MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[momrids6]

As I mentioned before, a car is not really a luxury in many parts of America, especially in the suburbs - not if you don't want to walk miles and miles or spend hours getting around. Ferguson is not actually in the city (where most of the good transit systems can usually be found), but is a suburb of St. Louis.

I live in a rural community with zero public transportation. There is plenty of public transportation in Ferguson- bus stops in that neighborhood.

 

[bettybaby00]

Sorry but I seriously think they could have at least TRIED non-lethal methods (tazer, pepper spray, etc...), there were two of them, huge advantage and one could shoot the assailant dead the moment the other was truly in fear for their life.

You're mixing two narratives. I was responding to the suggestion the cops lock themselves in the their car, cause a knife wouldn't be able to harm them, yet the guy sure could have harmed other people.

Honestly, I haven't followed this case, so I won't try to pass myself off as someone who is fully aware of all the details. However, I can't help but comment when it's suggested the cops lock themselves in their car in order to be out of the line of danger.

All the arguments that have been made with regard to MB apply...cops aren't allowed to run from confrontation, especially if by doing so they leave other people vulnerable.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My job for over 30 years was teaching children who lived below the poverty level.

The last few years I worked with the homeless which included women from the Domestic Violence Shelter.

I would go out in the community with them to provide educational opportunities and community connections until stable housing could be found.

I am so thankful for this is my life because there is no reason in the world that lives in trauma would have intersected my world.

I wish everyone could develop friendships with people whose lives have been a series of unfortunate experiences.

Many of the women came from alcoholic homes. I will not say 100% , but all I ever met that had drug addiction came from alcoholic homes.

Many of the women had become mothers at age 14 or 15 because they were sexual abuse victims.

Everyday I thank God that I was born in a good situation because that is what happened to me. I did not create loving parents who were able to work and provide a decent home and good schools.

It is merely accident of birth that I was not born under a freeway overpass.

That is great that you have the empathy, patience, and energy to provide assistance and support.
I'm sure you have positively impacted many people's live and serve as a role model to many.
I just want to add that it is possible to come from an alcoholic environment that is mixed with sexual abuse and become highly successful in academia and in a career as well. But one thing is for certain, one can never lean on the excuse that they shouldn't achieve because the odds are stacked against them. If you believe you should never expect much -- that's when you're giving in. If you believe groups of people hate you and are holding you down, then you will buy it and be held down. Anger only destroys from within and built-in excuses for failure only flame that anger.

Coming from a point of dysfunction makes some of life more difficult.
But overcoming it can and does happen.

Kudos once again, human....for all you do through your strength to help society. My blessings for sure.

 

[EvilSoup]

My job for over 30 years was teaching children who lived below the poverty level.

The last few years I worked with the homeless which included women from the Domestic Violence Shelter.

I would go out in the community with them to provide educational opportunities and community connections until stable housing could be found.

I am so thankful for this is my life because there is no reason in the world that lives in trauma would have intersected my world.

I wish everyone could develop friendships with people whose lives have been a series of unfortunate experiences.

Many of the women came from alcoholic homes. I will not say 100% , but all I ever met that had drug addiction came from alcoholic homes.

Many of the women had become mothers at age 14 or 15 because they were sexual abuse victims.

Everyday I thank God that I was born in a good situation because that is what happened to me. I did not create loving parents who were able to work and provide a decent home and good schools.

It is merely accident of birth that I was not born under a freeway overpass.

ITA. Great post.

Not all oppression is economic. Often it is domestic abuse, sexual abuse or growing up in a home with drug or alcohol abuse.

Jumping off your post.....

<modsnip>

 

[Sonya610]

So say this was your husband and brother....who would be bait ?? IMO
I don't think that is a realistic idea. Sorry ( in my opinion)

Like Trident I am very *very* far from being a bleeding heart, and I think the killing of MB was likely perfectly justified.

On the other hand that young guy was obviously very mentally disturbed, and I don't think he was a real threat to their life at that instant. They weren't "thinking" they were just acting like robots.

They HAD to realize he was crazy when he kept screaming "Shoot me, shoot me". That is not something that an assailant threatening your life says.

 

[bettybaby00]

He wasn't looking to harm anyone else. In that whole intro piece, he was threatening nobody. And when the police pulled up, he wasn't threatening them either. He was asking them to kill HIM! Which is, of course, very sad. But he did not deserve to die. Police should not comply with "suicide by cop" if they can help it. He needed mental health treatment, not gunfire.

:sigh:

So if the cops hid in their car, isn't it likely he would have continued escalating his behavior until they were forced to "comply" with his demand? Here's a scenario, he grabs some innocent bystander in the process, and threatens their life.

 

[jmcgladr]

:sigh:

So if the cops hid in their car, isn't it likely he would have continued escalating his behavior until they were forced to "comply" with his demand? Here's a scenario, he grabs some innocent bystander in the process, and threatens their life.

It seems like all of the innocent bystanders were keeping their distance. I didn't see anyone nearby in the video footage. I don't think we know that there is a likelihood he would have escalated his behavior. What do you base that theory on?

