MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[DebinGA]

I speculated a few threads ago that he likely had issues with authority. Given his tactics with store owner and cop, any coach was just someone else trying to get Mike to observe the rules, in my opinion.

I've made the authority issues point too, noting the oddity of his changing high schools 4 times ... and remaining at Normandy when far better, expense-paid, out-of-district options became available.

NYT: "In the ninth grade at McCluer High School in Florissant, Mr. Brown was accused of stealing an iPod. His mother said she went to the school, eventually showing a receipt to prove the iPod was his. He left McCluer and went to two other high schools before going to Normandy for most of his final two years."

From my experience, many high schools ban such devices, and almost all ban their use during class (i.e. the teacher takes the device and holds it "hostage" until a parent comes in to retrieve it). The fact that the school admin. had MB's iPod, stolen or not, indicates to me he'd broken the rule of use.

 

[sonjay]

Within two days of his death ....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cbafa12e-7305-5fd7-8e0e-3139f472d130.html

Thank you. It was used earlier than I thought, then, and prior to the release of the video. But there was still no specific mention of his size, and I don't believe that the phrase really grew legs until after the video, though.

 

[DebinGA]

Im in my early 30s I do not have a drivers license. I should get one now though I dread it. (Texas drivers are nuts.) Reason I do not have one growing up I lived in New Orleans we had buses we could take everywhere we wanted to go. Even after we moved to an area without many bus routes it was still not necessary to have a license. Within walking distance I had my job, 2 grocery stores, restaurants, drug store, mall, and movies. With the bus I could have gotten to Walmart, k mart,a park, 2 other malls, more restaurants. The only reason I'm thinking of getting a drivers license now is b/c my kids are older and wanting to get into more things and I've never seen a bus since living out here.

Thanks for that response. I can see how you wouldn't normally need a driver's license. I'm naturally pessimistic though, expecting an emergency/catastrophe any minute, and unwilling to wait for the #13 bus to finally roll around. Even without a car, I'd want to be legally able to drive a borrowed one.

 

[Footwarrior]

Not if it was expired. Been there, done that.

An expired license is often considered a valid ID and proof of date of birth for certain purposes. Most notably getting a new ID. State rules on valid IDs for drinking and tobacco tend to be written with the assumption the clerk or bar bouncer can't do basic math. Far too often, that is a valid assumption.

 

[Klood-N]

Yes, possibly a grazing wound. Or an injury from the slide. With Parks describing it as a "big gash," it was definitely not a straight-in entry wound. If that wound was received during the assault at the car, that is.

"GRACE: So it`s not -- are you telling me it`s not a gunshot?

D. PARKS: Now, how that`s -- no, it is a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet, but it`s a rather large gash in his hand."
​

"It was a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet." What does that even mean? It's difficult to parse what Parks meant there. I don't know if he unintentionally failed to convey what he really meant, or if it was deliberate obfuscation. All I can tell is that, according to Parks, the wound on the hand was either a wound caused by the gun, or a gunshot wound caused by a bullet. If it was caused by the gun, it had to have happened during the assault in the car. If it was caused by a bullet, then it had to be a grazing wound to cause a "big gash."

Hmmm..... I wonder if an up-close grazing wound, where the bullet grazes the skin at a very oblique angle, causes the same stippling on the skin that a regular up-close gunshot wound causes? If it doesn't, then that could have been an up-close shot in the car, and there would be no stippling. Any experts on stippling here?

I think it was something Parks wanted to talk around, not about. Of course, when he does that, it just paints a bullseye on the information for those of us digging for the truth.

Meaning, I think they really wanted to get their own preliminary autopsy results out there as fast as possible so they could spin them and highlight what they wanted to, but I do not think he wanted to address or draw attention to the hand wound. It doesn't go with the narrative.

 

[DebinGA]

Excellent point about that phrase.

On the bold, we know Michael did that on purpose. I'm doubting the timid storyline.

Mr. Brown tended to use his size to scare away potential trouble, Mr. Lewis said. “He’ll swell up like, ‘I’m mad,’ and you’ll back off,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=1

That "swelling up" and "I'm mad" face was on full display as MB turned back from the door and menaced the employee in the store video.

 

[DebinGA]

I think it was something Parks wanted to talk around, not about. Of course, when he does that, it just paints a bullseye on the information for those of us digging for the truth.

As does each time Parks says, "Well, let me just say this ..."

 

[Klood-N]

That "swelling up" and "I'm mad" face was on full display as MB turned back from the door and menaced the employee in the store video.

Very true. I'm sure he was very scared. This quote says so much.

The convenience store where the robbery took place was boarded up, but open for business on Friday. A store manager, who declined to give his name, said he fears for his life and pleaded with reporters not to suggest that he called police.

