MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[nothingnew]

DJ didn't mention the struggle over the gun at all iirc, but he did say the gun fired in the car, he looked down and saw MB was bleeding, and that's when they took off running.

""He [DW] pulled out his weapon. His weapon was drawn. He said, "I'll shoot you, or "I'm going to shoot. And in the same moment, the first shot went off. And we looked down, and he was shot - blood coming from him - and we took off running."

This has me wondering why DJ was on the passenger side while MB was playing "tussle" on the drivers side? Is that intimidation or serious ignorance? That is IF DJ was the other side of that sandwich.

 

[CHERIE.T]

That's my transcription of DJ's story re what happened at DW's car. No mention of a tussle, but he seems to be saying DW shot MB there.

Update: Sorry, CHERIE, that DJ quote was early on, not tonight.

all's good, thanks Deb.

 

[Amber29]

No, it isn't. I am kind of shocked at the sleuthing and nastiness going on towards the four witnesses also. I wonder, is this normal here? I don't recall such hostility (in any other cases) directed toward the only witnesses out there so far.

TBH yes this happens often in cases that are so divided. I mean if you feel a person is innocent, then you have discredited the witnesses that don't support your opinion. That's how it works. Sometimes the fact a potential witness has a criminal record for instance. The "nastiness" is sometimes only the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[katydid23]

The context of the discussion is when it is okay to use "deadly force", and the threat must be real and current.

If the first volley of those shots were fired as he was running away- as every single direct witness we have heard from claims- that is very troublesome, because there was not current threat.

There is a threat--a threat to the public, if a violent felon is fleeing from an assault on an officer.

 

[Lovejac]

But it's OKAY to jump to conclusions and label Michael Brown as the Guilty one?? IMO, presumption of innoncence should go both ways, then. Especially for the dead one.

In the beginning I jumped to conclusions and labeled Officer Wilson as the guilty one.

 

[Truthy]

It seems few states have made this a law about identification of a police officer. Although some police departments have made it a rule. So the question is does STL County or Ferguson pd?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ice_officers_have_to_identify_themselves.html
Yes. Massachusetts law requires police officers to carry identification cards and present them upon request. Officers are also required to wear a "badge, tag, or label" with their name and/or identifying number. The law is aimed at precisely the situation in question—suspects who feel their rights are being violated. Few other states impose this requirement on their officers as a matter of law, but many individual police departments, such as the New York Police Department, have adopted it (PDF) as a matter of policy.

Yes, so far I have been given two links by local Ex and current law enforcement, and they both say they do not know any details about the FPD's required dress code. I'm sur eif the info was out their, a Sleuther would have found it already. I'd be shocked if they weren't required to give names at the time of the arrest, but maybe they got around that because they knew they were going to release people with no charges.

 

[jmcgladr]

Did you not see the robbery video? I saw it with my own two eyes and he's guilty. Even DJ admitted that. And even MBs attorney admitted there was an very serious altercation in the vehicle, but that it doesn't mean anything. We also know that MB was high at the time of the shooting and that he was, by even DJs admission, walking down the center of the street and refused to get out of the center of the street. So yes...I feel pretty confident that MB was quite guilty of all of those things. (Don't forget...when all this started, I thought he was an innocent unarmed kid with his hands in the air begging for mercy.)

Not trying to start an argument, but MB actually was NOT proven to be high at the time of the shooting. He had pot in his system, that is all we know. Pot stays in the system much longer than regular drugs, as I believe some posters here have already said, and how long it stays in the system differs due to the large variation in THC content from the different varieties. He may have taken pot days ago, or that morning, we really don't know. As for the robbery video, yes, that proves he was guilty of robbery and intimidation of the store owner. It doesn't prove that he was guilty of anything else. Ditto for walking in the street and ignoring police orders. Robbery, and walking in the middle of the street after a cop tells you not to, does not make one deserving of being shot to death. Even if he was definitively guilty of those things.

 

[TheDuchess]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Ferguson-police-character-assassination.html

Not sure if I am doing this right, but this link has a map showing where everything happened. The shooting occurred between where the robbery took place and where the sick call was at, so I would imagine that they were, in fact, approaching one another. I too have always thought he came at them from behind, so I kind of felt that they hadn't realized he was there right away, but he must have been coming right at them.

