MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[DebinGA]

Can't get over the nerve of the Salt Lake City Police Chief castigating the StLC/Ferguson police for wearing riot gear as they faced roiling/calling for DW's death crowds/looters/bottles of urine/molotov cocktail throwing "protestors"... so unlike the peaceful LE response in SLC to the 100 of so sit-on-the-grass-quietly-and-look-sad contingent of protesters. Good grief.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Thanks cady, I understand
But......

I'm still curious as to why this audio tape was so HUGE that the Brown attorneys were all over it like it was the answer to their prayers? As if this audio was going to prove OW's guilt. I watched them on tv when this breaking news came out on CNN and they were almost foaming at the mouth with excitement. THEN, all of a sudden a complete 180??

Why aren't the Brown attorneys still happy about this audio tape? I watched, I think it was Parks? and DJ, on a talk show stating that they think that this audio doesn't mean much. CNN stating it might be a hoax.

I dunno, I think it's really really strange.

IMO, CNN will say whatever they want them to say. If tomorrow Crump decides he really does like that audio, CNN will say we had a tech expert on staff review it and we still can't confirm, but he seems to think it's authentic, in which case, again, this is a bombshell.

 

[Dana]

Can't get over the nerve of the Salt Lake City Police Chief castigating the StLC/Ferguson police for wearing riot gear as they faced roiling/calling for DW's death crowds/looters/bottles of urine/molotov cocktail throwing "protestors"... so unlike the peaceful LE response in SLC to the 100 of so sit-on-the-grass-quietly-and-look-sad contingent of protesters. Good grief.

Silly me, I always thought the police wore riot gear for a riot. They did in the 60's too.

 

[Dana]

IMO, CNN will say whatever they want them to say. If tomorrow Crump decides he really does like that audio, CNN will say we had a tech expert on staff review it and we still can't confirm, but he seems to think it's authentic, in which case, again, this is a bombshell.

Yeah, I completely understand CNN, it's breaking news if it rains or the grass is growing. I just can't figure out those Brown attorneys and the 180 they did on this audio.

 

[EvilSoup]

Not sure if serious or sarcastic. You saying it is ok for police to disregard constitutional rights because they have a tough job? Or that there is no such thing as an unconstitutional request/order from a police officer because whatever an officer says is constitutional regardless of what is in the constitution itself? That anyone who doesn't think constitutional rights should be trampled simply have their panties in a wad? I'm not talking about simple instructions to turn your stereo down because it's too loud this late at night. What that comment I bolded suggests is that it is ok for that officer that stops you for a traffic ticket to also order you to let him squeeze your breasts, as one courageous poster earlier indicated she had to endure. No. That is not ok with me and if that is me getting my panties in a wad, so be it. My panties are in a wad. Well, actually they are my wife's. I just like to wear them. I kid. Maybe. Seriously though, I get it, if you want to live to see tomorrow, you let him squeeze your breasts, but hell no that doesn't make it acceptable and no way in hell it should be condoned. If a cop is so off his rocker that when I tell him no, you can't touch my wife's breast, that he's susceptible to shooting me for disobeying his order, well the SOB maybe shouldn't be a cop.

ETA - Just jumping off Linda. Not jumping at you. Sorry it sounds that way.

That kid had it coming, checking his mail in his own driveway and all. He should have hogtied himself so those poor officers didn't have to do it. :fear:

*sarcasm alert*

 

[EvilSoup]

Just wait. In about a month, you will no longer be able to have a pain pill phoned in. You will have to see a doctor, immediate care or an er for a hand signed prescription. Just wow. That is gonna suck for so many in a big way.
All narcotics will be schedule 2 now. (at least in Georgia)

Old fashioned sudafed is the only thing that works for me. That other stuff over the counter is a joke.
I get why it had to be done. I am so mad at people who abuse drugs right now. They have have screwed upbthe system for everyone who doesn't. Imo
Once the rule takes effect in 45 days, all hydrocodone products will be considered Schedule II drugs. Patients will see new restrictions on prescriptions
http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-hydrocodone-curbs-20140822-story.html

All posts are MOO

I am used to it. My daughter takes meds for ADHD. Have to schlep to pediatrician and then to pharmacy where I feel like some criminal even though we have filled there for six years....EVERY MONTH. And God forbid they are out and have to send me to another pharmacy. I get to feel the stink eye on me from a new pharmacist. I want to scream "Dude, it's not crack, it's not even for me, and I have a legit script for my child's meds; just fill it, please!"

