MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

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  • #1,081
I've seen this opinion in a few posts from different posters, so forgive me aa9951 for jumping off your post......

BBM
How did we all arrive at MB's body at 35 feet away? Did I miss something? 35 feet away from what? Where was OW while this shooting was taking place? Was OW in his car shooting? Was OW just standing there shooting? Was OW pursuing MB? Exactly how close/far was OW from MB while the shots are being fired? I honestly can't conclude where OW was in relation to MB's body on the ground. I could probably, with a bit of math, figure out where the car was but not OW.

-all MOO and stuff

Not sure where it was first stated, but found this.

Brown and Johnson fled, she said, and after another verbal exchange at a distance of about 35 feet, Brown charged at Wilson.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ferguson-witness-accounts-20140821-story.html

bbm
 
  • #1,082
I've seen this opinion in a few posts from different posters, so forgive me aa9951 for jumping off your post......

BBM
How did we all arrive at MB's body at 35 feet away? Did I miss something? 35 feet away from what? Where was OW while this shooting was taking place? Was OW in his car shooting? Was OW just standing there shooting? Was OW pursuing MB? Exactly how close/far was OW from MB while the shots are being fired? I honestly can't conclude where OW was in relation to MB's body on the ground. I could probably, with a bit of math, figure out where the car was but not OW.

-all MOO and stuff

Yes, I don't know where OW was in relation to MB either. That is a major question. But in numerous articles, it said MB's body was 35 feet away from OW's vehicle.
 
  • #1,083
I have a hard time believing the "charging" story too, but it is the only way OW can explain shooting him through the top of the head. From all eyewitnesses on the scene, he was crumbling and falling forward for the last few shots.
As soon as the tox screen came out, so did the crazy charging bull story.
Except *everyone knows* pot has the opposite effect
, so they are grasping at straws trying to make the victim of this shooting acting like a maniac.

Pot doesn't seem to have that opposite effect during the strong arm robbery. MB was NOT a "gentle giant" in that video, IMO.
 
  • #1,084
Now it's "I got my hands on my head?"

Did someone inform them that is what an officer would direct you to do, therefore,
it's a more recognized signal of surrender than "hands in the air" :rolleyes:
THAT IS is what MB needed to do to get OW to stop shooting.

All posts are MOO
 
  • #1,085
There would be some logic, at this point, to think he had just heard the BOLO strong arm robbery, holding the cigars, would influence the notion that there is a propensity to behave in an aggressive manner. This can be further confirmed, later by the video, that was a correct notion regarding the strong arm event in and of itself.

Moreover , I remember when I first saw video I thought god he is not even trying to hide the cigars.Blantly and slowly exiting the store with stolen item. Quite a sense of entitlement and certainly indicates no respect for law. That criminal mind set is further reinforced seconds later when he shoves the owner out of the way to get out and still feels a need after he made space to exit to step back in for another aggresive behavior ..

The Chief reported a trip to hospital needed at the onset .. There is no way at that point they could have known this was going to become what it has. BY that I mean, it cant be " go to hospital to cover for yourself". Many in the media seem to forget that a trip to the hospital was required.

. Is it hard for the media to not consider that the officer had a pretty solid reason to (no matter what the intent of the turn around was in those 2 seconds) to conclude he was in danger. Link just posted earlier - a shot WAS fired in the vehicle. A gun going off within 6 inches of body would increase my anxiety.

After I had an encounter with someone that has something to do withh a gunshot in MY vehicle - did something that resulted in me going to a hospital I think it might be ok for me to, seconds later, believe I might get hurt again.

I would be further frightened by , in the seconds the first few shots were fired, and they seemed not to be having an impact, that would add to my fear.

Add in his size --and all the events outlined above it makes sense that multiple shots were needed to feel safe IMO

So if I add up the data I had during that lets say 30 second total event Ihad:


Two guys defying the law by just walking down the street not on sidewalk.
It would make sense to me that , after, just committing a felony, I would not be happy to see LE.So the notion that the two were polite at the onset might be a long shot IMO

Several links ago I confirmed via link that a shot was indeed fired in my car. I would think that would too, would create anxiety.

Then I see people fleeing- ignore my request not to do so. I would think it is not a far out conclusion to conclude that the officer did not say bye! Therefore defiance , again , could be valid conclusion at this point. IMO


l.
I agree, MB was shot in the top of the head, this means he was shot as he was falling down, unless it is found this bullet entered at a distance of a few feet.
 
  • #1,086
So are you saying that you honestly believe that this police officer, with not one single complaint ever filed against him, decided to shoot an unarmed teenager dead while he was surrendering with his hands in the air begging for mercy? Not judging. I just want to make sure that I've got your side of it correct.

