two people were sitting in a car right there when it happened, two more possible witnesses hopefully they saw everything.

My understanding is they did, or at least various parts of the confrontation. Apparently, also an elderly lady sitting outside also saw it. Believe there were more witnesses as well but I'll have to go back and look. Much of this is taken from radio interviews so I don't have links for it. So take it for what it's worth.

 

[reedus23]

there is a second witness statement and this girl tells the same story as the friend, she saw it from her house, says that michael was some distance away from the cop and he raised his hands and was shot several more times.

it is interesting to note that in the latest video of the police spokesperson (that was brought in from another department to investigate) he claims it as "fact" that brown purposefully pushed the officer back in his car and that there was a struggle for the officers weapon - he does not say 'the officer claims", he says "in fact, there was a struggle for the weapon in the car"...

could be an oversight, could be his mind is made up that that actually happened. note in my earlier post that the male friend witness offered to talk to police but they said no, he wasnt even interviewed at the scene (he initially ran home but then went back).

still not sure what exactly happened but it isnt looking good for this cop so far.

I completely understand how those kind of statements are made. And that is part of what has created so much anger. Note, there were peaceful demonstrations on Saturday and earlier Sunday morning. Is it coincidence that the rioting only began after the official statement by LE? Who knows, though I have my suspicions.

 

[reedus23]

BBM

I can see why the cop would be hesitant to accept this person as a witness if they were suddenly walking up on the scene, coming from their house, but saying they had been there earlier. And they are a friend of the victim. How do we know they really saw anything or were really there at that time?

The witness was offered up to the police department by and through a lawyer, not just there at the scene. It was that offer of providing a statement that was rejected. At a minimum, the kid has to be interviewed to determine the veracity of his statements. One can't simply ignore it. Again, part of the problems in relations that boil over into rioting.

 

[reedus23]

I think I will wait to see what evidence they find in and on the police car for starters. Also, with cell phone video being rampant and we have none?

I am going to guess no. They supposedly have collected a lot of phones, but haven't heard any word of a video having been taken. There have been public appeals for that among other things both from LE and the Brown family.

 

[reedus23]

since anonymous became involved in this case there is a lot of info being released but none of it can be posted here...

Unfortunately, true. Not only did they release the police chief's address and home phone number, they released the name of his wife and children, placing them in danger as well. I hope that they have gone to family or friends outside of the area. Though I haven't seen it with my own two eyes, it has been said that they (Anonymous) have released the name of the officer involved and believe I have seen a statement from the chief saying they've released the wrong name and now a cop that wasn't involved is receiving death threats.

 

[reedus23]

I think I will wait to see what evidence they find in and on the police car for starters. Also, with cell phone video being rampant and we have none?

I think most everyone is in agreement that the first shot or two came while the cop was inside his car. I think most agree there was some type of "confrontation" at the police car as well. The police have characterized it as Brown having pushed himself and the cop back into the police vehicle and struggling for his gun. Most of the witness statements describe it as the police officer reaching through the window in some fashion and grabbing Brown with Brown then freeing himself from the cop's grasp. I don't know if there will ever be more that we know than that.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Take it for what it's worth because I have no link, but apparently all of the witnesses agree with this version in one form or another. By that I mean, some saw different points of the confrontation, but when told together are all relatively consistent.

I wonder how many of those witnesses are credible. I imagine it will be a major undertaking to weed them out. They are friends and neighbors living in the same community and sometimes lines get blurred on what people think they saw. It's unfortunate the patrol car wasn't equipped with a dashboard cam.

 

[liljim]

I am going to guess no. They supposedly have collected a lot of phones, but haven't heard any word of a video having been taken. There have been public appeals for that among other things both from LE and the Brown family.

there are many people talking about a girl who signed over possession of her iphone to police and that it contained footage of the whole thing - but whenever anyone is asked for a reputable link, there is always some reason why they dont have one, im thinking it is a complete rumor right now. it keeps getting brought up but i have not seen anything resembling a source.

i only post in case others hear about it, i have looked and looked and i dont believe there is any confirmation anywhere.

 

[liljim]

the distance michael was from the cop car when he was shot and killed is going to be hard to explain, i suppose the story will be something like "he was trying to flee, i didnt know for sure if he was armed, he turned back towads me and i thought i saw a weapon..."

if any of the shots are in the back... idk, troubling.

most of all, from what we have heard right now, the cops story just does not add up. this kid just decided to attack a cop and try to steal his weapon? i guess you could argue that for whatever reason he was jsut fed up that day and wasnt going to take what he thought was unreasonable harassment from the police.

the multiple witness statements that would seem to support a different version of events seems much more plausible to me.

my mind is not made up by a long shot tho, but i hae a lot more problems understnding the cops version of events than i do the alternate version being presented by multiple people that i have no reason to suspect are lying or collaborating.