But calling in those Oxy scripts......no problemo. Until I guess now. Sigh. What a mess.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I'm going to alert on my own post, just fyi y'all...

I can't remember if it was Crump or Parks who used weird phrasing that made it seem like MB may have been in some trouble as a youth. Anyone remember the quote I'm talking about? The same day I saw that quote I read a NYT article where MB's mom said he was never in trouble with the police as a youth. I'm not sure if those are her exact words, but it sounded like a pretty definite statement and seemed to contradict CrumpOrParks. I didn't look to see if one was from an earlier day than the other but the conflict seemed odd.

I have no problem talking about how their two statements conflict. I'm just wondering about this other stuff. Right now this guy is suing to get records that may or may not exist. I think if we find that they exist they should be fair game. I think however that until then, I'm not sure how far we can go to speculate or if we even should KWIM? So I'm going to ask our mods for some guidance here if y'all don't mind.

 

[DebinGA]

Lopa Blumenthal, attorney who provided audio tape of shots to CNN, is now demanding "redress" for yesterday's show w/experts suggesting it might be a "hoax"....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ress-of-hoax-comment-regarding-ferguson-tape/

"“I’m not going to sit back and take this,” she says. “This is affecting my community — people are discussing it. My business exists on the work that I do, which means nothing if people think that I have no integrity.”

 

[dandy]

Someone, perhaps the store owner's lawyer, publicly id'd the 911 caller as a female customer. A customer wouldn't have called 911 over just a grab-and-go robbery imo.

sadly ita with your 2nd sentence specifically & has caused a lot of this type of theft. people should call in any crime they see.

imo - it doesn't look like his 1st time = no running - just full of confidence/boldness & didn't hide the stolen merchandise walking down the road.

 

[DebinGA]

I'm going to alert on my own post, just fyi y'all...

I can't remember if it was Crump or Parks who used weird phrasing that made it seem like MB may have been in some trouble as a youth. Anyone remember the quote I'm talking about? The same day I saw that quote I read a NYT article where MB's mom said he was never in trouble with the police as a youth. I'm not sure if those are her exact words, but it sounded like a pretty definite statement and seemed to contradict CrumpOrParks. I didn't look to see if one was from an earlier day than the other but the conflict seemed odd.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=0

"He did not have a criminal record as an adult, and his family said he never got in trouble with the law as a juvenile, either."
............................................................................................................................

Daryl Parks in answer to question re MB juvie record: "I'll say this. He was a typical kid. Some situations may have occurred while .. a juvenile, but we need to not be at a point where we start to blame the victim"

 

[Apollo]

Lopa Blumenthal, attorney who provided audio tape of shots to CNN, is now demanding "redress" for yesterday's show w/experts suggesting it might be a "hoax"....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ress-of-hoax-comment-regarding-ferguson-tape/

"“I’m not going to sit back and take this,” she says. “This is affecting my community — people are discussing it. My business exists on the work that I do, which means nothing if people think that I have no integrity.”

I wish someone would ask her why she didn't just turn over the tape to the FBI. What was her purpose in giving it to CNN in the first place? Just curious---did CNN pay her for the tape?

 

[SStarr33]

This video shows MB and DJs walk and shows how busy Canfield Dr is:

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com...michael-brown-took-before-his-fatal-shooting/

 

[DebinGA]

My understanding is that we are free to speculate/discuss anything about the case that has been reported in "mainstream media". For instance, this caught my attention in Sunday's New York Times piece on the last weeks/months of MB's life:

"In the ninth grade at McCluer High School in Florissant, Mr. Brown was accused of stealing an iPod. His mother said she went to the school, eventually showing a receipt to prove the iPod was his. He left McCluer and went to two other high schools before going to Normandy for most of his final two years."

McCluer and Normandy are both within 5 mi. of where MB died. The two unnamed schools were probably also close by, so MB attended at least 4 high schools in the area. I think it's appropriate to discuss why that might have been, because it's certainly not the norm. I checked out the other high schools near Ferguson, and Normandy is unquestionably the worst. Why did MB stay at Normandy instead of transferring to a much better school out of the area, since Ferguson had to pay all the expenses (including transportation) of students who wanted to leave Normandy when it lost its accreditation?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/heres-how-not-deal-failing-schools

 

[DebinGA]

This video shows MB and DJs walk and shows how busy Canfield Dr is:

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com...michael-brown-took-before-his-fatal-shooting/

That was interesting, especially Ted Williams contention that MB likely didn't think he'd committed a crime at the "liquor store". Gives a very helpful look at the street/area too.

