MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #18

[DebinGA]

If you are going to put up a link to a site other than what we know for sure is MSM you need to goggle it first and check if it is political, otherwise it will be taken down. It is very easy to check the site out first before posting it.

Thanks, Lambchop

But we can give the name of a website and describe the info available there?

 

[Sonya610]

If the person's in question were of Italian lineage, one would call it the mafia and call in ATF, FBI, OC, etc. Why is this method treated like it is the enforcers fault?

Sorry I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[reedus23]

But I was not talking about some people. I was talking about MB who had a mother and father who he could have lived with. And MB's grandmother had a son she could live with. I would never, ever let my Mom live in an environment that was in such a high crime area. Options are available to keep crime from neighborhoods. Low income should never be equal to high crime. jmo

Just curious more than anything, but do we know where the others live that she could have lived with? I get what you're saying, I just don't know what any options were. I could be wrong, but I doubt she had the option of living in Chesterfield or Crestwood or Ballwin or places like that.

 

[popsicle]

"The fact that the c-store was looted right AFTER the police released the store's location says a lot. Anyone that was paying any attention would KNOW the store would be looted! The owner is darn lucky he didn't get killed.They just burned down the QT a few nights earlier, yet the authorities did NOT provide police protection to that store owner after releasing the location AND the video?

I am still amazed that they did that. "

If the person's in question were of Italian lineage, one would call it the mafia and call in ATF, FBI, OC, etc. Why is this method treated like it is the enforcers fault?

Not a whole lot LE could have done imo but yes, everyone here knew what was going to happen after that info was released.

 

[Clar]

I would have no problem with a citizen review board that maybe works in concert with internal affairs or whatever department is charged with investigating allegations of excessive force/abuse of authority. Whether it is well founded or not, the perception is that when an officer does wrong, others will circle the wagons to protect that officer from outsiders, even if they too believe he did wrong. That perception may be completely unfounded and I don't intend to start a debate over whether there is merit to it or not, but I think there is certainly a segment of society that views it this way. To me, those are concerns over transparency and accountability and a citizen review board that possibly works in concert with an internal affairs investigation could address those issues. My personal belief is that in a majority of the cases, you get the same result or outcome but it will place more confidence in those reviews.

I know some question for the need as that is the purpose of a grand jury, and while that is true with regard to whether or not to refer a case for criminal charges, I think the scope of such a review can be/should be broader than simply determining if criminal charges are warranted. Other issues, such as should any internal action be taken (fire? suspend w/pay? suspend w/o pay? reprimand? no action at all?) can also be addressed. As to this specific case...such a review board would obviously play little or no role in determining if criminal charges should be brought but not every case is referred to the prosecuting attorney's office so quickly.

The problem that arises however is that since these people don't seem to trust any authority (such as LE) why would they trust a review board when it disagree's with their notions?

 

[TheDuchess]

It is a common greeting among many Muslims, not just NOI. FYI Nation of Islam followers are NOT recognized as Muslim by the rest of the Islamic world.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't trying to illustrate that Shaheed seems to be aligning himself with them lately...by the way....speaking of NOI, has anyone heard from Louis Farakhan in all of this? I know he said this:

http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/08/...ks-on-the-mike-brownferguson-situation-watch/

but he's been relatively quiet in all of this no?

 

[Sonya610]

Not a whole lot LE could have done imo but yes, everyone here knew what was going to happen after that info was released.

They could have put an officer or two inside the store (outside may have attracted too much attention).

It would also have been WISE to protect the store so other witnesses would not be afraid to come forward (but maybe that was the point? a subtle form of witness intimidation?).

 

[reedus23]

according to Ferguson's Code of Ordinances all council members must retain a residence in Ferguson, including the Mayor

3.2.2 Eligibility

All council members and the mayor shall be qualified voters of the city. The council members elected by wards shall be residents of the wards from which they are elected during their entire term of office. No person shall qualify as a candidate for Mayor or Council member who has been convicted of or found guilty of or pled guilty to a felony under the laws of this state or of the United States.

