MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #17

[sonjay]

Its not uncommon for a surrender to not be genuine. The idea of "You got me" all the while the target continues to advance.

Yes, this! I'm sure pretty much all police officers are very aware of that. Even if MB had "hands up" -- in the "universal symbol of surrender" -- the apparent fact that he continued to advance on OW means that it wasn't a true surrender. Based on the events as told by several witnesses, it appears that MB got to within just a few feet of OW -- just about close enough for a final lunge to bring down OW and grab his gun or begin pounding on him. IMO, OW was very lucky to escape with his life.

 

[Klood-N]

Aye great post Klood-N, I wanted to give some thoughts about why i discounted some of those idea's others I honestly did not consider.

-The Gun jam was discounted by me, I felt that given the amount of force used and the notion of a concussion that he wouldn't have the presence of mind to clear a jam in a Glock in the speed he would have had to do it in the pause, clearing a jam in a Glock can be a significant pain in the butt and would take a man with PoM about 1-2 seconds to clear before he got his hands back into place to prevent the automatic safey from being engaged (which involves holding the gun properly after reaching up and using the slide)

-I did not consider the bystander (tips hat) its possible.

-It seems odd he would give chase if he were firing upon a felon, if MB were moving along the street and OW was so worked over he could not hit MB< it seems odd he would elect to chase MB if thats his condition.

-The last point I agree on (in my first example) Its the time MB says "something" to OW but is still advancing, he doesn't stop, so OW resumes firing. You see this happen when folks commit "suicide by cop". Its not uncommon for a surrender to not be genuine. The idea of "You got me" all the while the target continues to advance.

I actually have a Glock and don't think the way the safety is incorporated would be an issue even though his bell got rung. Since officers have to train with their weapons usually, I think it's possible. And I believe the audio analysis showed the pause to be 2.5 seconds or so. I don't think this is likely what happened though, just used it as a possibility to show how unanalytical some supporters and media are being.

Some of the witnesses did say Wilson chased Michael at first.

Good thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if any protestors met up at the police station to begin their 'boycot' today? Convenient for LE that they meet there every day. lol

 

[katydid23]

Yes, this! I'm sure pretty much all police officers are very aware of that. Even if MB had "hands up" -- in the "universal symbol of surrender" -- the apparent fact that he continued to advance on OW means that it wasn't a true surrender. Based on the events as told by several witnesses, it appears that MB got to within just a few feet of OW -- just about close enough for a final lunge to bring down OW and grab his gun or begin pounding on him. IMO, OW was very lucky to escape with his life.

Exactly. Why would OW trust that he was surrendering after he had already been viciously attacked? Surrendering means you FREEZE, not advance towards the officer.

 

[popsicle]

Exactly. Why would OW trust that he was surrendering after he had already been viciously attacked? Surrendering means you FREEZE, not advance towards the officer.

'universal symbol of surrender' :lol:

 

[LambChop]

Just my 2 cents, but could OW have aimed for MB's arm, right chest area to stop him and when he did not stop 2-3 second delay in the shooting OW knew he had to aim for center mass? Unfortunately MB stumbled and fell into the direct line of where his chest area would have been when the last two shots were fired. We know he was moving/leaning forward because he fell forward. jmo

 

[reedus23]

Well said Sonjay... and yes, thank you Reedus for keeping us on our toes and thinking!

Thanks to you and everyone as well. I fully recognize most of my views are contrary to the majority of posters here but the fact that issues and viewpoints can be hashed out here in a civil manner is what makes WS so great.

 

[Clar]

I actually have a Glock and don't think the way the safety is incorporated would be an issue even though his bell got rung. Since officers have to train with their weapons usually, I think it's possible. And I believe the audio analysis showed the pause to be 2.5 seconds or so. I don't think this is likely what happened though, just used it as a possibility to show how unanalytical some are being.

Some of the witnesses did say Wilson chased Michael at first.

Good thoughts.

Fair enough I find that Glock jams are a pain, but your right its totally possible.

Again the witnesses, it'd be great if we could confirm who was actually telling the truth and properly remembering what they seen.

I'm really interested to hear more facts from a investigation rather then word of mouth....but then again with the way some people are being, will they believe the investigations findings...or will they claim its another conspiracy.

 

[katydid23]

'universal symbol of surrender' :lol:

It was unreal yesterday, when I was watching the livestream of the 'standoff' between the cops and the protestors. There was one very tense time when dozens of protestors advanced aggressively on the cops, who stood their ground. They were face to face.

