MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[jmcgladr]

BBM

I find this criticism pretty unfair. Are the cops supposed to move into town and raise their families right there, where they arrest people daily? They are supposed to have a gang raid,right down the block from where their wife and baby are walking to the market? How do we expect them to do that?

I know that our local cops purposely do not live in the exact same area that they work. For their own safety and that of their families, there needs to be some buffer zone. Perps routinely make death threats on those who arrest them, those who investigate them. Are the cops expected to bust a man and put him in jail, knowing their kids are in the same school that day? What kind of pressure would that be for OW's kid, to be sitting at the bus stop in Ferguson right now?

OTOH, if some community minded LEOs were living amongst the residents in a crime-ridden area, don't you think they might have a positive influence? I think some of the "us vs. them" mentality in policing AND in some communities needs to be dealt with. I also don't think that we should relegate and segregate people to live in *****holes based on their race or their income level. Mixed income, diverse communities seem to have far less problems withe crime. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Boytwnmom]

released by the Ferguson Police Dept. Names of the store Manager and witness/911 caller and other store employee were blacked out pursuant to Sunshine law exceptions, but the narrative clearly describes their statements to police confirming that the robbery occurred:

SO I RETURNED TO .· ·~ TO CONTACT THE EMPLOYEE THERE. I CONTACTED . _ ON THE PARKING LOT, WHO CONTINUED TO POINT UP W
FLORISSANT TOWARD QUIKTRIP AND SAY, "HE WENT THAT WAY." HE WAS INDICATING WITH HIS HANDS TOWARD HIS CHEST AND THEN NORTH ON W FLORISSANT. I STILL COULD NOT SEE THE SUSPECT ON W FLORISSANT, AND .. · . I WENT INSIDE TO CONTACT A . CLERK, WHO WAS NOT IDENTIFIED AT THAT TIME, AND .· AND. PATRON, WHO WAS NOT IDENTIFIED AT THAT TIME, WHO ADVISED THE SUSPECT TOOK CIGARS AND PUSHED _ON HIS WAY OUT. HE WAS WEARING A WHITE T-SHIRT, KHAKI LONGER SHORTS, YELLOW SOCKS, AND A RED CARDINALS BALL CAP. THEY ALSO STATED THAT ANOTHER B/M WAS WITH HIM, BUT GAVE NO FURTHER DESCRIPTION ON THAT SUSPECT. I GAVE OUT THIS INFORMATION OVER THE RADIO AND DROVE NORTHBOUND ON W FLORISSANT TO TRY TO FIND THE SUSPECT. I DID NOT LOCATE THE SUSPECTS ON W FLORISSANT, SO I WENT INTO QUIKTRIP TO SEARCH FOR THE SUSPECTS, AND DID NOT LOCATE THEM.

The offense noted in the Report is:

ROBBERY(F) 2ND-STRONG ARM-CONVENIENCE STO 569.03 1202003

The Manager is noted as:

[X] Willing to Prosecute

There are still photos of the robbery and Michael Brown and Darian Johnson are fully described by age, race, height & weight, birthdate, SSN and noted as "suspects identified".

So, to me, this just doesn't seem like an ambiguous situation. Whether or not the actual crime victim initially called 911 is completely irrelevant. Anyone observing a crime can report it-it's not like only crimes reported by certain victims get investigated. I really don't get where all this questioning of the robbery comes from. We have a police report with eyewitness descriptions, video and still pictures, admissions by Darian Johnson and, yet, it's still being questioned. It feels like there is no longer any reality, no matter how apparent, that can be agreed upon any more....

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/national/ferguson-police-department-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

I bought into the whole "MB committed a strong arm robbery" thing for quite a while too, but I too am starting to question if this was really the case. I'll leave it at that, because I don't have any MSM links to back up the other scenarios I've heard suggested. I have read, though, that the store clerk never actually called in a robbery at his store, or filled out a robbery report, which seems odd to me. Apparently another customer did - but did that customer have the whole story of what happened?

 

[Lovejac]

Laws are for everyone. Period.

