MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[LambChop]

Is this the statement he gave the detectives:

Just 20 minutes before the shooting, Johnson said he saw Brown walking down the street and decided to catch up with him. The two walked and talked. That’s when Johnson says they saw the police car rolling up to them.

The officer demanded that the two “get the f—k on the sidewalk,” Johnson says. “His exact words were get the f—k on the sidewalk.”


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

So would LE consider this a misstatement to them?

 

[Truthy]

I oftentimes wonder if the general public has any idea what LEOs deal with on a daily basis, from those they've sworn to serve and protect.

My brother was NYPD for more than 30 years, and handled civilian complaints about officers. I know the worst of both sides of it, and because of that I cannot rightly imagine the cop is always in the right. It's a tough job, there's a lot of burn out, skirting the rules, and tons of bias against any young man that lives in a high crime community.

I was shocked the LEO there hid their badges, in NYC, there'd be disciplinary action over that, and threatening to kill protesters, pointing rifles into the crowd? I think they came off very badly, and yet I know it's not every local cop. But half the badges covered, and refusing to ID yourself- this is okay but jaywalking is big deal? Wrong priorities. There were too many cops involved in those aggressive shenanigans to give that force the total benefit of the doubt.

 

[DebinGA]

I just watched it again -- I guess it's a matter of how you look at things. After shoving the clerk, he's walking out the door, but then reenters to tower over the clerk in a threatening fashion.

I think that tactic was MB's modus operandi. Per the NYT:

"Mr. Brown rarely got into physical confrontations, [MB childhood friend] Mr. Lewis said, because he was so big that nobody really wanted to test him. Mr. Brown tended to use his size to scare away potential trouble, Mr. Lewis said." “He’ll swell up like, ‘I’m mad,’ and you’ll back off,” he said

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
Why didn't he know? It was broadcast.

11:57 – A police dispatcher broadcasts a detailed description of the robbery suspect, saying that he was wearing a red (St. Louis) Cardinals ball cap and yellow socks and was walking with another man toward another convenience store called QuikTrip.

12:00 – Officer Wilson leaves the scene of the call about a sick child.

12:01 – Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown walking on a street and the shooting follows...


http://jaspercountyinnews.com/timeli...michael-brown/

All posts are MOO

Perhaps he was still engaged with the sick call and didn't hear the broadcast.

Or maybe DW/OW instantly did know that MB and DJ were the likely suspects in the strong armed robbery and was buying time for backup, using a deflection of the jaywalking admonition to prevent them from running, or to protect other citizens in vehicles happening up on the scene.. Or a combination of the three
strategies.. Imo, DW/OW would have heard the police dispatcher broadcasting the detailed description of the robbery suspect/s on his handi talkie, and would have likely affirmed his location and his intention of responding, to the dispatcher.. jmo

 

[CoolJ]

Um, yes.

So could a LEO be reprimanded for shooting into a residential area in broad daylight, especially if his suspect was fleeing? What is more dangerous, stray bullets, or an unarmed man who may have robbed a store?

 

[Oceans]

IMO it is unethical for these lawyers (he now has two!) to allow him to speak to the media. They should have DJ's interests and ONLY DJ's interest in mind, instead from the interview the lawyers seem to be pushing the Brown family narrative.

Throughout most of the interview the lawyers cut-off any questions from Lemon regarding details of the shooting but near the end of the interview DJ spills some details I find interesting. He said he keeps thinking about his friend and how MB was concerned for DJ's safety; "even after he was injured he is telling me to get to safety".

If DJ is telling the truth this suggests to me that MB was injured during the struggle for the gun inside the SUV and that the injury was most likely the gash wound in the right hand. If in fact this happened MB's blood would be inside and around the SUV. If on the other hand it turns out that MB was not injured in the struggle for the gun inside the SUV - there is no way that he could tell DJ to "get to safety" after the 8 second volley of gunfire that ended in an instantaneous fatal shot to the head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbyGwbcyOWs

I agree. I believe as well that MB got the gash on his hand while struggling with ODW over his gun.

Here is an excerpt what DJ told in a previous interview:

At that moment, Johnson says he fixed his gaze on the officer to see if he was pulling a stun gun or a real gun. That’s when he saw the muzzle of the officer’s gun.

