MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[popsicle]

There was a public event yesterday re the highway shutdown tomorrow, but I don't know if questions were taken. It's scheduled for tomorrow at 3:00 p.m., and activist/attorney Ed Vickers provided details of where to meet-up. Vickers is on staff of the local Ferguson Rep Jamillah Nasheed, who stands behind her man despite his recent arrest:

http://fox2now.com/2014/02/18/missouri-senator-nasheeds-staffer-charged-for-marijuana-possession/

My office has the utmost respect for the law and those who enforce it.
I expect this matter to play itself out in a court of law and not through the media.

um okay

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I used to care about that, too. Now, I want them to stop lying about the shooting and stop calling for OW's death before I'm willing to care again about those things. MB was a Gentle Giant. DJ and MB were just walking home from the store when the cop stopped and grabbed the Gentle Giant and started pulling him into the car. MB was profiled. He was shot in the back while on his knees surrendering with his hands up. His body was left lying uncovered for hours. He was executed, murdered, and "gunned down in the street like a dog." If OW isn't arrested, charged, convicted and put to death, they will make the earlier protests look like child's play.

They need to stop with the lies, the rioting, and the inflammatory rhetoric. And the death threats. That has to come first, before I can even begin to care about the rest.

They are not all rioting. They are not all wanting OW dead. They are not all horrible. I don't really like the term they. I don't like grouping people together as one unit. There are good people and bad people there. There are people who want justice and people who want revenge, however there is no they. To lump everyone together is obtuse IMO

 

[katydid23]

About the press conference, held today by the parents, flanked by Shahid: Was this picture meant to be seen by the Grand Jurors? Are they trying to intimidate them?

 

[katydid23]

They are not all rioting. They are not all wanting OW dead. They are not all horrible. I don't really like the term they. I don't like grouping people together as one unit. There are good people and bad people there. There are people who want justice and people who want revenge, however there is no they. To lump everyone together is obtuse IMO

PROTESTORS purposely come together AS A GROUP, to create leverage. The purpose of a group protest is to meld together. So I think the term "they' is quite applicable. jmo

 

[reedus23]

They are not all rioting. They are not all wanting OW dead. They are not all horrible. I don't really like the term they. I don't like grouping people together as one unit. There are good people and bad people there. There are people who want justice and people who want revenge, however there is no they. To lump everyone together is obtuse IMO

You will be told not all cops should be lumped together either. Pretty much agree on all counts.

 

[popsicle]

Organizers now call for protestors to gather at 3 p.m. Wednesday, September 10 in the Metro public parking lot at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Hanley Road. After a rally, protestors plan to block traffic at 4:30 p.m., symbolizing the four and a half hours that Michael Brown’s lifeless body was left lying on Canfield Drive after Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot him at least six times and killed him.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/political_eye/article_719907d2-33de-11e4-96bc-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Klood-N]

I had started a list awhile ago of charges Michael might have faced. I've seen others post some too. Maybe a running list would help?

Here were some I considered:

Strong arm robbery (2nd degree robbery) - Class B felony
Assault
Assault on LE
Disorderly conduct
Resisting or interfering with arrest - Class D Felony. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5750000150.htm


Obstructing a police officer
Failure to follow a lawful order (2x don't walk on road, which blocked traffic; freeze)
Attempted murder if his hand caused gun to fire

*If* he had any charges pending but not yet adjudicated, those could factor in.

If he had a significant juvenile record and was charged with a felony, it could've come in to play.

If he was gang affiliated, that can be considered.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ld-be-admissible-at-a-federal-criminal-trial/

It's also unlawful for a person who's neither driving or in an vehicle to disobey an officer's order to stop, such as by running away on foot or some other means.
http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/criminal-law-crime-definition-faqs.html


I think these are important and could go to Michael's state of mind and why he fought so hard to avoid apprehension, particularly if he was on probation, had a deferred adjudication or sentence, had pending charges or was part of a diversion program with conditions.

 

[MyBelle]

Look it's a non-issue to me because it's all hypothetical and irrelevant because MB is dead and he's never going to be charged much less sentenced but suffice it to say you posted the statute for ARMED CRIMINAL ACTION which involves the use of a weapon, not second degree robbery which some refer to as strong armed robbery. As far as I know, MB didn't have any weapons on him during the "robbery".

Regardless, I'm moving on.

You asked for the link and I provided it that proves Mr. Brown would NOT have received a suspended sentence as you claimed nor would it be wiped from his record. A strong-arm robbery DOES involve a use of a weapon. The security video DID capture Mr. Brown physically assaulting and intimidating the store clerk.

