MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[cady]

You may want that, but that certainly isn't how our justice system works. In order to charge him, the state must be able to provide incontrovertible proof that OW shot MB without being in fear of harm to himself or others. No one, including OW, owes you or me or anyone incontrovertible proof of innocence. It is the other way around.

Also, the State would have to believe that it has incontrovertible proof to bring charges............I believe that the trier(s) of fact would decide if the State had met its burden of proof at the end of the trial. That, in my opinion is how our system of justice works. JMO

 

[Truthy]

Just the 2nd autopsy that Baden did at the request of the Brown family, which clearly shows no gunshot in MB's back. It's in the media thread.
We haven't seen the 1st one done by Dr. Case but I doubt that she found a gunshot in MB's back either.

Thanks! But the Baden was just preliminary as well. (see link) I think he said he would eventually get X rays and gun residue reports before doing a final report. I read mixed reports about the why no gun powder resude at all- some say Brown was already swabbed and or washed, so he would naturally not get the same findings as the first sutopsy, which makes sense. I do think it's weird they did not show him xrays though, because it hinders his ability to do his job.
I could not find much on the Case autopsy either. :shrug:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

 

[branwynbreeze]

The lawsuit seeks a total of $40 million on behalf of six plaintiffs, including a 17-year-old boy who was with his mother in a fast-food restaurant when they were arrested. Each of the plaintiffs was caught up in interactions with police over a period from Aug. 11 to 13, the suit allege.

"This is a blatant example of how police handle African-Americans ... how it can go terribly, terribly wrong. You have a right to peaceful assembly," said attorney Reginald Greene who brought the case.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/28/us-usa-missouri-shooting-idUSKBN0GS2KD20140828

With all these sharks circling blood in the water, it doesn't mean there is still a food source left. People looking for a way to profit out of misfortune. The only thing worse is blatantly stating racism as driving force. Yes, most protesters where AA, most of time they were given a order to disperse before countermeasures. In a crowd at night it's not always easy to ID those causing issues. Wasn't there an incident of shots fired from crowd wounding protesters?

RE: tactics used-I believe they also said bean bag bullets instead of rubber bullets were used, but not quoted in article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/27/jon-belmar-ferguson-protests_n_5726122.html

“Our choices were to rip, wade into the crowd with nightsticks and riot sticks. Like I said before, in my 28 years I’ve seen the damage they can do -- they’re not temporary damage, sometimes those injuries are long-lasting,” Belmar said. “I felt like after 20 years of law enforcement experience -- I’ve been tear-gassed perhaps two dozen times. It’s a chemical agent, it’s not pleasant, but at the end of the day there aren’t any long-lasting effects. So we’ve talked a lot about optics, the optics of nightsticks, dogs and other things like that.”

 

[cocomod]

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/

Both sides claim that Officer Wilson backed up his car.

The officer drives away but then puts the car in reverse and backs up rapidly. The car slants, almost hitting Johnson and Brown, Johnson tells CNN.

Josie: "So he goes in reverse back to them. He tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael [Brown] did. Then he opens his car again and tries to get out and as he stands up Michael just bum rushes him, and just shoves him back into his car, punches him in the face and then of course Darren grabs for his gun and Michael grabs the gun. At one point he's got the gun totally turned against his hip and then he shoves it away and the gun goes off."

 

[aa9511]

I believe Officer Darren Wilson behaved PERFECTLY, as I have not seen one shred of proof that he did not. Perfectly clean record. Zero complaints. Commendation. Was assaulted by a 300 lb 6'4" man that just strongarmed a convenience store not more than 15 minutes prior. YOU and others have it backwards. And you use DJ's statement for your reasoning? That is might be half-true? Sorry...but half-truths, in the legal system (and in life) are simply called LIES. When someone is a LIAR you cannot believe ANYTHING they say.

Officer Wilson owes you, me, the family, the community, NOTHING. He is innocent until proven guilty, particularly when he hasn't even been charged with any crime yet. This man was simply doing his job, like we expect him to do. And until I see proof otherwise, Officer Wilson is the VICTIM here - not the strong armed bully walking down the middle of the road police officer assaulting 6 ft 4in 300 lb MAN who was high as a kite. And certainly not Mr. "I am not just a witness I am a victim Eddie Haskel warrant out for his arrest lying to authorities accessory to a felon LIAR that he is.

