MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[sonjay]

Could be fingerprints or other evidence. That evidence will go to GJ too, sounds like.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm

Rumors of DNA, rumors of fingerprints..... I would love to be a fly on the wall in that grand jury room.

 

[reedus23]

If he did assault a police officer then he DID commit a felony and he WAS a danger to the public at large because LEOs are those we pay to enforce the laws that we the public have made and an assault on one of them is an assault on the law and on the public by proxy. To me, the cigar theft or the refusing to stop walking in the middle of the street weren't the issue, it was assaulting a police officer. If he did that (REGARDLESS of how severe the injuries to OW ended up being) and if he did anything other than immediately freeze and not make any movements toward OW or towards escaping whatsoever (REGARDLESS of what position his hands may or may not have been in) then in my opinion it was a justified shooting. It is very easy to have 20/20 vision when you aren't the one being confronted by TWO individuals (and maybe DJ did not make a single aggressive movement or statement, NEVERTHELESS there were still two of them and one officer and a split second decision to be made. At the moment of the shooting, OW was not privy to MB's hopes, dreams, academic aspirations, juvenile record, age, number of loving family members, potential conversion to religion, preference of playing football or not or ANYTHING other than his actions immediately preceding the shooting. THOSE are what got him shot, IMO. Everything else is just hindsight.

MOO, etc.

I think your post hits the main issues. Many posts only talk about a felony. Many posts only talk about a threat. Your post included those AND the fact that it was immediately necessary in your opinion if MB did anything else besides freeze or if MB moved toward DW in any way. Personally, I don't know the answers yet because we haven't heard DW's version yet, we don't have the forensics or crime scene analysis, but I can't argue with your approach to analyzing it.

 

[Truthy]

Could it be the law breakers in this instance are primarily blacks? Or is everything a grand conspiracy to oppress minorities?

Actually they find drugs on whites much more often when they search them, but still search cars owned by POC much more frequently.
So...... nope.
The link has been posted a few times, would you like it?

 

[Minette]

Thanks, reedus. I really appreciate your logical thought processes and while I'm mostly following other cases at the moment (I'm mostly to be found on Missing or Crimes Against Children threads), I saw your post and wanted to respond even though there is nothing new--in large part because I don't like straw men and you don't seem to deal in them and that makes for such a good discussion. :rose:

 

[Truthy]

The number of tickets Ferguson issues, and the number of arrest warrants the scofflaws of Ferguson accumulate, have nothing to do with the shooting of MB.

If you've read about the issue- it has everything to do with the protests, which is the subject of this thread.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It's sad because we know Michael's mom fought to get him to finish school. And it's a real accomplishment for both of them that he did. There are so many potential lessons in Michael's story that it seems are being buried that could honestly help others, I think. Facts help people make better decisions.

I really wish I had a Mom.....you know, the type that would **ever** be there to fight hard about anything for me; let alone schooling.
Not in my instance though, not HS, not RN school, not undergrad or Grad school.

But it all made me stronger & more resilient.

Just sayin'

 

[Muffet]

Not at all, but I do take notice when people who admit to spoiling and bailing out their kids repeatedly recommend the old "bootstraps" for everyone else.

Except I specifically said we don't bail our kids out, but told him tough kitties and made him do it himself.

I also noted that he went to work and school.

You're jumping to the conclusion that I am a hypocrite, that we must have helped him pay for the car, which we didn't, not that it would matter to the point if we had.

The point was that I was glad my son got profiled, and whenever he got cited, we made him handle it on his own.

He did save up, made money since age 16, working his butt off part time and full time whenever he could. He has also excelled in school.

I don't understand why this should be so unbelievable. I find the excuses and low expectations to be both unfortunate and at the root of our problems.

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[Muffet]

The number of tickets Ferguson issues, and the number of arrest warrants the scofflaws of Ferguson accumulate, have nothing to do with the shooting of MB.

I agree 100%, and have been saying it from the start, but since the news has been all over reports of these things to justify the protests, it's difficult to avoid answering them. Somewhere.

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[katydid23]

Apparently Ferguson issues over 30,000 despite only having 20,000+ residents.

