MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[popsicle]

STLtoday ‏@stltoday 36m
Fundraisers for Darren Wilson halted while awaiting legal advice http://bit.ly/1qXV88W

 

[EvilSoup]

BBM: What LE criminal activity investigation is going on in this case? There is an investigation by LE and the prosecutor's office into the death of MB, which is SOP. The FBI is investigating a civil rights violation regarding MB's death. Have we heard there are charges of department criminal activity in Ferguson?

Darren Wilson, the police officer who killed Brown on August 9, could stand trial for his actions. St. Louis County is conducting a criminal investigation.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-strong-legal-case-against-darren-wilson-265675

ETA: after reading backwards, I see that Ferguson P.D. is not under St. Louis County PD?
So I think it is a good thing, then. It distances FPD from the investigation of one of it's officers.

I was under the earlier impression FPD was under jurisdiction of SLCPD......... I feel dizzy!

 

[rob]

I totally agree, but I think the point is that more affluent kids have a much wider safety net that keeps them out of "the system" when caught with drugs. As several people here have described, their families often have the resources to help give the kids more chances to get straightened out before getting incarcerated. I think that support makes a huge difference in the kids lives, but many families don;t have the resources.
What was the stat in Ferguson- black people twice a slikely to getting their car searched as whites- even though they were finding more drugs on whites? There can be a reluctance on PDs part to charge people perceived to have more resources- good lawyers or powerful contacts, or even to charge people they can better "relate" to. I think a lot of people can be guilty of giving breaks or preferential treatment to those they can relate to, not realizing that this actually contributes to institutionalizing racism.

I personally think its based more on the reaction they get from the person stopped. A person who is respectful and 'oh my God, my parents are going to kill me' will probably be treated differently from a 'who the he!! you think you stopping, get your M-F'ing hands off me' response.
Respect gets you a long way in this world, regardless of race.

All MOO only

 

[Oceans]

Ferguson fundraiser mystery solved -- or is it?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-fundraisers-20140901-story.html#page=1

That's interesting! What I noticed: the names of the two support sites mentioned in this article sound very similar!

And yet: I had seen two more support sites which as well sound similar! But not the same. One got shut down in the meantime as it had very hateful and threatening comments.

My first thought was: which one is actually legitimate? I was thinking about Sandy Hook donation scams. And informed the one site which looked more legitimate about the other, hateful site. The response sounded a bit naive. And by now, seeing that there are even two more sites (mentioned in the article) ~ I'm confused.

I do not intend to promote any to those sites, I just wonder if the people behind those sites are honest and not scammers. JMO.

 

[DeDee]

The person in the photo is not MB's cousin. Do you have a link that states otherwise?

Did you not bother to check out the reporter's video story in the link provided that shows the picture of the cousin with the Glock and the money?
If that is not accurate, then post a link so I can be corrected.

moo as always

 

[EvilSoup]

Grand jurors actually have a lot of power. They can also be used for an investigative tool or to seek an indictment or both.

Evidence is presented to the through testimony of witnesses.

The ADAs in cases like this usually ask questions of the witnesses. Then all of the jurors individually are able to ask as many questions as they want of each and every witnesses. When I was a grand juror the grand jury asked way more questions that the DA. The DAs are really a small part in the GJ. When my hubby had grand jury he also said the grand jurors asked many more questions than the DA did and they also have subpoena power and during his duty they summoned additional witnesses in a couple of the cases that the DA hadn't call.

They have all the power they need before rendering an indictment or no bill. Jurors who sit in judgment on criminal cases usually doesn't have such power. Some states do allow questions to be asked of jurors but they are limited and of course they have no subpoena power to call further witnesses either.

They are actually very thorough in their duties before they decided to no bill a case or true bill it.

When 12 people are given the power to ask questions believe me they can think of a lot of questions to ask.

Thank you so much for this!!!!

Another question, if you don't mind:

Does a GJ have to work under a time restraint (I know they are elected for a set amount of time), but if, say, they needed more time to gather and review all they needed to make a decision, could they for more time, even if they had to extend their tenure?

 

[DeDee]

Piaget's video of the CS has been edited. This is her initial videotape with her response. Listen to her name calling of the suspect:



My apologies. Member removed video from post.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did you not bother to check out the reporter's video story in the link provided that shows the picture of the cousin with the Glock and the money?
If that is not accurate, then post a link so I can be corrected.

moo as always

I'm not understanding the connection to MB..
I can't find anything anywhere that states this is his cousin?


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[BayouBelle_LA]

Did you not bother to check out the reporter's video story in the link provided that shows the picture of the cousin with the Glock and the money?
If that is not accurate, then post a link so I can be corrected.

moo as always

Respectfully, the link you provided (including video story) does not state this is Michael Brown's cousin. How can I post a link that states this person is NOT Michael Brown's cousin? Respectfully, I think the burden of proof lies with you.

