MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[katydid23]

Aren't these the "side issues" which everyone has been railing about? So we're supposed to ignore racial issues intertwined in this case when convenient, but we can address it when it concerns a lawsuit, even though it can kind of be set into this "racial talk" category?

So sometimes it's ok to talk about it and other times it's not?

I'm getting awfully confused now between what we are allowed to discuss on here and what we're not.

That's because there are grey areas. It is not that cut and dry.

 

[EvilSoup]

Well, how is that relevant to this case? MB clearly looked very fit and didn't need a scooter.

Sigh. Okay. The original poster said (paraphrase) "being 300 lbs is a weapon on it's own" and then Cady said, jokingly (paraphrase) "oh golly, better look out for 300 lb. cousin!" and then another poster said it was no laughing matter and assumed Cady was making light of MB's physical presence and I was simply replying to THAT, that my take on her post was that simply being 300 lbs does not make one a physical threat.

You can scroll back to read the exchange in it's proper context. :chillpill:

 

[DebinGA]

Pic of Ofc. Wilson's cruiser (left): https://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wilson-vehicle-4-1.png ... on a diagonal in the middle of the road, where he stopped after reversing back and around the 2 males, now standing in front of him again as when he first came upon them iirc. DJ claims DW had rapidly reversed and stopped "within inches" of them.

 

[cady]

Not a joking matter IMO. How many of your 300 pound friends and relatives assaulted a store clerk while stealing merchandise?

They are all deceased, but in answer to your question, none of them. LOL JMO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Charles C. Johnson @ChuckCJohnson
OK, I've got more #MichaelBrown stuff. I'll report that for tomorrow. Now I've got to do some paying work to pay for juvie records lawsuit!

4m ago

Yes, Mr. Johnson----get the juvie record and let the cards fall where they may.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, and SOP would be to request backup. They are supposed to evaluate threats based on what they see- and he did not see any evidence of guns. He saw suspects fleeing, that is not the time to fire a volley of shots, especially not in a dense residential area. He endangered the residents much more than his suspects did.

He did request backup. I think the other car arrived within a couple of minutes.

Evaluation is not based only upon what one sees. Also upon what one is experiencing in the moment. And he was physically assaulted, and in a life or death struggle over his gun. That is going to affect his snap second decisions.

 

[Truthy]

BBM.

ITA. I was in a state of denial for weeks over the CA trial. I honestly went slack jawed!

It made me remember my dad's comment after the OJ verdict. My dad was not the most, um, objective guy when it came to minorities. (Putting it as nicely as I can).

When the verdict was announced, he turned off the TV, said "well, that's it. He is not guilty." I was flummoxed and said "Whaaaaaa? Daddy, we both know he is guilty!". He said "In order for our legal system to exist, we have to respect the process and the outcome. If OJ is acquitted, I don't have to like it, but I respect our legal system." :thud:

But he was right and I tried to remember that even when I don't actually believe it. But it's so haaaard. (Looking at YOU, Casey Anthony)

I wish I could agree with your pops, but I think to err is human:

DNA Exonerations Nationwide
[Print Version]

There have been 317 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 38 states; since 2000, there have been 250 exonerations.

• 18 of the 317 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.

• The average length of time served by exonerees is 13.5 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,249.

• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 27.

Races of the 317 exonerees:

199 African Americans
94 Caucasians
22 Latinos
2 Asian American

• The true suspects and/or perpetrators have been identified in 154 of the DNA exoneration cases.

• Since 1989, there have been tens of thousands of cases where prime suspects were identified and pursued—until DNA testing (prior to conviction) proved that they were wrongly accused.

• In more than 25 percent of cases in a National Institute of Justice study, suspects were excluded once DNA testing was conducted during the criminal investigation (the study, conducted in 1995, included 10,060 cases where testing was performed by FBI labs).

• 65 percent of the people exonerated through DNA testing have been financially compensated. 29 states, the federal government, and the District of Columbia have passed laws to compensate people who were wrongfully incarcerated. Awards under these statutes vary from state to state.

• An Innocence Project review of our closed cases from 2004 - 2010 revealed that 22 percent of cases were closed because of lost or destroyed evidence.

• The Innocence Project was involved in 173 of the 317 DNA exonerations. Others were helped by Innocence Network organizations, private attorneys and by pro se defendants in a few instances.

• 30 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit.


http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php

 

[Linda7NJ]

The OJ verdict changed me as a person. First trial I watched every single second of....
The verdict gutted me.




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[DebinGA]

He did request backup. I think the other car arrived within a couple of minutes.

Evaluation is not based only upon what one sees. Also upon what one is experiencing in the moment. And he was physically assaulted, and in a life or death struggle over his gun. That is going to affect his snap second decisions.

... and concern about a second perp who could attack him from any direction.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What's happening? I fell into some sort of parallel universe...I'm replying to posts...my posts show ...what I quoted isn't. My thanks button isn't working...

Is it just me?


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[nomoresorrow]

Charles C. Johnson @ChuckCJohnson
OK, I've got more #MichaelBrown stuff. I'll report that for tomorrow. Now I've got to do some paying work to pay for juvie records lawsuit!

4m ago

A self-proclaimed conservative "reporter" who calls James Foley a coward for reciting the pre-prepared script given to him by his captors - I'll pass.
MO ~

 

[Muffet]

I'm behind again, but wanted to put this in here for the record and future reference - for anyone to copy/paste when the subject comes up.

As usual, I think we can learn a lot from Parks, not just from what he says, but how he says it or doesn't answer.

(I tend to think this is highly suggestive of MB's having his hand on the top of the gun, and Park's stuttering over "bullet" suggests MB's palm was caught in the slide mech, when the gun went off in the car.)