Cars are a luxury, if a person can't afford to maintain it legally they shouldn't own one.

It's about priorities.

My husband wants a boat in the worst way. We can afford to buy the boat...but not all of the other costs associated with it...

guess what...we are not getting a boat.

If I couldn't afford to feed my own children, my children certainly wouldn't have gaming systems and Jordan's on their feet.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM

:clap: :clap: My boys hear 'no, we can't afford that' more often than not. We don't do credit cards anymore so if we don't have the money, we don't buy it. It's a very simple concept.

 

[EvilSoup]

I don't really get this comment. Everyone in Ferguson, from the cops to the shopkeepers to the people milling on the streets, is a part of America and its melting pot culture. Some may be from other continents, but most were probably born and raised on this one.

Well it is a melting pot, yes. But people are still shaped by religion, culture, personal experience, etc.

I remember reading a case about a 19-year-old Muslim student here in the US who faked her own disappearance/abduction to escaped her arranged marriage of 5 months.

At first I thought "Why didn't she just TELL her parents "NO! ?" "Why did she go through with the marriage?"

The more I read, the more I realized her culture teaches women to be subservient to husbands, fathers, brothers, in-laws.....pretty much everyone. A single woman is basically the lowest form of humanity. She is chattel.

I have been blessed with choices and decisions about my own life. My experience/culture would allow me to avoid a marriage I did not want.

This woman was coming from a very different place, and acted/reacted in a way totally foreign to me.

That is what I try to remember; even though we may live in the same place, we may not have cone from the same place. (In many ways)

 

[Amber29]

I thought this thread was about mike brown.

Seriously it's gotten way off topic with this knife guy. I keep getting confused which is being discussed.

 

[LambChop]

OTOH, if some community minded LEOs were living amongst the residents in a crime-ridden area, don't you think they might have a positive influence? I think some of the "us vs. them" mentality in policing AND in some communities needs to be dealt with. I also don't think that we should relegate and segregate people to live in *****holes based on their race or their income level. Mixed income, diverse communities seem to have far less problems withe crime. Maybe that's just me.

Is there a link that tells us all Ferguson LE live in other communities? I believe they have to live within the area. It's been that way within LE for years.

 

[Lovejac]

yup, my community definitely has its share of disposable income. never said it didn't.

my later post however, describes how people need to determine what's a priority when spending money. if all these low income protestors can't afford to feed their kids, how do they afford to buy the iPhones they're using to "document" their oppression?

http://www.obamaphone.com/

 

[LambChop]

We do need to get back on topic. There have been plenty of links provided regarding why officers are instructed to carry out deadly force in this thread and previous threads. Please feel free to refresh your memory. If you disagree with the information you find regarding the use of deadly force in other matters there is a political thread in the basement. This thread is for Michael Brown discussions only.

Thanks, Lambchop

 

[Lovejac]

Thud....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:silencedon't.... :notgood:

 

[Footwarrior]

…
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.

“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_85d27316-a17a-5e0a-b1d6-8a6753e2fcb2.html

Dotson's account doesn't match what actually happened. If you watch the video, the suspect never raises the knife much above his waist. The first shot occurred while the suspect was on a slightly raised area a few feet behind the sidewalk. The officers were in the street, several feet on the other side of the sidewalk. The suspect collapsed forward, falling down to the sidewalk while the officers moved toward him and continued to fire.

ETA: The important point is that eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate, even when the eyewitness is a police officer.

 

[jmcgladr]

Is there a link that tells us all Ferguson LE live in other communities? I believe they have to live within the area. It's been that way within LE for years.

Yep.

"Rarely do small, suburban departments require officers to live in the communities in which they work. As a result, very few do. Some officers commute from as far away as Lincoln and Jefferson counties. Darren Wilson, the Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown, lives in Crestwood"

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_a29dc3e4-91bb-5cf5-9b30-9ebb95c5e1c6.html

 

[EvilSoup]

Is there a link that tells us all Ferguson LE live in other communities? I believe they have to live within the area. It's been that way within LE for years.

http://www.fop.net/programs/research/residency.pdf

Per the document, nope. Lots of places do not require that LEOs live within the municipality.
(Can't copy and paste, it's pdf)

 

[Sonya610]

Odd....a fund for a certain officer was closed yesterday, short of the goal. No message posted as to why.