Thanks for that. I was wondering because another poster earlier had said the mayor doesn't live in Ferguson.

 

[LambChop]

But we can give the name of a website and describe the info available there?

I think if the information directly relates to the case and is not political in nature, then I would say it is okay to post it and state that the article cannot be linked because it is on a political website. We can surely all use goggle to find this information. If it is a problem we will deal with it at that time. Not sure why MSM is dropping the ball on some of this information that appears to be valid. You all know this case is different and the truth is what we are after.

 

[LambChop]

They could have put an officer or two inside the store (outside may have attracted too much attention).

It would also have been WISE to protect the store so other witnesses would not be afraid to come forward (but maybe that was the point? a subtle form of witness intimidation?).

Are we talking about the store where MB took the cigars? It appears that store owner did not want the police involved and stated as much because of his fear of retaliation. So the last thing the store owner may have wanted was a police presence anywhere near his store giving the appearance that he was siding with LE. That is just my opinion but if people in the community were permitted to run a tab and owed him money he had a lot to lose.

 

[reedus23]

There's always the question of who will watch the watchers. I do believe there are many cops who get away with outright crimes and horrid treatment of citizens. I always scoff when a PD conducts an investigation of itself and concludes there was no wrongdoing. I have no faith in that process whatsoever.

One of the arguments against a CRB is that non-LE citizens don't understand the specific legal duties, rights, training, and obligations of LE. There's some validity to that argument as well.

I wish I had a magical solution. I don't.

I agree. There is no magical solution. But contrary to some people's beliefs, there smart people, even in Ferguson. As part of becoming a member of any such board, they can be trained and educated on what is permissible and what is not permissible from the LE point of view. I would never suggest that average citizens be thrown onto a board such as this blindly.

 

[K_Z]

Normandy Middle School Principal temporarily kicked out 20 students.

"One middle school teacher sought medical treatment after being hit in the head by a textbook lobbed by a student."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_dd9f1f26-06cb-5326-bcfa-3eec77e6f9c1.html

Sounds like the situation is so dire that I'd consider funding and temporarily placing an SRO in every classroom, or maybe 1:2 classes or 1:3, with a strict protocol for how disorderly behavior would be handled. I'd also invite parents to volunteer to be trained, and take shifts in classrooms, alongside the SROs. (Parent volunteers who pass a background check, as in most districts.) And then establish a council of students, parents, teachers, and SROs to discuss behavior modification and expectations, and consequences. They would only need to have the strong in-class SRO presence for a few weeks or months, until the "new" behavior expectations were in place, and the classrooms were "defibrillated", refocused on learning, and not behavior management.

It's sad to even have to contemplate putting an SRO in a classroom, but I think of it the same way as when a human resources rep has to be in the workplace observing, due to complaints. An SRO observing in the classroom signals that we are very serious about turning things around here, and "let's get down to work". And a parent presence would signal that there are parents who care deeply about kids, learning, schools, and behavior management. IMO. That's what I'd do, if I were queen of the universe.

 

[sonjay]

I agree. There is no magical solution. But contrary to some people's beliefs, there smart people, even in Ferguson. As part of becoming a member of any such board, they can be trained and educated on what is permissible and what is not permissible from the LE point of view. I would never suggest that average citizens be thrown onto a board such as this blindly.

Absolutely agree. Additionally, having CRB members do ride-alongs with the cops periodically would, IMO, go a long way toward increasing their understanding of what cops face out there on the streets. But, then you'd probably start getting accusations that the CRB is getting too cozy with the cops.