While advancing, many of the marchers had their hands up, while angrily chanting 'We are Mike Brown' and advancing in an aggressive manner towards the police line.

It blew my mind, because it PROVED that one could have their hands up, and still be seen as very aggressive and potentially dangerous. jmo

 

[Klood-N]

Do we need to add a "Freeze means freeze, not advance" campaign to the "no means no" one? Even the crowds seem to think the cops are lying when they warn them.

 

[Clar]

Just my 2 cents, but could OW have aimed for MB's arm, right chest area to stop him and when he did not stop 2-3 second delay in the shooting OW knew he had to aim for center mass? Unfortunately MB stumbled and fell into the direct line of where his chest area would have been when the last two shots were fired. We know he was moving/leaning forward because he fell forward. jmo

The arm shots I'm not sure of how they were inflicted, again I would have to know details on where and when MB was at the time he was actually shot. I do however 100% believe that the last 2 shots were to his face and head, and given where they were that he was falling when they were inflicted (most likely because he just got shot in the chest)

 

[SStarr33]

The other thing to keep in mind in these scenarios is that it is likely that DW has no freaking idea where DJ is (maybe it was mentioned in all of the great posts above, but I am skimming because I am supposed to be working right now :biggrin

Can you imagine thinking about your six when you are dealing with MB?

 

[MyBelle]

My point is you use the term extortion loosely. Your right to do so. My right to say I disagree with that use of the word. I find it is used for dramatic effect to try to make a point. If all the rhetoric were stripped away, I'd bet we both actually agree on the underlying issue, namely that the manner in which their "demands" were presented is not a fashion that is likely to get results.

I didn't use the term loosely. YOU responded to my post where I used it. Feel free to disagree with my opinion but stop derailing by twisting and misrepresenting it. Thanks.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]FERGUSON POLICE PROTEST[/h]http://fergusonevents.org/wp/events/daily-protest-at-ferguson-police-station-2014-09-11/

 

[Clar]

Thanks to you and everyone as well. I fully recognize most of my views are contrary to the majority of posters here but the fact that issues and viewpoints can be hashed out here in a civil manner is what makes WS so great.

For what its worth Reedus, I like your PoV it helps keep out the group think and I do like some of your idea's

 

[Klood-N]

Just my 2 cents, but could OW have aimed for MB's arm, right chest area to stop him and when he did not stop 2-3 second delay in the shooting OW knew he had to aim for center mass? Unfortunately MB stumbled and fell into the direct line of where his chest area would have been when the last two shots were fired. We know he was moving/leaning forward because he fell forward. jmo

Re: BBM to be clear, absolutely, IMO. That's what I pictured with how fast that final sequence of shots were. You can't aim for the top of the head on a 6'4" man when you're shorter than him and he's standing. To add into the mix, he was also "sagging" in the pictures on the street, so he could've run towards Darren and started to stumble. Saw a kinda funny YouTube of that a few days ago (sagger trying to chase someone, getting tangled up in his droopy drawers, tripping and falling).

(Hi, btw. Thank you for keeping this thread, your light redirecting hand, and information.)

 

[katydid23]

[h=1]FERGUSON POLICE PROTEST[/h]http://fergusonevents.org/wp/events/daily-protest-at-ferguson-police-station-2014-09-11/

So they plan to set up camp with their folding chairs all day, every day, in a pking lot across from the police station? OK. Imagine what they could do with that same amount of time and energy, if it were focused on something productive?

 

[Klood-N]

Fair enough I find that Glock jams are a pain, but your right its totally possible.

Again the witnesses, it'd be great if we could confirm who was actually telling the truth and properly remembering what they seen.

I'm really interested to hear more facts from a investigation rather then word of mouth....but then again with the way some people are being, will they believe the investigations findings...or will they claim its another conspiracy.

Agree, all jams are a pain and have to be terrifying in a life and death moment.

 

[Sonya610]

BOYCOTT THE BUSINESS NOT AA OWNED #Ferguson

LOL....not sure that will be necessarily. I do predict the Targets and major grocery store chains will think about closing.

But hey corner store quiki marts are great places for groceries and such, just expect to pay an extra premium for the bullet proof glass in front of the register and the bars on the windows.

 

[Trident]

The arm shots I'm not sure of how they were inflicted, again I would have to know details on where and when MB was at the time he was actually shot. I do however 100% believe that the last 2 shots were to his face and head, and given where they were that he was falling when they were inflicted (most likely because he just got shot in the chest)

We have arm shots, we have a chest wound, a head shots. Now, where are the blood patterns on the pavement? Have we heard anything about this? Surely there was blood.