“I seen the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend,” he said. “He had it pointed at him and said ‘I’ll shoot,’ one more time.”

A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.

“I seen the fire come out of the barrell,” he said. “I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.”

Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

“The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off,” Johnson noted.

Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.

“Keep running, bro!,” he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson’s friend, “Big Mike,” would ever say to him.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

 

[jmcgladr]

Or maybe DW/OW instantly did know that MB and DJ were the likely suspects in the strong armed robbery and was buying time for backup, using a deflection of the jaywalking admonition to prevent them from running, or to protect other citizens in vehicles happening up on the scene.. Or a combination of the three
strategies.. Imo, DW/OW would have heard the police dispatcher broadcasting the detailed description of the robbery suspect/s on his handi talkie, and would have likely affirmed his location and his intention of responding, to the dispatcher.. jmo

Protect them from what, exactly? A robbery suspect armed with stolen cigars? There would be no reason for MB to hurt the civilians around him. He had already gotten what he wanted. He wanted to go home, he didn't want to attack the folks around him. And he was unarmed.

 

[popsicle]

Is it just me... Or does the audio mean very little?

I can see how both sides would like to spin it...but in reality it proves nothing...IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it might be beneficial to investigators when looking at OW's version of events but to the general public... nada.

 

[Truthy]

Do people normally bother to file such complaints, especially in a largely African American neighborhood with a largely white police force where negative interactions with police and distrust of police would be commonplace and just considered a way of life?

My brother's job was to talk people into withdrawing their complaints. (Also defending against false complaints) When the LEO was known to be a jerk who might have done it, they would still try to get civilians to drop the complaint and "deal with it" internally. Which meant a clean record, but somewhere down the line you'd maybe lose the benefit of the doubt. There were a few times he regretted saving the officer's butts, I'll tell you that. Cops are under a lot of stress, they have emotional and substance abuse problems and crack just like everyone else, if not more. They just aren't allowed to admit it and keep their jobs.

 

[SStarr33]

So could a LEO be reprimanded for shooting into a residential area in broad daylight, especially if his suspect was fleeing? What is more dangerous, stray bullets, or an unarmed man who may have robbed a store?

the rules about use of deadly force have been posted ad nauseam. And I'm sure all of the circumstances need to be taken into consideration.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Uh, because MB ended up being shot at 10 or 11 times and ended up with 6 bullets including one to the head and also ended up dead.

Something caused either MB or OW to react to something.

And I don't think that something was "Young men, would you please move over to the sidewalk?"

And I don't think MB would respond to the ^^^ polite request by starting to attack a police officer of all people, for God's sake.

Curious as to what you think the reason was for MB to attack the police officer. Is there any good excuse to attack a police officer? Victim mentality gets old. Whatever happened to responsibility and accountability.

 

[jmcgladr]

So could a LEO be reprimanded for shooting into a residential area in broad daylight, especially if his suspect was fleeing? What is more dangerous, stray bullets, or an unarmed man who may have robbed a store?

Exactly! The answer to that question is glaringly obvious. If OW fired the shots and there was not an immediate threat to his life that caused him to do so, he was in the wrong, IMO. Especially since this was in a residential area filled with people who could have been hurt or killed by stray bullets, as you pointed out.

 

[Tawny]

Protect them from what, exactly? A robbery suspect armed with stolen cigars? There would be no reason for MB to hurt the civilians around him. He had already gotten what he wanted. He wanted to go home, he didn't want to attack the folks around him. And he was unarmed.

So. Let them go because they "just" stole cigars? ETA: Nobody had any way of knowing he was done and "wanted to go home." For all anyone knew, he could have continued on a robbery spree or something. No evidence of that, but it's just as much an assumption as saying he had gotten what he wanted and was skipping along on home all peaceful like. JMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think that tactic was MB's modus operandi. Per the NYT:

"Mr. Brown rarely got into physical confrontations, [MB childhood friend] Mr. Lewis said, because he was so big that nobody really wanted to test him. Mr. Brown tended to use his size to scare away potential trouble, Mr. Lewis said." “He’ll swell up like, ‘I’m mad,’ and you’ll back off,” he said

Yep that was apparent to me when he towered over and bullied the store owner...figured thats how MB handled people.