 

[jggordo]

I agree, I did not like the "suicide by cop" shooting. There were two police officers, heavily armed, the kid had a steak knife and kept screaming "SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME NOW!!!".

He wasn't saying "I will kill you" he was asking them to kill him. I am not comfortable with that shooting, they could have at LEAST called for psyche backup before shooting him.

I am not saying I think the officers should face charges, and it was a quick death for a suicidal very disturbed young man, but I am not sure I would trust their judgement and I am not sure they should be on the job.

My Brother has been an Administrator at a State mental institution for 30 years. There is a constant battle as to who should be or not be institutionalized. There is only so much room. With todays medical and mental health there are so many that IF they take their medication they can live full lives. The reality is there isn't anyone who can make them take them or afford them. Even more real is if he had been taken in for a 72 hour hold and given meds, the same situation in all probability would happen again with Lord knows the outcome.

IMO, this situation for the man with the knife was not a LE failure as much as a Mental Health System failure.

JMO's

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I agree, I did not like the "suicide by cop" shooting. There were two police officers, heavily armed, the kid had a steak knife and kept screaming "SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME NOW!!!".

He wasn't saying "I will kill you" he was asking them to kill him. I am not comfortable with that shooting, they could have at LEAST called for psyche backup before shooting him.

I am not saying I think the officers should face charges, and it was a quick death for a suicidal very disturbed young man, but I am not sure I would trust their judgement and I am not sure they should be on the job.

BBM: Sonya---there is no "psych backup"....they closed the psych wards with the white jackets in the 1980's. I wish they hadn't but it is what it is. Crazy people and sane people will equally get shot if they are erratic, wielding a knife, and not obeying law enforcement.

Law enforcement are not psychiatrists or counselors. That's why I would never be confrontational or mouthy....much less anything more than that. I am completly aware of what their role is.

 

[Elley Mae]

I thought this thread was about mike brown.

 

[WVWoman]

Like Trident I am very *very* far from being a bleeding heart, and I think the killing of MB was likely perfectly justified.

On the other hand that young guy was obviously very mentally disturbed, and I don't think he was a real threat to their life at that instant. They weren't "thinking" they were just acting like robots.

They HAD to realize he was crazy when he kept screaming "Shoot me, shoot me". That is not something that an assailant threatening your life says.

True but I think if he was that willing to be yelling" shoot me" he would not hesitate to attack an officer to get the result he was wanting.Being the niece of a now deceased Baltimore Officer many times we waited in fear, praying for some tense situations like this to be over,mental or not they are a real threat.IMO

 

[Sonya610]

ITA. Great post.

Not all oppression is economic. Often it is domestic abuse, sexual abuse or growing up in a home with drug or alcohol abuse.

Jumping off your post.....

And IMO, black people, regardless of income, are not always given the same treatment as whites. So saying "well, I grew up poor and I don't whine about it" doesn't really apply.

And different continents have different cultures/civilizations. If everyone was the same then there wouldn't be such huge historical differences in culture and civilization for tens of thousands of years.

I for one recognize diversity.

 

[gngr~snap]

Here is an article with the distance measured off. It also has a video about how quickly someone weilding a knife can get an officer. They are trained to not ever let it get to this point.
http://heavy.com/news/2014/08/kajieme-powell-st-louis-video-shooting-dead/


All posts are MOO

 

[jmcgladr]

And different continents have different cultures/civilizations. If everyone was the same then there wouldn't be such huge historical differences in culture and civilization for tens of thousands of years.

I for one recognize diversity.

I don't really get this comment. Everyone in Ferguson, from the cops to the shopkeepers to the people milling on the streets, is a part of America and its melting pot culture. Some may be from other continents, but most were probably born and raised on this one.

 

[Elley Mae]

Powell walked out of the Six Stars Market, at 8701 Riverview, without paying for two energy drinks, and the store owner told him to stop. A few minutes later, Powell came back and took a package of muffins or pastries, Dotson said, adding that the store owner walked out with him and asked him to pay for the items.

Powell started throwing the items on the street and sidewalk. St. Louis Alderman Dionne Flowers, who owns a nearby beauty shop, witnessed the encounter and told officers the man was acting erratically and had a knife.

Dotson said the store owner and the alderman said the suspect was “armed with a knife, acting erratically, pacing back and forth in the street, talking to himself.”

The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Two arriving officers ordered Powell to get down, but he became more agitated and walked toward them, reaching for his waistband. Witnesses told police the man was yelling, “Shoot me, kill me now,” during the encounter, Dotson said.

The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.

“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_85d27316-a17a-5e0a-b1d6-8a6753e2fcb2.html

 

[Lovejac]

NPR: "Typically, he says, someone gets stopped for a rolling stop at a stop sign, or for a broken tail light. Then police find other problems. "It's driving while suspended, no proof of insurance and failure to register a vehicle," he says. The fines and fees can add up to hundreds, even thousands of dollars."