 

[Minette]

To the point upthread, yes, kids from primarily white, affluent high schools do shoplift for a 'lark.' But do they grab a shopkeeper by the front of his shirt and then throw him against some racks? Please, can we STOP trying to reframe an assault on a much older and smaller man as some kind of innocent 'prank'? If MB had stuck the cigars down his pants or just walked out without assaulting the shopkeeper that would have been one thing. But that isn't what he did. (And if those kids from affluent white schools--whatever those are--DO assault the shopkeeper, then throw them in jail for strong-arm robbery.)

Also, MB's uncle, Pastor Charles Ewing, was the one who who said during his eulogy at the funeral that "Michael Brown's blood is crying from the ground, crying for vengeance, crying for justice." He then tried to sweep the Sandy Hook shootings and black on black crime up into his 'lesson,' but frankly, once he started calling for 'vengeance' he lost my attention and respect. At any rate, it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't believe that was actually his nephew in the store security camera video, despite the fact that DJ admitted it was. http://ktla.com/2014/08/25/mourners-lining-up-for-michael-browns-funeral/

 

[Frydaddy]

Piaget's video of the CS have been edited. This is her initial videotape with her response. Listen to her name calling of the suspect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq5CSN-Bly8

And yet they still defend her as a credible witness!

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am so disheartened by the media coverage of this case.

I always knew not to rely on the media for unbiased reporting but I don't think I've ever seen more agenda driven & crappy reporting in my life than I have in this case.

(I'm certain it's the new normal)

I'm wondering if the administration of Websleuths is seeing it and if it's possible to reexamine the policy of only linking MSM....in the pursuit of the truth of the matter.

Respectfully & disgusted with the MSM


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[EvilSoup]

I'm glad that you finally agree that the protesters are not looking at all the facts of this case and will never change their minds even with the true facts.

It's sad really. They are using MB as an excuse to run wild in the community IMO

I agree, and I believe the same is true should OW be indicted. Some will say he was unfairly indicted to appease the community, regardless of evidence to the contrary. (My gut says he won't be because there is no such evidence MOO, but still)

There are many people on both "sides" who have already decided what's what and are cherry picking to support their "side".

I want to see the original AR and the GJ findings before I decide. I have a gut feeling, but I am not going to judge a dead man based on my gut or his previous record. If the feds think there needs to be an investigation that's good enough for me. I will wait to see what they find.

I hope it's soon (patience is not my strong suit) but I would rather them conduct a thorough investigation than a quick one. MOO.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Meaning, that I think it is cultural. I have been to pow wows, 49ers[parties after pow wows], just hanging with family and friends in all parts of this country and Canada, I was recently at viewings/funeral where there were, in 3 days times, well over a thousand Indians there and not at any time have I heard an Indian use that or any similar phrase. This includes my family members in Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, North Carolina, Florida and Kansas.

I do know that there are cultural differences that play a large part in actions and perception of those actions from those on the outside. I was stopped for speeding in northern Missouri on an Interstate. I was with a female friend and we were bringing supplies to Elders on Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota. The officer saw all of the boxes and bags in back of the van and wanted to know where we were going and what were the things in the van. When he took my license, he said he saw my bumper sticker that said 'Proud to be Indian' and asked if I preferred to be called Native or American Indian, I told him that I thought human would be the best way to go. Unless you have been profiled, I think it is difficult for others to understand the mindset of those who do the profiling. Do I wish it were different and profiling didn't exist? Of course, but I know differently.

I know Jaci from other threads, so I'm sure that's what she must have meant.

My grandpa was waaay ahead of his time on race. He had friends of all different races, ethnicities in a time when that just wasn't as common among those with his working class roots. Neighborhoods were more segregated back then, as were a lot of occupations. So how was it that my grandpa was lucky enough to be able to make and maintain such an eclectic group of friends?

He ran the state liquor store. Wasn't no race or class of people that didn't come on in to make their purchase and stick around to chat up grandpa. Some of those conversations ended up progressing to real life friendships with people he never would have met otherwise.

Not to say he was perfect. When his brother went to WWII and came home with a Japanese bride, it caused a rift in their relationship that lasted for decades. Any color of American was okay with my grandpa, but the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor! My Aunt Masako (we called her Macha) was a lovely woman but for a long time he didn't even want to consider that possibility. We all have our blindspots.

 

[EvilSoup]

And yet they still defend her as a credible witness!

Who does?

 

[EvilSoup]

I am so disheartened by the media coverage of this case.

I always knew not to rely on the media for unbiased reporting but I don't think I've ever seen more agenda driven & crappy reporting in my life than I have in this case.

(I'm certain it's the new normal)

I'm wondering if the administration of Websleuths is seeing it and if it's possible to reexamine the policy of only linking MSM....in the pursuit of the truth of the matter.