 

[reedus23]

I wonder how many of those witnesses are credible. I imagine it will be a major undertaking to weed them out. They are friends and neighbors living in the same community and sometimes lines get blurred on what people think they saw. It's unfortunate the patrol car wasn't equipped with a dashboard cam.

Agree about the dashboard cam, though I don't know if that would have shown anything if it was to the side of the vehicle. Maybe audio? Maybe see what led up to it?

As for witnesses, yes, all of that has to be sorted out. I suspect some will be more credible than others, but if they are all relatively consistent, I think this officer is in for trouble. As for friends and neighbors, I don't doubt that to some extent. But remember (not sure if I saw this posted, so not sure if it's known), he was actually in the area staying with his grandmother, not with his mom or his dad at the time. I'm not sure where his mom or his dad live.

 

[reedus23]

there are many people talking about a girl who signed over possession of her iphone to police and that it contained footage of the whole thing - but whenever anyone is asked for a reputable link, there is always some reason why they dont have one, im thinking it is a complete rumor right now. it keeps getting brought up but i have not seen anything resembling a source.

i only post in case others hear about it, i have looked and looked and i dont believe there is any confirmation anywhere.

In fact, I think the official response from LE to date has actually been that there has been no video found. To add to the confusion, the Brown's attorney and representative have asked that those things be turned in to them. While not saying, don't give it to LE, they certainly didn't include LE in the list of people who they should give it to.

 

[reedus23]

the distance michael was from the cop car when he was shot and killed is going to be hard to explain, i suppose the story will be something like "he was trying to flee, i didnt know for sure if he was armed, he turned back towads me and i thought i saw a weapon..."

if any of the shots are in the back... idk, troubling.

most of all, from what we have heard right now, the cops story just does not add up. this kid just decided to attack a cop and try to steal his weapon? i guess you could argue that for whatever reason he was jsut fed up that day and wasnt going to take what he thought was unreasonable harassment from the police.

the multiple witness statements that would seem to support a different version of events seems much more plausible to me.

my mind is not made up by a long shot tho, but i hae a lot more problems understnding the cops version of events than i do the alternate version being presented by multiple people that i have no reason to suspect are lying or collaborating.

The distance and the number of shots I think will be troublesome for LE to deal with. LE has confirmed that Brown was shot "more than a couple of times." I also have a hard time with a story of a kid, over being told to walk on the sidewalk, suddenly bum rushing the cop and trying to get his gun. Media reports suggest he was a good kid and I've tried to see if he had any criminal background but haven't been successful. I started to go through https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/base/welcome.do Missouri Casenet, just for St. Louis County but just too common of a name. Not sure about the rules on sleuthing him, because in one sense he can be seen as a victim and in another sense he's a criminal. If it's ok to do and anyone has access or ideas on how to find out, it would be much appreciated.

 

[reedus23]

Anonymous has now posted pictures from inside the police chief's house (guessing they took them from social media sites). Unfortunately, one of them included a picture of his son with a confederate flag hung prominently on the wall. Regardless of any of our views on such a flag being hung in his house, I think it's safe to say that the Ferguson community won't look kindly on it and is going to be incensed again, leading to more riots/looting tonight. I really wish outsiders would stop stoking the flames. There is a way of insuring that justice is served without sparking more flames.

 

[liljim]

did you see the youtube video of the guy in the yellow sports car driving around yelling nasty things at people, including "go back to africa"? he has supposedly been identified as a police officer, his license plate number was clearly visible in his other youtube videos... what a dolt. hopefully soon an unemployed dolt.

 

[reedus23]

did you see the youtube video of the guy in the yellow sports car driving around yelling nasty things at people, including "go back to africa"? he has supposedly been identified as a police officer, his license plate number was clearly visible in his other youtube videos... what a dolt. hopefully soon an unemployed dolt.

Have heard. Have not watched.

 

[SStarr33]

Anonymous has now posted pictures from inside the police chief's house (guessing they took them from social media sites). Unfortunately, one of them included a picture of his son with a confederate flag hung prominently on the wall. Regardless of any of our views on such a flag being hung in his house, I think it's safe to say that the Ferguson community won't look kindly on it and is going to be incensed again, leading to more riots/looting tonight. I really wish outsiders would stop stoking the flames. There is a way of insuring that justice is served without sparking more flames.

Is there a website to directly view what Anonymous has been doing?