Also, (hope I'm getting this correct) but a close up view of the road on Google maps clearly shows not only the fact that there are sidewalks, but there is also a yellow line going down the center of the road. I had originally thought this was a typical neighborhood side-street, but Canfield is actually a secondary through street. Certainly not a highway like Florissant, but definitely a main drag. I also took a leisurely stroll down the street using Google maps to try to recreate their walk from the convenience store and there are several cars on there as well as several people walking - on the sidewalks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.738...!1e1!3m2!1sZbrMDygFZKivEMZag_1J4g!2e0!6m1!1e1

My point is that walking down the center of that street, in my opinion, is probably not an every day occurrence!


Edited for clarification - the map I referenced that show the 3 different locations on the Daily Mail story is WAY down the page.

 

[Lovejac]

Did you not see the robbery video? I saw it with my own two eyes and he's guilty. Even DJ admitted that. And even MBs attorney admitted there was an very serious altercation in the vehicle, but that it doesn't mean anything. We also know that MB was high at the time of the shooting and that he was, by even DJs admission, walking down the center of the street and refused to get out of the center of the street. So yes...I feel pretty confident that MB was quite guilty of all of those things. (Don't forget...when all this started, I thought he was an innocent unarmed kid with his hands in the air begging for mercy.)

ITA. The main things that made me change my mind were MB's robbery video and all of the slips of admissions from the MB lawyers about the altercation.

 

[Phoebeb]

Lord I need a map! I'm so directionally challenged I'm surprised I can make it from my house to school and back :shame:

I am the same way and totally dependent on my GPS...
Here's the google map of Canfield. Or search 2947 Canfield, St Louis- go to Earth view, there's a white car driving when the pic was taken, that car is between where MB's body was and where OW's police car was parked. Frydaddy helped me find that the other night, helps a lot trying to visualize it all

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...2!3m1!1s0x87df498852b6aead:0xd8ea0c838dc779f4

 

[Lovejac]

Yes, so far I have been given two links by local Ex and current law enforcement, and they both say they do not know any details about the FPD's required dress code. I'm sur eif the info was out their, a Sleuther would have found it already. I'd be shocked if they weren't required to give names at the time of the arrest, but maybe they got around that because they knew they were going to release people with no charges.

I wonder if they would give you that info if you called them? Maybe?

 

[Lovejac]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Ferguson-police-character-assassination.html

Not sure if I am doing this right, but this link has a map showing where everything happened. The shooting occurred between where the robbery took place and where the sick call was at, so I would imagine that they were, in fact, approaching one another. I too have always thought he came at them from behind, so I kind of felt that they hadn't realized he was there right away, but he must have been coming right at them.


Also, (hope I'm getting this correct) but a close up view of the road on Google maps clearly shows not only the fact that there are sidewalks, but there is also a yellow line going down the center of the road. I had originally thought this was a typical neighborhood side-street, but Canfield is actually a secondary through street. Certainly not a highway like Florissant, but definitely a main drag. I also took a leisurely stroll down the street using Google maps to try to recreate their walk from the convenience store and there are several cars on there as well as several people walking - on the sidewalks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.738...!1e1!3m2!1sZbrMDygFZKivEMZag_1J4g!2e0!6m1!1e1

My point is that walking down the center of that street, in my opinion, is probably not an every day occurrence!

Thanks for the link. That really helped me.

And, geez, there are sidewalks on BOTH sides of the street :facepalm: What I wouldn't give to have sidewalks on just ONE side of my street

 

[Linda7NJ]

In the beginning I jumped to conclusions and labeled Officer Wilson as the guilty one.

Ditto! That's how I got interested in the case....


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[DebinGA]

Lord I need a map! I'm so directionally challenged I'm surprised I can make it from my house to school and back :shame:

Then go over to The Conservative Treehouse site which has maps/visuals galore. For instance:

https://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wilson-vehicle-3.jpg
[click image to make it bigger]

There's DW's cruiser in the middle, to the left of the 2 orange cones. MB's ball cap is at the right cone, but the left cone is either a brass shell casing OR possibly DJ's bracelet lost during the car altercation. I think some there saw that DJ was wearing a bracelet in the store video, but not wearing it in videos right after MB died. Good sleuthing going on there to ID that object and the third item at the orange cone at the right side curb.