Links to everything I have stated have been posted ad nauseum throughout these treads, so please don't ask for one, because at the end of the day, OW is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law and until then he has my 100% support.

Innocent until proven guilty has to be met in the criminal system to put someone in prison.

Last time I checked, neither you or I are sitting on the jury in the Officer Wilson trial.

Public opinion does not mean anything. What matters is what 12 jurors decide in a courtroom.

We are all, all of us on here, debating possible scenarios. I don't see what is the harm in that??

I cannot put Officer Wilson in prison. So IMHO, we as just general posters don't have to abide by "innocent until proven guilty." We are each allowed to form our own opinions. I am not going to be on Officer Wilson's jury, and neither are you. It's those 12 people you should be saying that to, not me.

JMO.

 

[DeDee]

Retweeted by Charles C. Johnson
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Shannon Knutsen ‏@STKnutsen 3h
@ChuckCJohnson @washingtonpost #MikeBrown's Normandy HS... Impoverished? Hardly... THIS is Normandy High! pic.twitter.com/apwfYxYQGY
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Greetings, popsicle. I feel certain that you understand the tweet but for others who may not....

Just to be clear about the tweet, Charles Johnson did not state that Normandy High was impoverished. The Washington Post printed that comment.

CCJ's article was about the [gang] violence associated with Normandy High.


<modsnip>

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/a/178337/ferguson-unrest-could-cost-taxpayers-millions/

moo and all that jazz

 

[Phoebeb]

I fixed the post according to what you said, I hope. Paraphrased, added link, stressed it was only rumor and from a facebook post, not MSM but St Louis radio station. Here's the link again for you https://www.facebook.com/1007TheViper?ref=br_tf

Please provide a link regarding facts when you are asked by a MOD. If it speculation, please make that clear in your post. If it is based on Facebook, also state so in your post. If is information you are getting from someone else, please provide a link to back up what you are presenting as factual.

Thanks, Lambchop

 

[popsicle]

Charles C. Johnson &#8207;@ChuckCJohnson 44s
It's sad to me that even some law professors seem not to know that juvenile records become public after death. #Ferguson #MichaelBrown

 

[popsicle]

Greetings, popsicle. I feel certain that you understand the tweet but for others who may not....

Just to be clear about the tweet, Charles Johnson did not state that Normandy High was impoverished. The Washington Post printed that comment.

CCJ's article was about the [gang] violence associated with Normandy High.

http://gotnews.com/michaelbrown-choose-attend-st-louiss-violent-school-ferguson/

Does anyone know who purchased the casket MB was buried in because it looked like pricey mahogany and brass? How much was the cost for the funeral services? We, the taxpayers, may have foot that bill. I am sure it was on our taxpayer dime that reps flew from the White House [DC] to attend. Probably paid for their meals and hotel accommodations, too. JMO

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/a/178337/ferguson-unrest-could-cost-taxpayers-millions/

moo and all that jazz

[h=1]Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity To Pay Mike Brown&#8217;s Memorial And Funeral Costs[/h]
Alpha Phi Alpha has long stood at the forefront of the African-American community&#8217;s fight for civil rights through leaders such as: W.E.B. DuBois, Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., Edward Brooke, Martin Luther King, Jr., Thurgood Marshall, Andrew Young, William Gray, Paul Robeson, and many others.

http://theurbandaily.com/2014/08/23...michael-browns-memorial-and-funeral-services/

 

[Muffet]

WHaaaah? I was talking about proof that DW, at the time of returning to MB and DJ LINKED the robbery to them, as the majority here have asserted as fact. Nobody owes ME anything, I'm a dispassionate observer. But I think that if someone asserts something as FACT, they should be able to prove that it is. Otherwise, just say that it is your opinion, which is fine. Relax! JMO

The chief publicly said Wilson realized it during the encounter. That's enough evidence to say it's more than opinion, IMO.

Personally, when I add what the chief said to DJ's statement, I think he realized it before he came back. That is JMO though.