I think we all should stick to the facts of this case and not invent our own version of facts.

JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ida-man-refused-drop-weapon-outside-home.html

OK-I know I'm not supposed to post unrelated articles, but am doing so to illustrate a point and ask a question. First of all, this man was armed with a gun, so it is definitely different than MB's situation, so I'm not trying to compare or contrast the 2 incidents.

But my question is this: the man has been shot and was obviously fatally wounded (he apparently died later at the hospital) but they handcuffed him. This isn't the first time I have seen this procedure. I was wondering if it is procedure to handcuff a suspect once they are wounded or even dead. I find it shocking to see, myself, and to me it somewhat illustrates the point that what we see may be shocking, but perhaps there are procedures in place and reasons for those procedures that the general public is not aware of.

In the story I have linked, there are several comments referencing stun guns, etc...for example....

 

[Klood-N]

Organizers now call for protestors to gather at 3 p.m. Wednesday, September 10 in the Metro public parking lot at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Hanley Road. After a rally, protestors plan to block traffic at 4:30 p.m., symbolizing the four and a half hours that Michael Brown’s lifeless body was left lying on Canfield Drive after Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot him at least six times and killed him.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/political_eye/article_719907d2-33de-11e4-96bc-001a4bcf887a.html

Still?! Even after the jig is up, ie the livery driver information shows they both know and are the reason he lay there that long? Manufactured crisis??

 

[sonjay]

As for the incident at the store alone, first, he's not guilty of anything. For everyone that is so adamant about the "innocent until proven guilty" principles for OW I find it amusing that the same principles are discarded when it comes to MB. Yes, we've seen the video and yes, I wouldn't be surprised that some sort of charges would have/could have been brought, but that doesn't change the fact that we're throwing around legal terms as if he were convicted of anything. He hasn't.

Well, yes, he was certainly guilty of strong-arm robbery. He was not convicted in a court of law (because he's dead, natch, and so will never be convicted), but there's no doubt what we saw in that video. He did it; he was guilty of doing it.

Having said that, I understand the righteous indignation over the "robbery" and yes, it's important to the store owner, but that doesn't change the fact that this "robbery" falls somewhere in the middle of a continuum if one was rating the severity of crimes.

Well, sure, I agree with that. On a continuum, it's somewhere in the middle. It's a felony, so def. more serious than any misdemeanor, but it wasn't rape or murder. It's important because it tells us A) a lot about what kind of person MB was and how he liked to use his size and mass to get his way, and B) a lot about his state of mind that day and why he would have reacted to DW the way he did. Minimizing the seriousness of the strong-arm robbery doesn't change either of those things.

 

[TheDuchess]

Organizers now call for protestors to gather at 3 p.m. Wednesday, September 10 in the Metro public parking lot at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Hanley Road. After a rally, protestors plan to block traffic at 4:30 p.m., symbolizing the four and a half hours that Michael Brown’s lifeless body was left lying on Canfield Drive after Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot him at least six times and killed him.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/political_eye/article_719907d2-33de-11e4-96bc-001a4bcf887a.html

I just threw up in my mouth. :sick:

 

[reedus23]

I had started a list awhile ago of charges Michael might have faced. I've seen others post some too. Maybe a running list would help?

Here were some I considered:

Strong arm robbery (2nd degree robbery) - Class B felony
Assault
Assault on LE
Disorderly conduct
Resisting or interfering with arrest - Class D Felony. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5750000150.htm


Obstructing a police officer
Failure to follow a lawful order (2x don't walk on road, which blocked traffic; freeze)
Attempted murder if his hand caused gun to fire

*If* he had any charges pending but not yet adjudicated, those could factor in.

If he had a significant juvenile record and was charged with a felony, it could've come in to play.

If he was gang affiliated, that can be considered.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ld-be-admissible-at-a-federal-criminal-trial/

It's also unlawful for a person who's neither driving or in an vehicle to disobey an officer's order to stop, such as by running away on foot or some other means.
http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/criminal-law-crime-definition-faqs.html

Don't forget jaywalking or its equivalent.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

PROTESTORS purposely come together AS A GROUP, to create leverage. The purpose of a group protest is to meld together. So I think the term "they' is quite applicable. jmo

But that is not what happened. Yes there were people who decided to peacefully protest and some who did not. They were not part of the core. There were people who came from other states to make trouble.. Again not the core.
That is like saying everyone here is a trouble maker based on a posts from a few bad eggs.
Sweeping generalizations are not factual. In any case IMO.