 

[CARIIS]

And then, afterwe all see the store video video:

a kid who tried football his sophomore year but abandoned the idea before his first game, fearing he might hurt someone.

just my opin but I have not seen any indicator of some gentle giant !

Also someone mentiolned that there were two angles in store --I have only seen one - i would like to see the other if anyone can find it TIA

http://www.stltoday.com/news/state-...cle_ef3f3d14-c53b-59c0-a59f-dfb4ed8baddb.html

I think that tactic was MB's modus operandi. Per the NYT:

"Mr. Brown rarely got into physical confrontations, [MB childhood friend] Mr. Lewis said, because he was so big that nobody really wanted to test him. Mr. Brown tended to use his size to scare away potential trouble, Mr. Lewis said." “He’ll swell up like, ‘I’m mad,’ and you’ll back off,” he said

 

[katydid23]

Uh, because MB ended up being shot at 10 or 11 times and ended up with 6 bullets including one to the head and also ended up dead.

Something caused either MB or OW to react to something.

And I don't think that something was "Young men, would you please move over to the sidewalk?"

And I don't think MB would respond to the ^^^ polite request by starting to attack a police officer of all people, for God's sake.

Why not? NOTHING that MB did that day makes any rational sense. He was acting stupid, aggressive and irrational BEFORE the officer even came onto the scene. Why would he suddenly be all logical and calm?

We have plenty of evidence showing that MB was acting aggressive and irrational in the minutes leading up to the interaction with the cop.

We have no evidence that the cop was acting in an aggressive or irrational way. And NO evidence in his 6 yrs with the force of even a citizen complaint against him.

So why do you keep insisting upon making him the villain here?

Besides, MB's response was most likely self preservation. he didn't want to get arrested with the cigarillos on him. So he made the impulsive decision to do what he was used to doing---use his size and strength. So when the cop tried to get out of the car MB rushed him. Once that happened, it was a point of no return.

It is funny that you keep saying he would never attack a cop--but why did they walk down the middle of the road, blocking traffic, holding stolen cigs, and NOT get out of the road when asked by the cop? Does that seem rational at all?

I am waiting for the full fox screen cuz I think he was on something that made him out of touch with reality. jmo :cow:

 

[jmcgladr]

So. Let them go because they "just" stole cigars? ETA: Nobody had any way of knowing he was done and "wanted to go home." For all anyone knew, he could have continued on a robbery spree or something. No evidence of that, but it's just as much an assumption as saying he had gotten what he wanted and was skipping along on home all peaceful like. JMO

No. Arrest them, if there is probable cause. Let the justice system mete out the punishment. If it is not safe to arrest them without gunfire, call for backup and arrest them with backup. Shoot him to death? No. Not valid punishment for a robbery, especially an unarmed one. IMO.

 

[Truthy]

I agree- it's just that I don;t start with the position of automaticaly giving either he or Brown the benefit of the doubt. Especially given that fellow officers skirted the law hiding their IDs and acted inappropriately threatening to shoot and pointing weapons at the crowd. Too many cops there were happy to skirt the law and treat ordinary citizens like "animals".
I cannot imagine what police force would allow such behavior, but it was way too common in that town. Scary stuff.

 

[popsicle]

I think I have spent too much time with LEO to hold them in higher regard than the average citizen. And this local force- hiding their badges and refusing to follow the law and ID themselves while arresting journalists, threatening to shoot protesters and pointing rifles into big crowds that include children? I think there's a serious problem when so many LEOs skirting the law caught on tape. A more serious problem than jay walking, that's for sure. JMHO.

There were articles posted that explained why they hid their name tags and refused to ID themselves. Their computers and devices had been hacked and their info compromised, social media etc, FBI has been investigating. None of them wanted to publicly ID who they are and I don't blame them. jmo

 

[Tawny]

No. Arrest them, if there is probable cause. Let the justice system mete out the punishment. If it is not safe to arrest them without gunfire, call for backup and arrest them with backup. Shoot him to death? No. Not valid punishment for a robbery, especially an unarmed one. IMO.

I'm assuming that was the intention when OW was attempting to get out of his vehicle and the boys shoved the door of the car back at him. JMO