 

[Irisha]

Just wait. In about a month, you will no longer be able to have a pain pill phoned in. You will have to see a doctor, immediate care or an er for a hand signed prescription. Just wow. That is gonna suck for so many in a big way.
All narcotics will be schedule 2 now. (at least in Georgia)

Old fashioned sudafed is the only thing that works for me. That other stuff over the counter is a joke.
I get why it had to be done. I am so mad at people who abuse drugs right now. They have have screwed upbthe system for everyone who doesn't. Imo
Once the rule takes effect in 45 days, all hydrocodone products will be considered Schedule II drugs. Patients will see new restrictions on prescriptions
http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-hydrocodone-curbs-20140822-story.html

All posts are MOO

I read the other day in 45 days, you can only get 3 mo./ 90 day refill then you have to see your dr. It was 5 refills before. I've been taking pain pills for yrs, for Fibomyalgia & arthritis and never ever got addicted.

I heard someone filed a 200 million $$$$$ lawsuit yesterday, does anyone know who filed and why?

 

[DeDee]

Charles C. J*hnson @ChuckCJ*hnson
"There is a very simple way for St. Louis Court to stop suit. Sign affidavit saying that #MichaelBr*wn has no juvie record. Why won't they?"


We call him "Checkmate" for a reason!

IMHO, the juvenile records will confirm just as Charles predicted in his article written earlier. If so, then, yes, folks are already lying:

"He did not have a criminal record as an adult, and his family said he never got in trouble with the law as a juvenile, either."

“You may see him on a picture with some friends that may have been in a gang,” Ms. M*Spadden said. “He wasn’t in a gang. He just knew how to adapt to his surroundings. Michael was so cool that he could just get along with anybody.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=0

I cannot understand why the truth is so difficult to utter. OW & MB deserve the truth of the matter to be told. JMO

moo and all that jazz

 

[TorisMom003]

Charles C. J*hnson @ChuckCJ*hnson
"There is a very simple way for St. Louis Court to stop suit. Sign affidavit saying that #MichaelBr*wn has no juvie record. Why won't they?"


We call him "Checkmate" for a reason!

IMHO, the juvenile records will confirm just as Charles predicted in his article written earlier. If so, then, yes, folks are already lying:

"He did not have a criminal record as an adult, and his family said he never got in trouble with the law as a juvenile, either."

“You may see him on a picture with some friends that may have been in a gang,” Ms. M*Spadden said. “He wasn’t in a gang. He just knew how to adapt to his surroundings. Michael was so cool that he could just get along with anybody.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=0

I cannot understand why the truth is so difficult to utter. OW & MB deserve the truth of the matter to be told. JMO

moo and all that jazz

BBM

We don't speak ill of the dead. Besides, didn't you know that MB was a gentle giant that was all about Jesus and doing good?!?

It irritates me when people refuse to tell the truth about someone that has died. MB behaved like a (IMO) the day he died. I find it very difficult to believe that that was the first time, the only time, that he ever behaved like a .

MOO

 

[CherBearSTL]

My understanding is that we are free to speculate/discuss anything about the case that has been reported in "mainstream media". For instance, this caught my attention in Sunday's New York Times piece on the last weeks/months of MB's life:

"In the ninth grade at McCluer High School in Florissant, Mr. Brown was accused of stealing an iPod. His mother said she went to the school, eventually showing a receipt to prove the iPod was his. He left McCluer and went to two other high schools before going to Normandy for most of his final two years."