I have a feeling said officer is having psychological problems about the loss of life. I can't think of any other reasons.

 

[Trident]

Seriously it's gotten way off topic with this knife guy. I keep getting confused which is being discussed.

I believe it's a good discussion, roughly about the same thing - the death of a young black man by LE, only a day or so apart.

I further believe it shows many of us don't condone every action by LE against a black man.

I also believe there is a lot of room for discussion on this topic - it may lead to more knowledge, a softening of stances, or just more understanding. In my opinion, that can't be bad. Any time we can understand (however we do that), is one step closer to empathy, being able to live together without violence and rioting.

I could be wrong, but this is my opinion. Now, if someone would tell the other side of this debate IN Ferguson, forget the haters and the race baiters, we might get somewhere. I would think and hope it could be so.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Well here is a question....let's say no one made a move. Officer standing with gun drawn on the suspect, who is holding a knife. He tells the suspect several times to drop the knife, yet the suspect stands still and refused to drop the knife. Can/should the officer shoot?

NO imo. You get a negotiator in

 

[Amber29]

I believe it's a good discussion, roughly about the same thing - the death of a young black man by LE, only a day or so apart.

I further believe it shows many of us don't condone every action by LE against a black man.

I also believe there is a lot of room for discussion on this topic - it may lead to more knowledge, a softening of stances, or just more understanding. In my opinion, that can't be bad. Any time we can understand (however we do that), is one step closer to empathy, being able to live together without violence and rioting.

I could be wrong, but this is my opinion. Now, if someone would tell the other side of this debate IN Ferguson, forget the haters and the race baiters, we might get somewhere. I would think and hope it could be so.

I do agree with your point here. It's just when we get too deep into that discussion with specifics, it's hard to follow which case it's about. I have not followed that shooting case at all I'm sorry only what I've read here. I can understand why it's been brought up and compared though, it just seemed the thread was getting a little off topic IMO

 

[reedus23]

Is there a link that tells us all Ferguson LE live in other communities? I believe they have to live within the area. It's been that way within LE for years.

No link, I'll see if I can get one, but I'd be surprised if more than a couple did. Wilson, himself, lived in Crestwood apparently, not Ferguson.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

No need, we all saw the video. LE was in no danger. As far as I'm concerned, from what I saw, LE murdered that young man.

Inches and feet, piffle. He stood there, they shot and killed him.

My opinion, of course

It wasn't like they could have caught him with a butterfly net. He had a knife in his right hand and was coming toward the officers.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

There's an amnesty program in StL County where for $10 application and $100 bond, traffic
fees/fines are paid, resulting in a clean record.

http://fox2now.com/2014/07/23/traffic-warrant-ticket-amnesty-program-promises-clean-records/

I think that would help some of them. There are probably some who don't even show up for court appearances and that may make the fines go even higher.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Good morning! As far as the videos go, I find that none of them really show anything. No one videoed the actual event, so any video after the fact really doesn't help unless the videos actually show evidence to substantiate justifiability of the shoot or the use of excessive force. All the videos shot that I can tell are just confirmations of things we already know, such as that MB had been shot by a cop. For example, Piaget shows OW speaking with another officer. She says that shows that he was distraught because he realized that he just shot a boy for no reason. How, exactly, does her video show that? You cannot hear what the officer is saying. He could very well have been explaining how crazy it was that MB was coming at him and that he thought he must have been on something. That he couldn't believe what this kid just did. Only OW and the other officer can truly know what was said during that exchange and my educated guess tells me that conversation has already been documented (i.e. with OWs statement separate from that of the responding officer.)

I'm not exactly sure what value Piaget or anyone else's videos have if they don't show any real evidence of the actual incident.

Hi Duchess.
I have a feeling the actual incident was recorded....we probably haven't heard about it, mhoo