 

[Ladylub]

OT but so glad that most people here while debating will acknowledge facts ( whether we discredit them or not they still get acknowledged ) that come forward whether its for or against their belief in a case. I spent the last 2 days in a debate on FB me against 6 others. They all still believe that it was not MB in the robbery video, that there was no altercation at the car, that he was shot while lying on the ground, and the list goes on. And every article where is shows the family's lawyer not disputing certain things they say he does dispute it but I'm to stupid to understand. Lord so after banging my head instead of throwing insults I bowed out. I need to get back to people who use their brains even if I do not agree with your brain.

 

[zenreaper]

Sorry I don't understand what you are saying.

Threatening violence and acting upon it with the express intent of getting something done outside of normal channels. Do this or we will do this...see, we did this, now do THAT< NOW! Its extortion, plain and simple.

 

[DebinGA]

Normandy Middle School Principal temporarily kicked out 20 students.

"One middle school teacher sought medical treatment after being hit in the head by a textbook lobbed by a student."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_dd9f1f26-06cb-5326-bcfa-3eec77e6f9c1.html

From that article: "The court upheld the transfer law, opening doors to better schools for about 2,200 children in Normandy and the neighboring Riverview Gardens School District, both of which were unaccredited"

IIRC, there were only 3 school districts in the entire state of MO that lost their accreditation. And 2 of them are side by side near Ferguson? There's something seriously wrong in that community, or at least the part whose children go to these unaccredited schools. I couldn't understand much said at the council meeting, but one agitated woman on the right side mentioned the horrible schools her children were forced to attend, as if kids from other parts of Ferguson went to better schools in a different district. Normandy HS seems the worst of the worst in all MO. Yet, MB was allowed to live with his grandma so he could finish there when his mother moved out of the district. I'd really like to understand that choice.

 

[K_Z]

Are we talking about the store where MB took the cigars? It appears that store owner did not want the police involved and stated as much because of his fear of retaliation. So the last thing the store owner may have wanted was a police presence anywhere near his store giving the appearance that he was siding with LE. That is just my opinion but if people in the community were permitted to run a tab and owed him money he had a lot to lose.

I'm glad you mentioned "running a tab."

I have been waiting for the MB store robbery to morph into the virtuous story of "Mr. Peabody's Apples"-- that MB was just a "good person" who was "running a tab", and fully planned to pay for the merchandise "later."

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Peabodys-Apples-Madonna/dp/0670058831

 

[reedus23]

The problem that arises however is that since these people don't seem to trust any authority (such as LE) why would they trust a review board when it disagree's with their notions?

Some people are never going to be satisfied. I fully get that. But I think such boards would take away much of the argument about lack of transparency and accountability. The numbers left still complaining would be much smaller. Like was said, no magical answers that will fix everything, but I think it would be a step in the right direction.

 

[reedus23]

OT but so glad that most people here while debating will acknowledge facts ( whether we discredit them or not they still get acknowledged ) that come forward whether its for or against their belief in a case. I spent the last 2 days in a debate on FB me against 6 others. They all still believe that it was not MB in the robbery video, that there was no altercation at the car, that he was shot while lying on the ground, and the list goes on. And every article where is shows the family's lawyer not disputing certain things they say he does dispute it but I'm to stupid to understand. Lord so after banging my head instead of throwing insults I bowed out. I need to get back to people who use their brains even if I do not agree with your brain.

There is no debating with people like that. They are too deeply entrenched into a preordained outcome. Unfortunately, those kind of people exist and in a way it is scary. Imagine if someone who has already made up their mind so strongly despite evidence to the contrary ever made it onto a jury.

 

[LambChop]

I'm glad you mentioned "running a tab."

I have been waiting for the MB store robbery to morph into the virtuous story of "Mr. Peabody's Apples"-- that MB was just a "good person" who was "running a tab", and fully planned to pay for the merchandise "later."

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Peabodys-Apples-Madonna/dp/0670058831

The video is still there and I'm not sure you can run a tab on cigars or liquor because they are taxed (and aggressively watched) on the Federal level. Anyone know what the rules are?