FERGUSON OFFICER REALIZED DURING ENCOUNTER THAT MICHAEL BROWN MIGHT be SUSPECT in ROBBERY, CHIEF SAYS

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html


Police Chief Thomas Jackson said the officer who fired the fatal shots, Darren Wilson, did not know Michael Brown was a robbery suspect when he INITIALLY stopped the teen and a companion "because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic." Jackson told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that
Wilson knew there had been a robbery in the area but did not know that Brown was a suspect.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/darren-...er-who-fatally-shot-michael-brown-identified/


DJ said:
The officer drove away but stopped and backed up, almost hitting the pair, Johnson said. He said he wasn't sure what prompted the officer to return.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-5-things/index.html.

 

[popsicle]

550 KTRS St. Louis &#8207;@550KTRS 1m
Officer who pointed gun at protests is out of a job: ST. ANN, Mo. (AP) - A suburban St. Louis police officer... http://www.ktrs.com/?p=4523

 

[Truthy]

The chief publicly said Wilson realized it during the encounter. That's enough evidence to say it's more than opinion, IMO.

Personally, when I add what the chief said to DJ's statement, I think he realized it before he came back. That is JMO though.

FERGUSON OFFICER REALIZED DURING ENCOUNTER THAT MICHAEL BROWN MIGHT be SUSPECT in ROBBERY, CHIEF SAYS

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html


Police Chief Thomas Jackson said the officer who fired the fatal shots, Darren Wilson, did not know Michael Brown was a robbery suspect when he INITIALLY stopped the teen and a companion "because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic." Jackson told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that
Wilson knew there had been a robbery in the area but did not know that Brown was a suspect.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/darren-...er-who-fatally-shot-michael-brown-identified/


DJ said:
The officer drove away but stopped and backed up, almost hitting the pair, Johnson said. He said he wasn't sure what prompted the officer to return.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-5-things/index.html.

IMHO, I think a lot of people feel this is dubious because it was not in the first press conference. It seems that OW did not speak to anyone about the robbery thing even though he somehow communicated other important details to them. That, and the lack of any written report is what is so concerning to the community, IMHO.

 

[DebinGA]

Aug. 20 Nancy Grace asks Daryl Parks about the car altercation:

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, without question, we know that there was a major altercation at the car. There`s no question about that. So you`ll never hear me say there wasn`t a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...

GRACE: Well, with the car...

PARKS: Within the car.

GRACE: ... or at the car?

PARKS: At the car.

GRACE: So you say it happened in the car?

PARKS: The officer was still partially in the car, is what we`ve been told
..........................................................................................................
That matches what Josie relayed from Ofc. Wilson - that he was "pushed back into the car". I visualize ODW sprawled back and MB punching downward.

 

[Truthy]

550 KTRS St. Louis &#8207;@550KTRS 1m
Officer who pointed gun at protests is out of a job: ST. ANN, Mo. (AP) - A suburban St. Louis police officer... http://www.ktrs.com/?p=4523

He also made threats to kill peaceful protesters. And people got good footage of it. Pointing his gun at the crowd isn't enough to get a cop fired, plenty of them did that.

 

[TheDuchess]

QUESTION FOR MODERATORS: This is a victim friendly forum, correct? When can we finally declare OW as a victim in this situation? By MB's lawyers admission, there was an assault in the car. He's had to go into hiding due to death threats. The initial evidence that is leaking out is clearly pointing in the direction that we have a police officer with an impeccable record that was simply doing his job, who has been the victim of assault, smear campaigns, death threats and enormous public pressure. I cannot imagine what this poor man is going through and to me, he is the true victim in this case. I have little doubt that a no-bill will be given by the GJ and at the very minimum, even if charged, he will be completely 100% exonerated.

 

[Lovejac]

I am surprised he hasn't relocated. If it is proven he didn't tell the truth and colluded with others to tell the same story, he just may have both sides mad at him as well as LE for causing a of the hullabaloo to begin with.

All posts are MOO

The truth, from him (DJ) could have prevented all of these terrible acts that have been happening. It really is so very sad

 

[bettybaby00]

I understand. The only thing I would say is that, like someone (I think you) mentioned earlier, there might have been bad language and stuff used before, but no one reported it.

Let's say he sometimes used bad language and generally bad behavior with Black people. First of all, I'm betting that no Black person in Ferguson who might have encountered this behavior is gonna want to walk to the police station to file a damaging report on a police officer. Do you? I think that only happens in middle-class and upper-class White people world, to tell you the honest truth.