McCluer and Normandy are both within 5 mi. of where MB died. The two unnamed schools were probably also close by, so MB attended at least 4 high schools in the area. I think it's appropriate to discuss why that might have been, because it's certainly not the norm. I checked out the other high schools near Ferguson, and Normandy is unquestionably the worst. Why did MB stay at Normandy instead of transferring to a much better school out of the area, since Ferguson had to pay all the expenses (including transportation) of students who wanted to leave Normandy when it lost its accreditation?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/heres-how-not-deal-failing-schools

I live in the St. Louis area, and am very familiar with the school situation because i live in the school district that was chosen by Normandy as the one school district they would provide transportation to. Most Normandy students chose to stay at Normandy schools because our district is a 45 minute drive from Normandy and the bus ride was very long. We also do not have public transportation, making it difficult for parents without vehicles to attend school functions. The children could have picked a different district, but they would have been required to provide their own ride. Hopefully that gives you some idea as to why he didn't switch schools.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It is not just a or b or c. Along with a or b or c, the cop must reasonably believe that deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest. Unless I'm reading that wrong. If I'm reading that right, it is completely irrelevant what happened earlier. Irrelevant what happened at the store. Irrelevant what happened at the car. What is important is what is going on at the time the fatal shot is fired. You can have the most violent piece of trash who just committed a strong arm robbery and followed that up by hitting a cop upside his head with a baseball bat. But, if at the time that cops gun is pulled, that piece of trash had surrendered himself to arrest, the cop might still shoot him, but it won't be justified because it was no longer immediately necessary to effect the arrest. That's why I still believe that what is important is what happened 35 feet from that cop's car. Did MB surrender himself or did he charge the officer?

I am confused as to what you are saying. I specifically underlined and bolded everything that is required including he must reasonably believe deadly force is needed to effect the arrest. I had already highlighted that in my other post. But after that only A or B or C is needed just as I pointed out in my previous post which was:

What does Missouri law provide on police use of deadly force?
Missouri law gives police officers broad power to use force to make an arrest or prevent a felon’s escape. It states: “A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only …. when he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested (a) has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or (b) is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or (c) may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.”

I respectfully disagree. If OW knew MB fit the description of the strong armed felony that had taken place at the convenience store it absolutely is irrelevant to the arrest of MB. It is also very relevant that OW knew MB had just committed a Class A Felony. He actually by MO law could have fired lethal shots the minute he tried to escape. Imo, OW did not and only hit him in his arm. I think at first OW was only trying to stop him from escaping at first .....not kill him And if MB still charged the officer after then this law would still apply.

I don't believe some of the witnesses who have inconsistencies. I think they have biases of their own against any LE and that will come out if there is a trial. I don't think he surrendered. I think he was right up at OW just a few feet away when he finally shot the fatal shot.

Even the AR diagram to me shows MB was in motion at the time of the head shot. I believe he had his arms outstretched in a tackling position with his head down when he rushed OW making him have no other option but to fire a lethal shot. Imo, MB thought he could rush/tackle the officer and take away his gun so that he would not be able to shoot him. IMO

So yes, because he was a felony suspect who tried to flee to avoid arrest OW could have legally used deadly force the minute he tried to escape and all of that knowledge OW knew at the time will be highly relevant. It shows why OW got out of his car to pursue him in the first place. At that time he was a wanted felon who was trying to escape.

I think there are a lot of witnesses who don't wish to have their 15 minutes of fame in the media that are giving statements to LE instead (as they should) and their statements are supporting OW and what really happened that day.

ETA: If MB was really standing there with his hands in the air then there is no way OW would be able to shoot MB on the top of the head since MB is taller than OW.

JMO though

 

[DebinGA]

I live in the St. Louis area, and am very familiar with the school situation because i live in the school district that was chosen by Normandy as the one school district they would provide transportation to. Most Normandy students chose to stay at Normandy schools because our district is a 45 minute drive from Normandy and the bus ride was very long. We also do not have public transportation, making it difficult for parents without vehicles to attend school functions. The children could have picked a different district, but they would have been required to provide their own ride. Hopefully that gives you some idea as to why he didn't switch schools.

"Normandy’s current tuition rate is $12,000 per student, per year. The costs of tuition among the 14 school districts that accepted Normandy transfers vary widely, climbing as high as $20,000 per student. Normandy school officials expect to pay about $15 million in transfer costs this school year: more than $1 million a month. Normandy chose Francis Howell as its receiving district and so must pay about $425,000 a month to bus nearly 450 students the 30 miles to Francis Howell schools."

So, someone in authority over 98% black and poor Normandy High School chose to transport those kids 30 mi. to 90% white, middle class Francis Howell, all expenses paid. That seems a very foolish decision, but a 45 min. bus ride to an excellent school beats staying at unaccredited, violence infested Normandy every time imo.