Anyway...

Regarding MB's hand wound:

From Nancy Grace's interview with Brown Family Attorney, Parks, about the autopsy showing all gunshot wounds came from the front, none at close (a few feet) range.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/ng.01.html

(NANCY Now, we are also finding out that, according to the autopsy report -- and Daryl Parks with us from Michael Brown`s family. Baden said -- well, the autopsy says all the shots were from the front, Daryl.

D. PARKS: Let me explain to you a few things. Number one, you`re going to notice that there`s an injury to his hand. That particular injury probably came at a close range, you`re going to find out later. Second, when we talk about front to back -- front to back mainly...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Let me...

D. PARKS: ... applies to two things...

GRACE: ... let me hear what you`re saying. You`re saying that the gunshot wound to his right hand is at close range, although the autopsy is saying no shots at close range.

D. PARKS: Well, let me explain it like this. It`s a big gash.

GRACE: What?

D. PARKS: It`s a big gash, so as you hear more about it, it`s a big gash on his hand.

GRACE: So it`s not -- are you telling me it`s not a gunshot?

D. PARKS: Now, how that`s -- no, it is a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet, but it`s a rather large gash in his hand.

GRACE: Well, why do you say it`s at close range?

D. PARKS: Secondly -- well, it`s pretty big and it`s pretty open.

GRACE: That doesn`t mean close range.

D. PARKS: Now, how and when it happened, I`ll leave that to the experts.
​

 

[DebinGA]

Yes, Mr. Johnson----get the juvie record and let the cards fall where they may.

The county should treat all such requests the same, no exceptions.

 

[cady]

The OJ verdict changed me as a person. First trial I watched every single second of....
The verdict gutted me.

Yup. me too. I had heard of rogue juries, but that was my first experience in witnessing it. Still bugs me. So does the Ramsey case. oh well. JMO


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oops, I did response on wrong line again. SORRY! jmo

 

[katydid23]

According to my brother, 30 years on the job- as soon as the unarmed perp is running away, the danger is over. He KNEW he had no weapon. That seems more like revenge, than protecting anyone. IMHO- spraying the bullets all over that street shows how little interest he had in protecting the community.

So your LE brother thinks this officer should be arrested for murder?

 

[Phoebeb]

Has anyone heard about another witness to the shooting named James McKnight? Here is what the NY Times said:

James McKnight, who also said he saw the shooting, said that Mr. Brown’s hands were up right after he turned around to face the officer.

“I saw him stumble toward the officer, but not rush at him,” Mr. McKnight said in a brief interview. “The officer was about six or seven feet away from him.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?_r=0

I can't find the link to the interview and have never heard of him...

 

[EvilSoup]

I wish I could agree with your pops, but I think to err is human:

DNA Exonerations Nationwide
[Print Version]

There have been 317 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 38 states; since 2000, there have been 250 exonerations.

• 18 of the 317 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.

• The average length of time served by exonerees is 13.5 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,249.

• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 27.

Races of the 317 exonerees:

199 African Americans
94 Caucasians
22 Latinos
2 Asian American

• The true suspects and/or perpetrators have been identified in 154 of the DNA exoneration cases.

• Since 1989, there have been tens of thousands of cases where prime suspects were identified and pursued—until DNA testing (prior to conviction) proved that they were wrongly accused.

• In more than 25 percent of cases in a National Institute of Justice study, suspects were excluded once DNA testing was conducted during the criminal investigation (the study, conducted in 1995, included 10,060 cases where testing was performed by FBI labs).

• 65 percent of the people exonerated through DNA testing have been financially compensated. 29 states, the federal government, and the District of Columbia have passed laws to compensate people who were wrongfully incarcerated. Awards under these statutes vary from state to state.

• An Innocence Project review of our closed cases from 2004 - 2010 revealed that 22 percent of cases were closed because of lost or destroyed evidence.

• The Innocence Project was involved in 173 of the 317 DNA exonerations. Others were helped by Innocence Network organizations, private attorneys and by pro se defendants in a few instances.

• 30 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit.


http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php

No, I get it. But I do think this; it ain't perfect, but it is the best model we've got. Like everything about our government, it is a living, breathing, thing can be tweaked and changed by us.

I guess I just believe that in order for our legal system to work (even with flaws) we have to accept it's verdicts (at least in a legal sense). If people had waited outside the jail for Casey Anthony in order to execute what most people believe to be "justice", then that's no good. (I am ashamed to say I would not have needed a tissue, though).

I am not very good at making a succinct point, sorry. But the thing is, we have to adhere to the verdicts of our courts because otherwise it will be anarchy.

Yes, there is injustice, and OFTEN. But we cannot just say "well I'm gonna give that Casey some real justice!" (but I can believe with all my heart that she is a murderous waste of air)

I do, however, thank you for posting the stats. And I agree. There is a lot of work to be done.

 

[EvilSoup]

What's happening? I fell into some sort of parallel universe...I'm replying to posts...my posts show ...what I quoted isn't. My thanks button isn't working...

Is it just me?


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Mine is doing the wonky dance, too.

 

[Starry Night]

So your LE brother thinks this officer should be arrested for murder?

Truthy did not say that at all. You are conjecturing in the worst way.

 

[Lovejac]

I just realized MB and DJ were walking in the middle of the street coming towards OW. I thought he was following them this whole time.

All posts are MOO

Wow. Me, too.

I had always envisioned Officer Wilson being behind them.

So he was behind them, passed them and then backed up diagonally to wait for them as they were walking up to his car.

DJ caught in another lie