“It’s very dangerous,” he said. “They kill us if they think we are responsible. People don’t understand that.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8f5bc0-2588-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

 

[krimekat]

Good point! Apparently he did play.

As a freshman, he was in Junior ROTC. His sophomore year he played football. During his junior year, he attended McCluer High School in the neighboring Ferguson-Florissant district before returning his senior year to Normandy. There, he spent time in a credit recovery program so he could graduate in May.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cbafa12e-7305-5fd7-8e0e-3139f472d130.html

the Post-Dispatch rarely gets it correct & it's local!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rown-high-school-graduation-article-1.1913185

August 22, 2014


Newly released video obtained by ABC News shows the 18-year-old in his graduation processional, ready to walk across the stage and claim his high school diploma.

The footage, featuring the 6-foot-4-inch teenager clad in a green cap and gown, was taken in early August when Brown graduated from Normandy High School in St. Louis.

 

[katydid23]

I speculated a few threads ago that he likely had issues with authority. Given his tactics with store owner and cop, any coach was just someone else trying to get Mike to observe the rules, in my opinion.

MB would have a hard time passing the drug tests as well. Our high schools in California require clean drug tests to play sports, but I am not sure about Missourri.

 

[Klood-N]

the Post-Dispatch rarely gets it correct & it's local!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rown-high-school-graduation-article-1.1913185

August 22, 2014


Newly released video obtained by ABC News shows the 18-year-old in his graduation processional, ready to walk across the stage and claim his high school diploma.

The footage, featuring the 6-foot-4-inch teenager clad in a green cap and gown, was taken in early August when Brown graduated from Normandy High School in St. Louis.

Yes, the graduation date is another piece of information that's been misreported.

 

[Trident]

Very true. I'm sure he was very scared. This quote says so much.

The convenience store where the robbery took place was boarded up, but open for business on Friday. A store manager, who declined to give his name, said he fears for his life and pleaded with reporters not to suggest that he called police.

“It’s very dangerous,” he said. “They kill us if they think we are responsible. People don’t understand that.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8f5bc0-2588-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

I understand that and I wish everyone else would. From what I've seen and heard about certain parts/people of Ferguson, it was nothing but a crime-ridden hellhole ruled by thugs with no morals, responsibility, and supported by tax dollars. The good people either moved out of there or lived in fear.

I cannot understand what poverty means to these people, or any of us. I've been poor, many of us have been, but we never had the feds come in to stand up for the crimes we did, petty or otherwise. I never got a pass on tickets, never got much of anything but what I could EARN with my own two hands.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick to death of the double standard and the intervention of OUR supposed department of justice. When there is justice for ALL, then we can talk.

My opinion only

 

[sonjay]

I think it was something Parks wanted to talk around, not about.

I think so, too. That's why it surprised me when Parks referred to it as "a big gash." Because that does draw attention to it. In that interview that you excerpted, Parks uses the phrase "big gash" three times, and "rather large gash" once, and also describes it as "it's pretty big and it's pretty open." Then he throws it off to "the experts" to explain how it happened.

 

[Klood-N]

I think so, too. That's why it surprised me when Parks referred to it as "a big gash." Because that does draw attention to it. In that interview that you excerpted, Parks uses the phrase "big gash" three times, and "rather large gash" once, and also describes it as "it's pretty big and it's pretty open." Then he throws it off to "the experts" to explain how it happened.

True!

I want to see Megyn Kelly get him back in the hot seat, and pointedly ask, in light of the livery driver's statement, why they acted unaware that LE was not responsible for the delay in removing Michael from the scene; that it was in fact the same angry mobs that later rioted in part due to the attorneys' false, inflammatory rhetoric.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I understand that and I wish everyone else would. From what I've seen and heard about certain parts/people of Ferguson, it was nothing but a crime-ridden hellhole ruled by thugs with no morals, responsibility, and supported by tax dollars. The good people either moved out of there or lived in fear.

I cannot understand what poverty means to these people, or any of us. I've been poor, many of us have been, but we never had the feds come in to stand up for the crimes we did, petty or otherwise. I never got a pass on tickets, never got much of anything but what I could EARN with my own two hands.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick to death of the double standard and the intervention of OUR supposed department of justice. When there is justice for ALL, then we can talk.

My opinion only

I think there is a big difference in being poor and perpetual poverty. It is a different mind set. If you have generations of people living in poverty that is different than being poor at a time in your life. I have been poor, Many years ago when I moved out of my parents affluent neighborhood and on my own. It was hard, But that is not poverty. That is just really tight and poor living for a time.