None are minor offenses. Everyone stopped for a minor offense must produce a current driver's license, proof of insurance, and car registration. I imagine that's the law throughout America.

I certainly don't want to be driving on the same roads as someone with no insurance, a suspended license and unregistered car! Does anyone? I'm glad they're ticketing drivers like that, as a matter of fact, I EXPECT them to.

 

[katydid23]

Racial tensions are part of the problem in Ferguson, but there are other factors at work.

The town of Ferguson balances it's budget with fines for minor infractions. The police are expected to issue tickets for things that would at most result in a warning in other communities. A recent study found the average household in Ferguson owes about $2,500 in fines and fees.

The people of Ferguson do not see the police as part of the community. The police seem to share this attitude. It isn't helped by the fact that most of the officers live outside of town.

Compared to Canada, police in the US are quick to resort to lethal force. Just a few days after MB was shot, a clearly disturbed man was gunned down only a few miles from Ferguson. The police made no attempt to calm him down when they arrived on the scene. Nor did they attempt to subdue him with non lethal weapons. They just got out of the car with firearms drawn and started yelling. When the suspect made a small move toward the police, they started shooting and kept firing even after he was down.

BBM

I find this criticism pretty unfair. Are the cops supposed to move into town and raise their families right there, where they arrest people daily? They are supposed to have a gang raid,right down the block from where their wife and baby are walking to the market? How do we expect them to do that?

I know that our local cops purposely do not live in the exact same area that they work. For their own safety and that of their families, there needs to be some buffer zone. Perps routinely make death threats on those who arrest them, those who investigate them. Are the cops expected to bust a man and put him in jail, knowing their kids are in the same school that day? What kind of pressure would that be for OW's kid, to be sitting at the bus stop in Ferguson right now?

 

[Little Jedi]

Maybe some do but some never do.

I watch MSM cable news outlets everyday. Lots of misinformation is put out that they never retract nor correct. They just run with the misinformation over and over again.

Imo, journalism has changed. There was a time if the media had a video they would never put it on the air UNTIL it was vetted to be authentic but now they air it anyway knowing it hasn't been authenticated at the time.

Journalism has become more about ratings and being the one to have 'breaking news' than worrying about what they put out is the truth or not. They just run with it nowadays.

Another drastic change I have seen is reporters are reporting with a biased slant these days depending on the agendas of the media outlet they work for. I have also seen them try to be part of the story itself and making the story about them instead of just reporting the facts. Don Lemon has been the worst concerning this case, imo. Real journalist years ago did not inject their own personal emotions and opinions about any case. They remained neutral as they should have and simply reported the facts and the citizens could decide what to believe based on the vetted facts that were released. Those days have been long gone and will never return, imo.

In this case I have even seen some reporters be a part of inciting the anger and passions of others hoping something bad would happen so they would have the latest breaking news story.

Of course they can be sued but they rarely are and they really don't care if they are anyway. Even if they have to pay out funds later on the rating boost they got for putting out misinformation offsets it.

Some of the MSM have been the worst reporters concerning this case. IMO

IMO

Apologies - I'm just catching-up but I really need to say
"Thank You OBE"

 

[Lovejac]

Considering I got a ticket for my plate registration being out of date two weeks ago that is costing me a $120 fine to make right and I am the working poor who has spent the last three summers living without gas in my home because I can't afford the bill, I am less than impressed by those who use it as an excuse to say the rules are unfair. Insurance is a requirement. Registration is a requirement. A valid Drivers License is a requirement. I broke the rules, I was at a stoplight. A police officer rolled up behind me, and sure enough as soon as the light changed he pulled me over. Did I scream it is unfair and raise a ruckus? No.

Because the laws and rules apply to me (a poor person) just as much as they do to others. I accepted my ticket, apologized for my error, drove off from the police officer, went immediately and addressed the registration problem, went without the rest of the week and this week am paying my fine - no mean feat when you make what I make.

What I did not do was claim I had been profiled or picked on or that I am poor and should get a bye or get mouthy with the officer who pulled me over while doing his job.

Well, well, looky there.

You just took personal responsibility for your actions or rather, your inactions.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

BBM

I find this criticism pretty unfair. Are the cops supposed to move into town and raise their families right there, where they arrest people daily? They are supposed to have a gang raid,right down the block from where their wife and baby are walking to the market? How do we expect them to do that?

I know that our local cops purposely do not live in the exact same area that they work. For their own safety and that of their families, there needs to be some buffer zone. Perps routinely make death threats on those who arrest them, those who investigate them. Are the cops expected to bust a man and put him in jail, knowing their kids are in the same school that day? What kind of pressure would that be for OW's kid, to be sitting at the bus stop in Ferguson right now?

....and just jumping off of what you have said above (which I totally agree with) is this: law enforcement officers frequently file a confidentiality agreement for public records in my county to protect their addresses in order to protect themselves and their families from vigilantes/ gang bangers / vendettas / revenge-seekers, etc.

It is sad they have to do this but this is the society in which we live.