 

[Klood-N]

Organizers now call for protestors to gather at 3 p.m. Wednesday, September 10 in the Metro public parking lot at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Hanley Road. After a rally, protestors plan to block traffic at 4:30 p.m., symbolizing the four and a half hours that Michael Brown’s lifeless body was left lying on Canfield Drive after Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot him at least six times and killed him.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/political_eye/article_719907d2-33de-11e4-96bc-001a4bcf887a.html

Check this out:

In fact, speaking of Shahid, I'd seen people pointing him out here and other places. He's clearly been very involved in this.

“We’re going to tie it down, lock it down,” Anthony Shahid, one of the lead organizers of the rally, told supporters from the stage at a park. The following week, if the coalition’s demands were not met, including that Officer Wilson be fired and arrested on charges of murder, another four-minute traffic shutdown would occur on two days instead of just one, he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/us/at-ferguson-march-call-for-labor-day-highway-protest.html?_r=0

Sounds like they are trying to hold the city hostage to get their demands met.

 

[Klood-N]

Don't forget jaywalking or its equivalent.

No, not jaywalking. I think the Chief referred to it as blocking traffic or obstructing traffic, ie creating a safety concern, but thanks.

 

[reedus23]

You asked for the link and I provided it that proves Mr. Brown would NOT have received a suspended sentence as you claimed nor would it be wiped from his record. A strong-arm robbery DOES involve a use of a weapon. The security video DID capture Mr. Brown physically assaulting and intimidating the store clerk.

I think we all should stick to the facts of this case and not invent our own version of facts.

JMO

Because you are accusing me of inventing facts.

Robbery in the first degree.

569.020. 1. A person commits the crime of robbery in the first degree when he forcibly steals property and in the course thereof he, or another participant in the crime,

(1) Causes serious physical injury to any person; or

(2) Is armed with a deadly weapon; or

(3) Uses or threatens the immediate use of a dangerous instrument against any person; or

(4) Displays or threatens the use of what appears to be a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

2. Robbery in the first degree is a class A felony.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5690000020.HTM

Robbery in the second degree.

569.030. 1. A person commits the crime of robbery in the second degree when he forcibly steals property.

2. Robbery in the second degree is a class B felony.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5690000030.HTM

As the previous poster provided...maybe 2nd degree robbery. There is no weapon involved, thus no armed criminal action.

Further words from McCulloch distinguishing between the two:

St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch gave the following definition for strong-arm robbery:

"The use of physical force in a robbery. If someone is stealing, and another person makes an attempt to stop them, and then physical force is used to complete the act that is strong-arm robbery.

It's also called 'robbery in the 2nd degree,' and there is no weapon other than physical force used.

If a weapon is used in a robbery, then the charge would be 'robbery in the 1st degree.'"

Emphasis by me.

If it puts an end to a moot issue...MB couldn't have received an SIS.

 

[SStarr33]

Check this out:

In fact, speaking of Shahid, I'd seen people pointing him out here and other places. He's clearly been very involved in this.

“We’re going to tie it down, lock it down,” Anthony Shahid, one of the lead organizers of the rally, told supporters from the stage at a park. The following week, if the coalition’s demands were not met, including that Officer Wilson be fired and arrested on charges of murder, another four-minute traffic shutdown would occur on two days instead of just one, he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/us/at-ferguson-march-call-for-labor-day-highway-protest.html?_r=0

Sounds like they are trying to hold the city hostage to get their demands met.

Shahid was there moments after the shooting, and IMO, was the one who shaped the entire narrative.

 

[Klood-N]

Organizers now call for protestors to gather at 3 p.m. Wednesday, September 10 in the Metro public parking lot at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Hanley Road. After a rally, protestors plan to block traffic at 4:30 p.m., symbolizing the four and a half hours that Michael Brown’s lifeless body was left lying on Canfield Drive after Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson shot him at least six times and killed him.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/political_eye/article_719907d2-33de-11e4-96bc-001a4bcf887a.html

“Missouri Governor Jeremiah ‘Jay’ Nixon has humiliated black leadership, locally and nationally, by rejecting all their pleas for a special prosecutor to be appointed,” organizers said in a statement.

Because they were humiliated? This is no longer about Michael, but about their egos? How sad.

 

[reedus23]

No, not jaywalking. I think the Chief referred to it as blocking traffic or obstructing traffic, ie creating a safety concern, but thanks.

Thanks. That's why I used "its equivalent" because I assumed it would have a different title.

How about RICO violations if, indeed, he is found to be a member of a gang? I don't know all the elements of a RICO violation, but could it be argued that his actions were in furtherance of a criminal enterprise?