 

[Elley Mae]

Did you see WHAT they gave Ferguson that made them "militarized"? PoliticsNation with Sharpton showed the list. Ferguson PD got 2 Humvees, a generator and a cargo trailer. Not really something I, personally would want to go to WAR with.

The list is here at this link, and it is much more then the items you list. jmo

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/aug/15/we-have-pentagon-1033-program-data/

 

[Linda7NJ]

ITA. The main things that made me change my mind were MB's robbery video and all of the slips of admissions from the MB lawyers about the altercation.

And officer Wilson's record and the version that came via a "friend"
And the captured in the background at the scene that matched it.


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[Amber29]

I posed this question several threads ago & it was only answered by those that thought OW was justified in the shooting. I really have not made up my mind. I want to hear from those who have not made up their mind or think OW is guilty. If MB wanted to surrender as he was running away, how should he have done that so that OW would quit shooting?

IMO when an officer yells Freeze you freeze and do as instructed further.
Or if not told to freeze maybe fall to your knees with hands up without turning to face him, again wait for his instructions without sudden movements that can be misinterpreted. Especially if seconds earlier you had assaulted said officer.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But it's OKAY to jump to conclusions and label Michael Brown as the Guilty one?? IMO, presumption of innoncence should go both ways, then. Especially for the dead one.

We are on a message board though and not in a court of law. UIPG is a judicial standard that only jurors have to abide by when they sit down before the evidence begins. They are to presume the defendant is innocent until evidence proves otherwise.

But I do agree with you in a way. From day one of this nightmarish case OWs constitutional rights have been totally ignored by the many angry protestors, political talking heads/AA leaders, reporters, and lawyers connected to this case. The Black Panther party have called for OWs death. All of these people have already found OW guilty even without a GJ indictment much less a trial. And not only have they presumed he is guilty they have made terroristic threats as well.

But here at WSs it is a different guideline. We can have our own personal opinions one way or the other as long as we do it without violating TOS. So some will make MB into the innocent one and some will think this case is looking like a justifiable homicide and will be more supportive toward OW. We also can change our opinions at anytime if further evidence leads us one way or the other.

As of now I do support OW. In his 6 years as a law enforcement officer he has never had one complaint of wrongdoing. All the media outlets have tried their best to find any dirt on him and they have found nothing. So for him to just blatantly mow someone down for the hell of it doesn't match the character of OW that has been released. He not only had no complaints but he had recently received a commendation.

Imo, MB was a felon who was fleeing in order to escape being arrested. It is hard for me to just ignore the big elephant in the room. He not only had committed a strong armed robbery, assaulted, and bullied a small store clerk that day which made him a felony suspect but IMO within 15 minutes he also assaulted OW.

But as I said, if any information comes out against OW I will change my opinion if real evidence proves to me this shooting wasn't a justifiable homicide.

IMO

 

[zenreaper]

Not trying to start an argument, but MB actually was NOT proven to be high at the time of the shooting. He had pot in his system, that is all we know. Pot stays in the system much longer than regular drugs, as I believe some posters here have already said, and how long it stays in the system differs due to the large variation in THC content from the different varieties. He may have taken pot days ago, or that morning, we really don't know. As for the robbery video, yes, that proves he was guilty of robbery and intimidation of the store owner. It doesn't prove that he was guilty of anything else. Ditto for walking in the street and ignoring police orders. Robbery, and walking in the middle of the street after a cop tells you not to, does not make one deserving of being shot to death. Even if he was definitively guilty of those things.

As a resident of Colorado, I assure you that there is a blood test (called the Delta 9) that determines the EFFECTIVE amount of THC in a person's system. I believe the CURRENT regulation in CO is less than 5 nanograms to be able to operate a vehicle.

 

[EvilSoup]

Always a possibility. Could also be from smoking "modified" Swisher Sweets.

Personally, I don't think his behavior requires anything other than hubris as an explanation.

... And I see more than enough hubris running through him just in the behaviors no one denies, from the robbery to the refusal to get on the sidewalk.

Do you have a link backing up MB smoking laced Swisher Sweets? I have not read that yet. Just speculation here. But your post reads like a factual statement. Thanks in advance!!