Respectfully & disgusted with the MSM


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I see your media bias, and raise you crappy fact-checking.......

 

[Linda7NJ]

Meaning, that I think it is cultural. I have been to pow wows, 49ers[parties after pow wows], just hanging with family and friends in all parts of this country and Canada, I was recently at viewings/funeral where there were, in 3 days times, well over a thousand Indians there and not at any time have I heard an Indian use that or any similar phrase. This includes my family members in Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, North Carolina, Florida and Kansas.

I do know that there are cultural differences that play a large part in actions and perception of those actions from those on the outside. I was stopped for speeding in northern Missouri on an Interstate. I was with a female friend and we were bringing supplies to Elders on Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota. The officer saw all of the boxes and bags in back of the van and wanted to know where we were going and what were the things in the van. When he took my license, he said he saw my bumper sticker that said 'Proud to be Indian' and asked if I preferred to be called Native or American Indian, I told him that I thought human would be the best way to go. Unless you have been profiled, I think it is difficult for others to understand the mindset of those who do the profiling. Do I wish it were different and profiling didn't exist? Of course, but I know differently.

I'm not understanding how this interaction is inappropriate?


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[Minette]

So, I have served on a grand jury. During this time of service we heard many cases, one for murder, one for rape, a whole bunch for robbery and assault, and one property feud that had been going on for years and years and involved a bunch of cows. We passed that last one to the next grand jury, as several grand juries before us had done. The prosecutor explained to us again and again that we weren't there to determine guilt or innocence, only to decide whether enough evidence existed that a crime had been committed *by the accused* to take it forward to trial. On the murder, a guy was shot in the head in the middle of the street and while a drug associate was implicated, there just wasn't anything concrete to tie the two together. (The gun was never found, the ballistics were unclear, there were no witnesses other than a CI who himself had an extensive record.) So it was clear that a crime had been committed--we got to look at some horrible photographs of a guy lying in the street dead of a gunshot wound to the head--but there wasn't enough evidence to tie it to the individual who had been arrested, so no true bill. The rape case was an instance of 'date rape' between two college students, both of whom showed up to testify, the accused all spit-shined and earnest, saying he was sure she wanted to have sex because she went out with him, the alleged victim traumatized, having dropped out of school and being under treatment for PTSD by a psychiatrist and was on anti-anxiety meds for her testimony, who said that they went out, had too much to drink and she woke up back in his room with him on top of her raping her. The DA *clearly* wanted a true bill on that one, but after he left us to our deliberations there was a faction of "she asked for it" panel members who managed to get a majority vote over those of us who thought just because you go out with some guy and drink too much you aren't automatically agreeing to sex. So that one was a 'no true bill,' too. It was infuriating. Anyway, what happened was that the DA would lay out the whole situation, with evidence both incriminating and exculpatory and then he would leave the room while we reviewed it and made decisions. We were allowed to ask questions of the witnesses (mostly LEO) and could ask for more info. Defense attorneys weren't allowed in, but defendants were (as in the rape case) as well as other witnesses. Most of the time we DID return a true bill, just because there was clearly a lot of evidence showing that a crime had been committed AND tying it to an accused individual. We didn't always feel the person was necessarily guilty, just that we couldn't ignore the facts presented to us. And again, the DA presented both incriminating and exculpatory evidence, but didn't really 'argue' it either way, though you could often tell what HE thought about a given case. Nevertheless, he didn't always get his way, notably in both the murder and the rape case I cited above. A GJ really is a pretty independent entity, for better or worse.

 

[katydid23]

Meaning, that I think it is cultural. I have been to pow wows, 49ers[parties after pow wows], just hanging with family and friends in all parts of this country and Canada, I was recently at viewings/funeral where there were, in 3 days times, well over a thousand Indians there and not at any time have I heard an Indian use that or any similar phrase. This includes my family members in Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, North Carolina, Florida and Kansas.

I do know that there are cultural differences that play a large part in actions and perception of those actions from those on the outside. I was stopped for speeding in northern Missouri on an Interstate. I was with a female friend and we were bringing supplies to Elders on Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota. The officer saw all of the boxes and bags in back of the van and wanted to know where we were going and what were the things in the van. When he took my license, he said he saw my bumper sticker that said 'Proud to be Indian' and asked if I preferred to be called Native or American Indian, I told him that I thought human would be the best way to go. Unless you have been profiled, I think it is difficult for others to understand the mindset of those who do the profiling. Do I wish it were different and profiling didn't exist? Of course, but I know differently.

BBM

I'm not sure I understand this part. Are you saying he was profiling you by asking if you preferred to be called Indian or Native American? I mean, you did have a sticker saying proud to be Indian, right?

Was he wrong to wonder and ask about all of the boxes of supplies? Isn't that his job?

 

[Jacie Estes]

Which reinforces my point.

I'm not understanding how this interaction is inappropriate?


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