So? I bet many peeps get multiple warrants. And many warrants are written for people who do not live there anymore, or did not really live there to begin with. :cow:

 

[human]

That's a whole lot of assuming with the 'we' and 'us'

This forum is filled with hundreds of members that have gone through the scenarios you listed above and by the grace of personal choices and lots of hard work have risen above.

Do you really believe we have no say in our destiny? That it is all left up to luck?

Over thirty years working with hundreds of poor families has given me insight, I feel.

Yes, it is luck to start with, isn't it?

Where you are born. Who your parents are . What school you go to. If your parents stay alive and married. If your parents maintain a decent standard of living. If you keep your health. If your parents keep their health. If you don't get in a car accident. If your siblings remain healthy while you are a child.
If you don't develop severe mental illness. If you are not raped. If your school does not have a shooter. So many things which have absolutely nothing that you have control over. Luck.

People can overcome a lot if they are lucky. Because just when things look good, they can get hit with a heart attack or get hit by a car. Luck.

 

[nothingnew]

A profile is all about a difference in standards. Police rarely stop someone going 4 mph over the speed limit, but if you fit the profile you will get stopped. Police rarely search stopped cars for drugs, but if you fit the profile count on spending a extra hour standing on the side of the road while they paw through your stuff. The air freshener or graduation tassel hanging on you mirror turns into a ticket for obstructed vision ticket when you fit the profile. A burned out taillight that normally merits a polite stop to inform the driver turns into a defective vehicle ticket.

Sorry but those "polite" stops cost money too. I was pulled over by CHP in town so he could inform me my month registration sticker was too faded to see. He told me I wasn't doing anything wrong but.....Anyway I think it was $25 for court fees, $10 to the city police when I took it to station to get a signature (it would have been free at sheriff station but I like giving money to our locals!) and the tag from DMV was free and they mailed it right out. I never would of thought of checking the month tag but now I know! Win/win for everybody. I still smile and wave when I see the guy.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Over thirty years working with hundreds of poor families has given me insight, I feel.

Yes, it is luck to start with, isn't it?



Where you are born. Who your parents are . What school you go to. If your parents stay alive and married. If your parents maintain a decent standard of living. If you keep your health. If your parents keep their health. If you don't get in a car accident. If your siblings remain healthy while you are a child.
If you don't develop severe mental illness. If you are not raped. If your school does not have a shooter. So many things which have absolutely nothing that you have control over. Luck.

People can overcome a lot if they are lucky. Because just when things look good, they can get hit with a heart attack or get hit by a car. Luck.

The harder I work, the luckier I get

 

[Lovejac]

Except I specifically said we don't bail our kids out, but told him tough kitties and made him do it himself.

I also noted that he went to work and school.

You're jumping to the conclusion that I am a hypocrite, that we must have helped him pay for the car, which we didn't, not that it would matter to the point if we had.

The point was that I was glad my son got profiled, and whenever he got cited, we made him handle it on his own.

He did save up, made money since age 16, working his butt off part time and full time whenever he could. He has also excelled in school.

I don't understand why this should be so unbelievable. I find the excuses and low expectations to be both unfortunate and at the root of our problems.

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You don't have to explain yourself to anyone, nor do you have to feel bad for having money.

It's not unbelievable to people who have done what your son managed to do. Work hard and save up money.

Kudos to you for teaching your son the value of hard work :blowkiss:

 

[katydid23]

Not at all, but I do take notice when people who admit to spoiling and bailing out their kids repeatedly recommend the old "bootstraps" for everyone else.

Any links to people who admitted to bailing their kids out? I haven't seen any. I said my son had to pay his own speeding ticket. He had a payment plan and worked at a restaurant to pay it off. Muffett said her kid paid his own way too. The only person I went and paid for was my husband because it WAS HIS MONEY. And I mentioned going to traffic court with my daughter, but I never said I paid for her ticket, because I didnt.

So where are all of these people here bailing out their kids and recommending bootstraps to others?

 

[CHERIE.T]

Just saw this on my FB. Dropping in and posting to ask the great minds here if I'm crazy or mean for just :facepalm:

IMO, there seems to be a pervasive line of thought that enforcing laws is mean and that non-violent offenses don't cause other people harm or loss of $

I don't think it is ever healthy to teach kids or adults that weak excuses are a ticket out of personal responsibility. If anything, it perpetuates low expectations and self esteem. IMO

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da...ant_amnesty_for_nonviolent_bench_warrants.php

(Would this be in addition to a yearly amnesty already in place? I'm confused.)


