MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[BayouBelle_LA]

i also see in one of those pictures what looks like an ordinary citizen walking down the street in perfectly normal attire, and he is having several automatic weapons pointed at him by what looks like a very militarized police squad.

in my opinion when i see that picture i dont think "hmmm what context can i put this picture in that makes it seem appropriate", i think "wow i sure hope that person is a bonafide suspect in a serious crime to have those kinds of weapons pointed at him walking down the street in the middle of the day in america"...

We can agree to disagree, respectfully. (people see different things when looking at the same photo) I don't see a man walking down the street, I see a man walking from a place he wasn't supposed to be, like private property. It's understandable that officers are on high alert, with citizens shooting at helicopters and pulling guns on policeman.

 

[Sonya610]

Have you ever tried to drive at night in certain parts of the city when people prefer to be in the street? If you're not from a big city you probably don't know what that's like. If you hit one of these people by accident, you know what will happen.

Yes, some of us do know. Worse, we know those folks walking in the street could mean your car will be slowed down and possibly attacked.

They aren't walking in the middle of the road because they aren't aware that they may be hit by passing cars, they are walking in the road to INTIMIDATE and show their dominance around cars that may be trying to drive down that road.

And yes, I have seen that sort of thing, when I have seen it I have stopped the car and put it in reverse OR otherwise gotten out of there as fast as possible.

 

[reedus23]

The reason why the officers are in the streets is because of un peaceful demonstrations, rioting, looting, burning, shooting. In the black and white photo all I see is officers on the street with dogs, the people on the side (hands in air) are protestors. That's the way they protest.

I think the point is, there was no need for LE to militarize themselves at the point in time that the photo with the dog was taken. That would include having the dogs snapping in their faces. What you can't see in that picture is the officers in complete riot gear in the area. I haven't bothered to follow up on it, but during the peaceful demonstrations Sunday afternoon (way before the first rock was thrown), some that were there (can't remember if it was the Alderman French or a media member) were tweeting updates as events occurred and they reported on two different occasions that kids were bit by the dogs. Take it for what it's worth. Probably shouldn't post that here because I haven't gone to see if it was ever put into print, but it was being tweeted by either reporters or that alderman from the scene.

Also, just so people know, though it's probably obvious, that photo has been altered to black and white for effect. Originally was in color.

 

[Tawny]

Why WOULDN'T the police be present and prepared? It was already an extremely tense situation with emotions running extremely high. It was an officer vs civilian shooting, they had to expect that there could be violence toward officers.

 

[octobermoon]

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08...on/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Just a CBS article that I didn't read. Just pulled it up for the picture. It looks like it is, in fact, the same uniforms/riot gear so I take it back. Both pictures appear to be from Ferguson.

The one pic is sourced in this slide show from the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/u...tml#slideshow/100000003051653/100000003051666

 

[reedus23]

There is nothing wrong with peacefully protesting.
There is also nothing wrong with being prepared if the peaceful nature of the protest goes downhill.

I feel like people are saying "People rioted BECAUSE the police were out in full tactical force." To me, that is not excusable. I'm on the side of peaceful protesting, but I can't really expect the police NOT to be prepared for the worst. JMO.

I think it is ok for one to say there is NO excuse for the rioting/looting and that all of those people should be fully prosecuted and yet at the same time take issue with LE unnecessarily militarizing the area at that point in time. Do I think that having such a show of force was antagonistic and unnecessarily added to the friction? My personal opinion is yes. Do I think that justifies or excuses the rioters/looters? No where close. They are criminals and should be treated as such.

 

[reedus23]

We can agree to disagree, respectfully. (people see different things when looking at the same photo) I don't see a man walking down the street, I see a man walking from a place he wasn't supposed to be, like private property. It's understandable that officers are on high alert, with citizens shooting at helicopters and pulling guns on policeman.

My only question is how can you tell he came from private property from that picture? The person is simply on the sidewalk...not even in the street. It's just a public sidewalk in what appears to be the middle of the day.

 

[liljim]

in my opinion, present and prepared does not equal walking around like militarized combat units in a war zone pointing your loaded automatic weapons at civilians who are not suspected of any crime other than being there, which has absolutely been documented.

in my opinion this is not defensible.

 

[Tawny]

I have my own opinions regarding militarization of police in general, but that's another thread for another day! LOL!

 

[reedus23]

The one pic is sourced in this slide show from the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/u...tml#slideshow/100000003051653/100000003051666

Many thanks. I questioned it because it appears to be taken during the middle of the day. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any violence during the day. I was actually up in the area on Monday and everything was peaceful during the day and the only police presence during that time were one, maybe two, police cars at various intersections diverting traffic. Certainly wasn't a war zone like that picture during the day. Maybe the camera lighting just makes it look to be during the daytime? I dunno but I would be shocked and frankly a bit disturbed if that picture was taken during the day. There's simply nothing going on during daytime hours that require full military regalia.