Yes, and if you read much outside of here, I am one of many thousands who thinks it is very possible. Things like this have happened before.

I grew up with cops, and many were fine, but.......some people are hot headed, and can't handle the job. I have a cousin that had the worst temprement for it- loved to intimidate people for kicks, bad temper. Got in a lot of "scapes" but never was written up once.

The adrenaline that shoots through you after firing a weapon can make you absolutely manic. My brother was a union delegate for almost 30 years and saw both sides of this, many cops were accused of things they did not do, but quite a few abused their power too. Too many drank and appeared to abuse cocaine or steroids. It would take quite a bit of questionable behavior before any cop lost the benefit of the doubt from their fellow officers. It's just how they do, protecting their own.
 
  • #1,087
Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 11m
Rapper "Common" who at the VMA's asked audience for moment of silence #MikeBrown at scene of shooting. #fergsuon
Bv_JpklCUAAITG3.jpg

Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 1m
Rapper Common and #MikeBrown biological father embrace at scene of shooting. #Ferguson
Bv_MfsxIcAAU_mF.jpg
 
  • #1,088
If an officer is assaulted in his car, would it not be normal for him to get out, and go after the suspect? He IS an officer.
The guy HAD just shoplifted and intimadated the store keeper. What would have happened if the little man in the store had had a gun? Different story then, huh?
I'd like to hear from some teachers and others in the community, was this guy a big bully?
My heart breaks for the parents. But sometimes your teenage child makes a bad decision, and the costs are huge.
 
  • #1,089
I think its hard for the media to like try to make everything like slow motion. We just found out the whole thing took 8 seconds from the audio today. So if one was assulted (a cop no less) by one huge dude 8 seconds earlier , I would think it might be reasonable to conclude that this person is capable of violence.

Stuff had to decided in seconds. I think the media reprots it like it was this long drawn out "event" - 8 seconds-- stuff is moving quick - although no shots in back, lets even go with (I dont know how anyone could conclude on is surrending from a distance , but lets roll with it -- there would be some logic, at this point, to think tI just heard the BOLO strong arm robbery, short time needing a trip[ to the hospital . Is it hard for the media to not consider that the officer had a pretty solid reason to (no matter what the intent of the turn around was in those 2 seconds) to conclude he was in danger. After I had an encounter with someone that did somehting that resulted in me going to a hospital I think it might be ok for me to, seconds later, I might get hurt again. Add in his size it makes sense that multiple shots were needed to feel safe IMO

I agree with the slow-motion part, but that happens in every single trial. They pick apart the murder/killing into minutes and sometimes seconds. So I think that's just the natural process of investigation and trying to figure out what happened.

But I'm sure jurors would also take that into consideration. JMO.
 
  • #1,090
In St. Louis County, a spokesman for McCulloch's office, Ed Magee, said all homicide cases go before a grand jury.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0821-ferguson-grand-jury-20140821-story.html



re It just seems like lies are circling all around.

I think the end that in a regular court will be none of it makes sense so we have to throw out all the
witness statements

IMO it will go to trial - it does not matter what the grand concludes or says

LA Times:

If the grand jury decides not to issue an indictment.......... the Justice Department could still file federal charges against him.



http://articles.latimes.com/1985-04-...8_1_grand-jury

I chuckled like the way you wrote it
I always say if someone wants to commit a murder, come out here. No one would even pay any attention to some gunshots.

just a guess pls how many would have to go off before someone noticed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am totally anti gun. Totally. When someone continues to shoot off round after round, the noise gets annoying.

I figure they are shooting at a critter, doing target practice, or getting away with murder. I hope a closer neighbor will call it in if there truly is an issue.

There is no point in getting stressed over it unless it goes on too long. Then I want them to stop the noise. I imagine it must freak out Veterans.
 
  • #1,091
http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/

I just ran across this very insightful article. I personally feel that every person in America needs to read it. While YES - we all have rights, but when confronting an (armed) officer of the law, it is always wise to refrain from being confrontational.

From the article: (I'm a Cop - If you Don't Want to Get Hurt Don't Challenge Me)

"Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."

Good article, but it can be viewed from another perspective as well. Maybe there is a reason why many police officers hear these insults so frequently. MAYBE the articles title could be "if you're a cop and don't want to have to hurt anybody, don't be so damn aggressive before you even know what I'm up to or what kind of person I am" ..... In other words, don't look at me and see the colour of my skin, the clothes I wear, my hairstyle, the way I talk, the music I listen to etch.. And ASSUME you know what kind of person I am.
IMO, JMO, MOO
 
  • #1,092
  • #1,093
I've seen this opinion in a few posts from different posters, so forgive me aa9951 for jumping off your post......

