MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[CoolJ]

Do people normally bother to file such complaints, especially in a largely African American neighborhood with a largely white police force where negative interactions with police and distrust of police would be commonplace and just considered a way of life?

Your right. It is probably engrained into many communities these days that reporting police misconduct just gets swept aside..... This is why people decide to protest for days on end.... They are at the point where they feel it is the only way to get their voices heard. IMO, JMO, MOO

 

[SStarr33]

Exactly! The answer to that question is glaringly obvious. If OW fired the shots and there was not an immediate threat to his life that caused him to do so, he was in the wrong, IMO. Especially since this was in a residential area filled with people who could have been hurt or killed by stray bullets, as you pointed out.

Would you like the link to the information on use of deadly force?

 

[SStarr33]

Protect them from what, exactly? A robbery suspect armed with stolen cigars? There would be no reason for MB to hurt the civilians around him. He had already gotten what he wanted. He wanted to go home, he didn't want to attack the folks around him. And he was unarmed.

Did he tell you that?

 

[CoolJ]

the rules about use of deadly force have been posted ad nauseam. And I'm sure all of the circumstances need to be taken into consideration.

That's what I am thinking, that, whoever is investigating this shooting needs to consider whether or not he should have shot at all, regardless of what happened in the car.

 

[DebinGA]

To believe DJ means that Ofc. Wilson held the struggling gentle giant against the side of his cruiser using his left hand/arm, and simultaneously, with only his right arm/hand, fought to keep his gun from being taken by the much bigger MB who had the use of both his arms/hands, plus leverage from his standing position, and succeeded, despite being throttled by the gentle giant during the tussle?

 

[Tawny]

That's what I am thinking, that, whoever is investigating this shooting needs to consider whether or not he should have shot at all, regardless of what happened in the car.

If reports are true, he showed violence, attacking an officer. OW now has a duty to protect innocent civilians who may happen upon MB's path.

 

[Bernina]

Do people normally bother to file such complaints, especially in a largely African American neighborhood with a largely white police force where negative interactions with police and distrust of police would be commonplace and just considered a way of life?

Filing a complaint against an LEO is a HUGE task, even in a predominately white area. Been there, done that. If you don't basically "camp out" in front of the LE agency, the complaint goes in the "circular file". Prepare to have an attorney to circumvent the hemming and hawing.
*This coming from someone who has LEO and convicted felons in their extended family, no bias, just experience.

 

[CoolJ]

Curious as to what you think the reason was for MB to attack the police officer. Is there any good excuse to attack a police officer? Victim mentality gets old. Whatever happened to responsibility and accountability.

No good excuse to attack anyone let alone a cop. But there is no evidence yet that he did attack Wilson. What if Wilson attacked him first? What if Wilson stuck a gun in his face because he didn't like being disobeyed and MB grabbed that gun.... I think I would do the same... I think it would be human instinct.

 

[reedus23]

May have been...I'm not buying Brady's story much more than the others. Eyewitness testimony should be clean...so far, none has passed the smell test for me.

This isn't directed at you, just a general observation of those who believe the cop used excessive force. They built their belief based on eyewitnesses that have been largely discredited. Few have adjusted their belief for the lies, embellishments, and impossibilities of the first three, they just pick up the one that fits in the moment. Why didn't the other three see what Brady did and vice versa?

When I've been asked questions the other way, I've tried to respond. I've just been asked very few questions. Wonder why no one wants to discuss the tough questions...it's a phenomenon I've seen in the PP...as if acknowledging some part of the story is flawed means the whole thing is shot so they just ignore it.

If eyewitness versions matched up step for step, I'd have a much bigger concern. Frankly, I think if you piece them all together, along with what we think we know of the cop's version, I don't know if there is a whole lot of differences.

*Cop approached them about being in the street (DJ, FPD and cop's wife's friend all say this)
*There is some question to if the cop moved on and came back or not, but I'd suggest there's not a lot of meaning either way. (DJ and cop's wife's friend say this)
*There was a confrontation at the car. I think most either say this or don't say either way. The nature and extent of that is unknown at this point, though we've heard descriptions from both sides.
*There was a shot fired from within the car. DJ and PD agree.
*MB disengaged the officer, moving himself at least 35 feet from the car. I think everyone agrees with this.
*The officer exited his vehicle and fired as MB was disengaging/fleeing but no bullets struck him in the back
*MB stopped fleeing at some point and turned back to the officer.
*MB was shot several more times.

I'm sure I'm missing something but those basic facts, don't they all pretty much agree on? Obviously the big facts where there will be disagreement is what was MB doing after he turned around.