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I find this line of thought sadly prevelant...unfortunately this is
what some parents teach their kids.

 

[sonjay]

If you've read about the issue- it has everything to do with the protests, which is the subject of this thread.

If that's the case, then I don't understand why they want OW dead. I thought they were protesting the senseless and unjustified murder of an innocent <mod snip> in cold blood in broad daylight.... you know, "executed," and "gunned down in the street like a dog." When did it become a protest about traffic tickets? Was all that looting and rioting really about traffic tickets?

Edited to add: Sorry, I didn't realize that the words I used there were breaking the rules. But I do want to make it clear that I did not use the n-word or any other epithets up there where the <mod snip> is.

 

[katydid23]

Over thirty years working with hundreds of poor families has given me insight, I feel.

Yes, it is luck to start with, isn't it?

Where you are born. Who your parents are . What school you go to. If your parents stay alive and married. If your parents maintain a decent standard of living. If you keep your health. If your parents keep their health. If you don't get in a car accident. If your siblings remain healthy while you are a child.
If you don't develop severe mental illness. If you are not raped. If your school does not have a shooter. So many things which have absolutely nothing that you have control over. Luck.

People can overcome a lot if they are lucky. Because just when things look good, they can get hit with a heart attack or get hit by a car. Luck.

EVERYONE has their own cross to bear. And it is interesting because I have been around many rich people because of my husbands job. And ALL of the rich people that have made it on their own, fit the list you posted. Many had dysfunctional families, horrible tragedies, etc. But guess what--they rose above it. They used it as motivation.

If you know the cops are going to check your car, keep it clean. No drugs, no weapons, no beer bottles, and off you go. If you cant afford a speeding ticket-dont speed.

Like I said, I was NOT lucky. Far from it. I overcame a lot to be where I ended up today. As said above, " the harder I worked, the LUCKIER I became." :wink:

 

[Truthy]

Except I specifically said we don't bail our kids out, but told him tough kitties and made him do it himself.

I also noted that he went to work and school.

You're jumping to the conclusion that I am a hypocrite, that we must have helped him pay for the car, which we didn't, not that it would matter to the point if we had.

The point was that I was glad my son got profiled, and whenever he got cited, we made him handle it on his own.

He did save up, made money since age 16, working his butt off part time and full time whenever he could. He has also excelled in school.

I don't understand why this should be so unbelievable. I find the excuses and low expectations to be both unfortunate and at the root of our problems.

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That's awesome! But yeah, I have seen a few admitting to spoil their kids, give them jobs they don't want to do, and extra chances they blow, etc.... and they fail to realize not everyone has anything remotely like a safety net, or second chance. When we talk about poverty 20-30 years ago, well it's nothing like today. A sizable part of our population is a pay check away from disaster these days. A parking ticket for them is a crises, because the rent won't get paid. No offence, just reality.

 

[Muffet]

If that's the case, then I don't understand why they want OW dead. I thought they were protesting the senseless and unjustified murder of an innocent <mod snip> in cold blood in broad daylight.... you know, "executed," and "gunned down in the street like a dog." When did it become a protest about traffic tickets? Was all that looting and rioting really about traffic tickets?

Yep. From the beginning, protesters and commentators everywhere have repeatedly used past and current grievances inflicted by people who are not Officer Wilson to justify their lynch-mobbish behavior and demands for Officer Wilson's head.

Doesn't comport with claims to care about civil rights and fairness in the Justice system.

Now that the DOJ investigation and reasons for it are all over the news, it's even harder to keep the two separate, until we get another thread to do so.



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[katydid23]

That's awesome! But yeah, I have seen a few admitting to spoil their kids, give them jobs they don't want to do, and extra chances they blow, etc.... and they fail to realize not everyone has anything remotely like a safety net, or second chance. When we talk about poverty 20-30 years ago, well it's nothing like today. A sizable part of our population is a pay check away from disaster these days. A parking ticket for them is a crises, because the rent won't get paid. No offence, just reality.

A parking ticket means the rent wont get paid?