I think that unless you live in a constant state of poverty, You can not understand the impact it has on your life. The smallness of how life feels.
The way you think about money and purpose. JMO

As for the Feds, I am glad they are here. I think that the way the dept handled this along with the mayor and other officials, The way some officers felt it was fine to point loaded guns at protesters not causing any trouble, is a huge problem. They are supposed to be there to help the people not just treat everyone as a trouble maker. I think this dept should be looked into.

If I got a ticket, I would not expect them to come and investigate unless I ended up dead.

 

[DebinGA]

Just checked the Walmart site re hiring. After surviving an initial interview, step 2 is passing drug/"background" tests. It's hard to feel sorry for unemployed, black or white, poor-not poor, who sabotage themselves by using drugs or getting "shoplifting" et al charges. There are steps available iirc to have a previous arrest record expunged/poofed with a subsequent history of law abiding behavior.

 

[Klood-N]

Perhaps, but some teens don't realize the importance and responsibility that comes with rite of passage docs like DL and diplomas. He lived with grandma, she may not have had a car. Perhaps he missed the test or didn't pass. I knew kids in a predominantly white HS who didn't have a license for many of the reasons mentioned. Even transported a few in my day.

I'm not sure where Michael lived or for how long. I'm not sure if it's part of a crumbling narrative, poor reporting, or both since it seems both are present in this case, but there have been several versions.
It's strange. I wonder if there were any conditions about living arrangements due to criminal charges against him or others, or social services involvement, or subsidized housing restrictions or benefits that are making it so hard for a simple truth to be told. It almost sounds like he just couch surfed between family and friends. He was eighteen, a young man, so he could live wherever he chose, but the inability to pin that down seems odd.

1) He was visiting grandma, but didn't live there

"They told me how many times my son was shot. Eight," said McSpadden. She said he was visiting his grandmother, who lives in the complex, and was returning from the store.
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crim...olice-news-conference-michael-brown/13860601/

“He was a good kid. He didn’t live around here,” said Desuirea Harris, grandmother of the victim. “He came to visit me and they did that to him for no reason.”
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Heavy-police-presence--270609091.html


2) He lived with grandma

They never married, and Brown, who has two sisters and a brother, bounced between the homes his parents shared with their respective spouses. When his mother moved out of the school district, according to friends, Brown began living with his grandmother in the Canfield Green apartment complex.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html


Livingston walked Daily RFT down Canfield to the low-slung apartment buildings where Brown was living with his grandmother. In the dimly lit front room, the family spoke fondly of the teenager. Some of them sat on the couch that he used as his bed. They say he slept like a rock on it, despite his big frame.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/mike_brown_shooting_ferguson_family.php

Good boy in a bad 'hood: Mike Mike, as the family called him (pictured with brother Andre, now 7 and sister Deja, now 14) had won a place at college and was told by his mother to 'do what he wanted this summer' as a reward. He chose to stay at his grandmother's house where the aspiring rapper had a makeshift studio
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

3) Michael lived with his two grandmothers, mother, and father in their respective homes?

Growing up, he lived under one roof with his parents, paternal grandparents and, later, a younger sister.

After his parents split up, he stayed with his mother though he remained close to all of his family, who lived near one another in north St. Louis County.

When his mother moved out of the Normandy District, he moved in with his paternal grandmother so he could remain at that school. But he continued to alternate between his parents and maternal grandmother.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=0


4) Michael lived with friends

Brown stayed at Canfield with friends and, earlier this year, with his grandmother at the adjacent Northwinds apartments.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-michael-brown-20140817-story.html


I honestly feel for him. It's hard to grow up with instability, if that's the case. Four different high schools tells a story, though.

 

[sonjay]

As for the Feds, I am glad they are here. I think that the way the dept handled this along with the mayor and other officials, The way some officers felt it was fine to point loaded guns at protesters not causing any trouble, is a huge problem. They are supposed to be there to help the people not just treat everyone as a trouble maker. I think this dept should be looked into.

I used to care about that, too. Now, I want them to stop lying about the shooting and stop calling for OW's death before I'm willing to care again about those things. MB was a Gentle Giant. DJ and MB were just walking home from the store when the cop stopped and grabbed the Gentle Giant and started pulling him into the car. MB was profiled. He was shot in the back while on his knees surrendering with his hands up. His body was left lying uncovered for hours. He was executed, murdered, and "gunned down in the street like a dog." If OW isn't arrested, charged, convicted and put to death, they will make the earlier protests look like child's play.

They need to stop with the lies, the rioting, and the inflammatory rhetoric. And the death threats. That has to come first, before I can even begin to care about the rest.

 

[reedus23]

So I take it nothing new? Same stuff being rehashed?

 

[Apollo]

So I take it nothing new? Same stuff being rehashed?

I thinks there's a Press Conference today. Maybe there will be something new after that. Anyone know what time?