 

[Peliman]

Too much inflammatory rhetoric. How would these officers know a belligerent aggressive subject was unarmed before the confrontation?

 

[Yoda]

What if. Sincere question- what if LE did not have any officers at the protest? What would have happened? What if instead of being proactive LE was reactive? How much more damage could have been done by the rioters? If Mike's family stayed at the protest site until everyone dispersed would that have minimized the damage?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

My only question is how can you tell he came from private property from that picture? The person is simply on the sidewalk...not even in the street. It's just a public sidewalk in what appears to be the middle of the day.

The officers on the frontline are on the sidewalk and some of the officers are in the street. The man is not. Also the time stamp below picture says 6:02 am.

 

[liljim]

The officers on the frontline are on the sidewalk and some of the officers are in the street. The man is not. Also the time stamp below picture says 6:02 am.

are you referring to the timestamp on that twitter page which represents when, according to your local time zone, that page published that picture on their page?

if so, how is that relelvant?

 

[octobermoon]

The officers on the frontline are on the sidewalk and some of the officers are in the street. The man is not. Also the time stamp below picture says 6:02 am.

The photo was taken Monday night. See caption.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/u...tml#slideshow/100000003051653/100000003051666

 

[liljim]

The officers on the frontline are on the sidewalk and some of the officers are in the street. The man is not. Also the time stamp below picture says 6:02 am.

EDIT - he actually is right on the sidewalk, unmistakably seen in another angle of the same incident. looked like dirt to me initially but it is not, it is absolutely the sidewalk.

in my opinion, that mans feet are clearly inches (at most) away from what would be considered the sidewalk, he is just barely into what would normally be the grass area between a sidewalk and street, and there is no indication at all that he just came from private property... or any other place he "was not supposed to be". if anyone can specify what it is about that picture that gives the impression that this man was just on private property or somewhere he should not have been please do so.

people certainly can see what they want to see in images, and sometimes what they choose to see is very telling, in my opinion and not directed at any specific person, poster or otherwise...

 

[Sonya610]

Everyone aware of the QT that was looted and then torched?

Various articles are now saying he was RETURNING from a convenience store (unlike the original accounts that said he was walking to his Grandmother's house).

"Snitch" was apparently written on the QT that was looted/burned down, I am guessing it may be the same convenience store that Brown may have been walking home from.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/11/quikt...-fire-during-overnight-looting-near-ferguson/

Also note some members of the "community" have gotten coverage cleaning up that QT.

QT has a few hundred corporate owned stores, I do not believe any are franchised/privately owned (i.e. no personal vendetta). If the QT was targeted as a result of the MB death then apparently a LOT of local people know more than they are sharing.

 

[reedus23]

What if. Sincere question- what if LE did not have any officers at the protest? What would have happened? What if instead of being proactive LE was reactive? How much more damage could have been done by the rioters? If Mike's family stayed at the protest site until everyone dispersed would that have minimized the damage?

My personal opinion is that nothing or very little would have happened. QT burned with them there it would have burned with them not there. Listening to the scanner, a majority of all they could do was note the looting but just let it happen. There words more than once were, we're just gonna observe. So I don't think much more would have been done than what was done anyways. Additionally, nothing happened Saturday. Nothing happened Sunday morning. At the end of the day though, we'll never know for sure.

But when I look at what changed between Saturday and Sunday night, I can only think of 3 things. 1. The police came out with a larger show of force with riot gear and dogs despite no prior violence. 2. The police came out with their "version" of the incident and whether accurate or inaccurate in reality, it was contradictory to what all of the known witnesses had seen. 3. Simply more people became aware of the underlying incident in time.

In hindsight, what i wish would have occurred is that a smaller police presence would have occurred at the peaceful protest. No dogs. No riot gear. At the same time, have your full riot gear/dogs/military staged and ready but away from the area. Let things play out during the peaceful protests. If the Brown family and their supporters leave and the thugs continue to pile in, bring in the military.

 

[octobermoon]

Laura Hettiger KMOV
‏@LauraKHettiger
#BREAKING first official news release from #Ferguson PD since death of #MikeBrown @kmov pic.twitter.com/Z27k2DOm7J

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu7fEcHIUAExfKX.jpg

 

[liljim]

he could be returning from the convenience store AND walking to his grandmothers house at the time of the incident no?

there are rumors around what you are suggesting but so far the reason for the contact between the cop and the guys has only been reported as being because they were walking in the middle of the street, not anything related to the QT... maybe its rumor, maybe it will come out eventually. at this point it appears it is a tangential issue imo.