BBM
How did we all arrive at MB's body at 35 feet away? Did I miss something? 35 feet away from what? Where was OW while this shooting was taking place? Was OW in his car shooting? Was OW just standing there shooting? Was OW pursuing MB? Exactly how close/far was OW from MB while the shots are being fired? I honestly can't conclude where OW was in relation to MB's body on the ground. I could probably, with a bit of math, figure out where the car was but not OW.

-all MOO and stuff
We don't know how far away he was. That's the point. If you don't know how far away he was then you can't ASSUME MB was in some linebacker mode... Because if MB was 35 feet away, or 30 feet, or 20 feet or 10 feet even... It doesn't make sense that he would be making like a linebacker. In fact it doesn't make sense that he would charge officer Wilson AT ALL unless he was suicidal... I have seen nothing yet to show us he was at all suicidal.
 
  • #1,094
Good article, but it can be viewed from another perspective as well. Maybe there is a reason why many police officers hear these insults so frequently. MAYBE the articles title could be "if you're a cop and don't want to have to hurt anybody, don't be so damn aggressive before you even know what I'm up to or what kind of person I am" ..... In other words, don't look at me and see the colour of my skin, the clothes I wear, my hairstyle, the way I talk, the music I listen to etch.. And ASSUME you know what kind of person I am.
IMO, JMO, MOO

Yes, the article gives good advice on how to live if you run into a bad cop. It touched on it briefly, but the brunt of the article didn't address how to rid our community of bad cops. Or at least limit their presence. Nor what changes can be made to hold them more accountable when they do decide to cross the line.
 
  • #1,095
LE Officer involved shooting is diff b/c - diff MO statutes apply

Don't get me wrong, a part of me agrees with what you are saying. But part of me says, how is an officer involved shooting any different than any other case.....
. SBM

Defense of Person, MO statute re how much force is lawful to defend self
re: non-LEO shooting, one statute applies;
re: LEO shooting, other section applies.

Also MO statute re assault on LEO is diff from assault on non-LEO.
Boytownmom (sp?) did long post on that & quoted MO statute. IDK when, just past couple days, IIRC.

I did long post on this yesterday & quoted both sections of MO statute (not my summary, the actual law).
Maybe you or other can search by my username, locate it, cut and paste it in this thread.
Gotta leave for several hrs, but can look myself when I get back.

Reedus23, TY for your thoughtful consideration of these issues.
Every day on W/S, I learn something new.
Seeya.
 
  • #1,096
Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 1m
Common and #mikebrown biological dad now talking one-on-one. He's here to find out how he can help he says.
View attachment 57592

Interested to hear what they come up with.


Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 14s
#ferguson
View attachment 57593

IMO, it's great that a star is giving up his own time for something he really believes in. No matter what side of the issue, I respect this from a big celebrity. It's really easy to send out a tweet which takes like 5 seonds, it's a different thing to take out your own personal time.

JMO.
 
  • #1,097
If it is found out that Wilson killed MB because MB was "mocking" him (as said by anonymous radio show caller, which is being taken as a credible source here lol), then Wilson is going to jail.
IMO, MOO, JMO
 
  • #1,098
If it is found out that Wilson killed MB because MB was "mocking" him (as said by anonymous radio show caller, which is being taken as a credible source here lol), then Wilson is going to jail.
IMO, MOO, JMO

Can you provide me with the link to to what the anonymous caller is saying?
 
  • #1,099
LE Officer involved shooting is diff b/c - diff MO statutes apply

. SBM

Defense of Person, MO statute re how much force is lawful to defend self
re: non-LEO shooting, one statute applies;
re: LEO shooting, other section applies.

Also MO statute re assault on LEO is diff from assault on non-LEO.
Boytownmom (sp?) did long post on that & quoted MO statute. IDK when, just past couple days, IIRC.

I did long post on this yesterday & quoted both sections of MO statute (not my summary, the actual law).
Maybe you or other can search by my username, locate it, cut and paste it in this thread.
Gotta leave for several hrs, but can look myself when I get back.

Reedus23, TY for your thoughtful consideration of these issues.
Every day on W/S, I learn something new.
Seeya.

Many thanks. I have read the justification statutes and certainly understand there is an additional one for LEO. It incorporates the non-LEO justification and then also expands it for LEO.

The issue I was talking about was a little bit different, and that is how a prosecuting attorney handles a GJ and how it should be consistent whether a civilian is involved or a LEO. He shouldn't put on the hat of defense counsel only when LEO is involved and not when an ordinary citizen is involved.

I hope you read this so you don't spend time looking for it. I certainly get the laws are different and the elements of each are different. Thank you as always.
 
  • #1,100
They'll go broke. They get more than 2/3 of their income from fines and court penalties!
I can provide a link for that later, if you'd like?
:) Thanks!
I don't need a link.
 
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