So we have the issue of non-reporting.


One way to find out the truth would be to interview OW's fellow police officers and those who worked closely with him in areas like Ferguson. But then we come across the issue of loyalty.I highly doubt any Ferguson police officer is going to EVER admit to anything like about OW.

So we have two issues - non-reporting and loyalty.

So then, do any of us really know what the truth is?

Of course anything is possible, I still contend, however, that if there were people in Ferguson that felt they were unfairly, or unjustly treated by OW they would be coming forward NOW. They don't need to report it to the police dept., b/c they can find a ready and willing audience in the media, as well as Parks, Crump and Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson KWIM?

I'm not trying to say that OW is a saint, or was perfect all the time, but if his behavior or attitude was pervasively negative toward people we'd be hearing about it.

Someone posted a few days ago that there was a "bad cop" on their local police force, and everyone knew his name, and who he was. I'd expect the same to be true if this is how OW conducted himself while on the job.

 

[EvilSoup]

You may want that, but that certainly isn't how our justice system works. In order to charge him, the state must be able to provide incontrovertible proof that OW shot MB without being in fear of harm to himself or others. No one, including OW, owes you or me or anyone incontrovertible proof of innocence. It is the other way around.

With respect, WS is not a court of law. There are lots of discussions here about Casey Anthony's guilt (not guilty, per the legal system), and before Scott Peterson, Jodi Arias and many others even went to trial, they were discussed here and it was not required that members refrain from stating their opinions about their guilt. Golly, just go to the Jon Benet forum. The Ramseys were never charged with anything and yet members are free to speculate on their guilt.

It's all good. We are just hashing things over, here. We don't all see eye-to-eye but that's okay!

ETA: i misread your post! i thought you meant we shouldn't be questioning OW here at WS. My bad! Long day and tired eyes!

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/

Both sides claim that Officer Wilson backed up his car.

I will have to hear it from OW for myself. I think DJ made up that OW stopped because they were walking in the street because he wasn't going to say he stopped because my friend was wearing a red hat and yellow socks and carrying stolen cigarillos.
I know LE said OW didn't know, but the bolo had gone out - he had to have heard it.
It happened too fast.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/timeline-fatal-police-shooting-michael-brown-25003171

11:57 a.m. — A police dispatcher broadcasts a detailed description of the robbery suspect, saying that he was wearing a red St. Louis Cardinals ball cap and yellow socks and was walking with another man toward another convenience store called QuikTrip.
12:00 p.m. — Officer Wilson leaves the scene of the call about a sick child.
12:01 p.m. — Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown walking on a street and the shooting follows. Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday that Wilson did not know about the robbery at the convenience store when he encountered Brown.
Shots were fired at 12:02:14


"Because Glide is the only messaging application using streaming video technology, each message is simultaneously recorded and transmitted, so the exact time can be verified to the second.*In this case, the video in question was created at 12:02:14 PM CDT on Saturday, August 9th."

MB was deceased in 74 seconds.
OW knew who they were and what was up.
MB went for the gun, punched OW and ran.
Imo - no time for anything else to happen period. No driving off backing up...having chit chat..
Not buying "Josie's" story either.

ETA: I see now they did admit he had heard about the robbery .
All posts are MOO

 

[cady]

Aug. 20 Nancy Grace asks Daryl Parks about the car altercation:

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, without question, we know that there was a major altercation at the car. There`s no question about that. So you`ll never hear me say there wasn`t a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...

GRACE: Well, with the car...

PARKS: Within the car.

GRACE: ... or at the car?

PARKS: At the car.

GRACE: So you say it happened in the car?

PARKS: The officer was still partially in the car, is what we`ve been told
..........................................................................................................
That matches what Josie relayed from Ofc. Wilson - that he was "pushed back into the car". I visualize ODW sprawled back and MB punching downward.

All I can say is LOL Parks. JMO he is as confused as the rest of us. Within the car and at the car are two different things. Pick one. I believe that no witness has said that they were both in the car, and if MB shoved DW back in the car by slamming the door, DW's legs couldn't have been out of the car or he would have had his shins slammed too. (which IMO REALLY hurts). I think that the fisticuffs, or whatever struggle there was, was through the window of the car. JMO