What is PP if I can show my stupidity again? And what tough questions do you want me to ask? I'd be more than happy to discuss.

 

[Truthy]

I don't think that "fear" makes hiding your ID legal if you are a uniformed officer on the job. And you are not supposed to refuse to ID yourself to those arrested, as they did with journalists. They will be awash in lawsuits over those things, as they should be.

 

[LambChop]

Reporting Police Misconduct


If you feel that police have violated your rights, or you’ve witnessed police misconduct against someone else, do not panic. It’s normal to feel intimidated. But responding to misconduct is an essential step towards protecting yourself and your community from future police abuse.


http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/how-to-report-police-misconduct/

Not sure it was mentioned but you can go higher, State Police, local representative, etc.

 

[CoolJ]

So. Let them go because they "just" stole cigars? ETA: Nobody had any way of knowing he was done and "wanted to go home." For all anyone knew, he could have continued on a robbery spree or something. No evidence of that, but it's just as much an assumption as saying he had gotten what he wanted and was skipping along on home all peaceful like. JMO

No, not let him go, but maybe don't gun him down. He's got a description, he can come find him later... Just don't open fire in the middle of the street in the middle of the day.

 

[CARIIS]

I do not understand why media is still trying to figure out if audio today is important. If valid, for me it answered a question that they have been asking since day two.

How much time passed. How much time did officer have to acess scene. When I heard 8 seconds that meant a lot to me , not much time after being assalted (he went hospital so something happened to him!).

So just for that fact if it is real that is vital and I think the defense will use it for sure - it indicates that it was a confusing, fast paced situaion wherein if one feels afraid firing shots makes sense. And IMO the pause is songruent with the radio call in that she said he was surprised that his shots did not seem to stop him at all.

The pause adds up in that context , and in a court IMO officer was not trying to kill him , he waited , to evaluate if the had to fire any more before feeling safe, when he turned around (does not matter if for hands up or to lunge) in a mini second someone you have been firing at (who just assulted you ) is not going down and turning around I think I would fire some more too IMO

 

[jmcgladr]

Would you like the link to the information on use of deadly force?

No thanks. I am more than capable of looking up such info myself. <modsnip>

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LambChop]

I don't think that "fear" makes hiding your ID legal if you are a uniformed officer on the job. And you are not supposed to refuse to ID yourself to those arrested, as they did with journalists. They will be awash in lawsuits over those things, as they should be.

I can't find the link but I believe the Chief requested that ID be removed because police officer's families were being threatened because people were writing their names and ID numbers down. Let me see if I can find a link.

 

[reedus23]

If that's true, wouldn't MB's family make every effort in their power to clear this up, like calling for and giving their permission for the release of any criminal records, knowing there aren't any?

If I saw the public crucifying my dead son, no, I wouldn't help them in their cause. If they get it, they get it, but don't come asking me for help when I just buried my son.

 

[CoolJ]

To believe DJ means that Ofc. Wilson held the struggling gentle giant against the side of his cruiser using his left hand/arm, and simultaneously, with only his right arm/hand, fought to keep his gun from being taken by the much bigger MB who had the use of both his arms/hands, plus leverage from his standing position, and succeeded, despite being throttled by the gentle giant during the tussle?

Whether DJ was telling the truth or lying through his teeth does not justify the shooting.

 

[JLSChook]

Protect them from what, exactly? A robbery suspect armed with stolen cigars? There would be no reason for MB to hurt the civilians around him. He had already gotten what he wanted. He wanted to go home, he didn't want to attack the folks around him. And he was unarmed.

Can I have a link for the bolded parts please.

 

[Bernina]

Reporting Police Misconduct


If you feel that police have violated your rights, or you&#8217;ve witnessed police misconduct against someone else, do not panic. It&#8217;s normal to feel intimidated. But responding to misconduct is an essential step towards protecting yourself and your community from future police abuse.


http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/how-to-report-police-misconduct/

Not sure it was mentioned but you can go higher, State Police, local representative, etc.

If you've had to do it, it's called "Going up the Food Chain". And it becomes such a PITA, most people give up. Filing a complaint against an officer is almost impossible unless you have audio and video of the "incident".
If you happen to tell a LE that they are being "recorded", their demeanor will quickly change if they were not too, say, polite or accommodating.

My BIL, retired LE, gave me that advice.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

No good excuse to attack anyone let alone a cop. But there is no evidence yet that he did attack Wilson. What if Wilson attacked him first? What if Wilson stuck a gun in his face because he didn't like being disobeyed and MB grabbed that gun.... I think I would do the same... I think it would be human instinct.

That's a whole lot of "ifs". I'd rather stick with what I know.