MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #18

[LambChop]

What's sad about a man calling a woman a ho or a "thot"? :waitasec:

It's how they talk. But you can tell he is hurt. Does not make what he is saying right but it is the way kids talk today on the twitter and facebook.

 

[JLSChook]

I'm so proud of myself. I didn't even have to look up 'thot' on the urban dictionary, thanks to Heather Mack.

I texted my son. :blushing: He didn't know either, so I had to look it up on Urban Dictionary.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Sure, but that is not part of his criminal record, and it is probative because it is considered part of the same event, insofar as the strong-arm robbery can be argued as a reason for him to have attempted to evade (or confront) LE. That's totally different from looking at a criminal record, which is why criminal records are not admitted as evidence during a trial (except for during sentencing).

What if MB was on some sort of probation or special court order of some sort from a previous crime? You know, the ones they dole out to Juveniles.
Would that come into play if it was still in effect?

....just curious.....

 

[dandy]

I'm confused. I turned on BOR but must have missed whatever was on. What were they talking about?

he was interviewing a california (i think) radio host who said he's sorry that mbrown died, but kids do stupid stuff but have to be accountable for their actions - he didn't agree with the way the protestors have been acting - not the way to get your message across.

haha - imo - as i had only one ear listening- not really focusing/had it on as background noise. but his guest sounded like a grounded, common sense guy that might be able to talk some sense into the protestors/demandors (couldn't think of what else to call a person that demands).

edit - yes, he was a black man - and the interview took all of 1-2 minutes/very quick

 

[JLSChook]

It's how they talk. But you can tell he is hurt. Does not make what he is saying right but it is the way kids talk today on the twitter and facebook.

I understand that, but IMO, it's still disrespectful towards a woman. I really don't believe it makes that nasty language right because that's "how kids talk". My kid didn't talk that way and I think by excusing it because "everybody else does it" is dangerous and wrong.

My Mom used to say, "If everyone else jumped off the bridge, would you?" :giggle:

 

[Klood-N]

Sure, but that is not part of his criminal record, and it is probative because it is considered part of the same event, insofar as the strong-arm robbery can be argued as a reason for him to have attempted to evade (or confront) LE. That's totally different from looking at a criminal record, which is why criminal records are not admitted as evidence during a trial (except for during sentencing).

I'm sorry, but that's simply not accurate. There are absolutely circumstances under which previous convictions/bad acts are admissible, including juvenile records.

(d) Juvenile Adjudications. Evidence of a juvenile adjudication is admissible under this rule only if:

(1) it is offered in a criminal case;

(2) the adjudication was of a witness other than the defendant;

(3) an adult’s conviction for that offense would be admissible to attack the adult’s credibility; and

(4) admitting the evidence is necessary to fairly determine guilt or innocence.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_609

See page 5 (and more) here.
http://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2037&context=lawreview

 

[tlcya]

It seems like MB had a lot going on in the weeks and months before the day of the shooting. Several threads ago I and some others discussed he seemed to be at a crossroads in many ways in his life. That can be a really emotionally difficult age for the MB's of the world. And I agree LC, that was his hurt talking.

 

[al66pine]

Not sure if this has been posted. It is after the police have left. The screams are heartbreaking, but it shows them talking about calling in the JD etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiczUMZ3PJg

5 min vid clip, appears to have been taken on day of shooting after LE left. Maybe next day.
At ~ 3:20 to 3:50, narrator mentions rogue cops and says --Welcome to St. Louis, where cops kill unarmed black teenagers every day.Goes on about - the world needs to see this.

Oh, in St. Louis, every single day? Hmmm?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

5 min vid clip, appears to have been taken on day of shooting after LE left. Maybe next day.
At ~ 3:20 to 3:50, narrator mentions rogue cops and says --Welcome to St. Louis, where cops kill unarmed black teenagers every day.Goes on about - the world needs to see this.

Oh, in St. Louis, every single day? Hmmm?


This person should really refresh themselves with the 2010 FBI's crime statistics per race.
It is astounding.

 

[TexanMom]

he was interviewing a california (i think) radio host who said he's sorry that mbrown died, but kids do stupid stuff but have to be accountable for their actions - he didn't agree with the way the protestors have been acting - not the way to get your message across.

haha - imo - as i had only one ear listening- not really focusing/had it on as background noise. but his guest sounded like a grounded, common sense guy that might be able to talk some sense into the protestors/demandors (couldn't think of what else to call a person that demands).

edit - yes, he was a black man - and the interview took all of 1-2 minutes/very quick

Yes, accountability. Something that was sorely lacking in MB.

 

[Lovejac]

WTF ALERT: Brown “staggered dead after the second shot, 20-25 feet, to the ground,” the unidentified witness told CNN. “He was like a walking dead guy.”

http://news.yahoo.com/witness-micha...-not-charging-ferguson-officer-182409896.html


(didn't know what else to call it)

Dead guys can't stagger 20 - 25 feet because.........

Well, because they're dead :facepalm:

 

[LambChop]

I understand that, but IMO, it's still disrespectful towards a woman. I really don't believe it makes that nasty language right because that's "how kids talk". My kid didn't talk that way and I think by excusing it because "everybody else does it" is dangerous and wrong.

My Mom used to say, "If everyone else jumped off the bridge, would you?" :giggle:

This is their world. This is the way they talk whether we agree with it or not. It is a big part of the problem because no adult corrects them, or tells them "this is not appropriate". As far as jumping off a bridge, they'd have an answer for you on that one, too. There is a total lack of respect for anyone. Sadly, even themselves. Everything starts with the parents. If you don't do your job right, it will end with LE more times than not. jmo

 

[popsicle]

He might want to let Baden know he's overruling him on number of shots, and which one killed him.

lol I should clarify the alert was for the reporters facts.

 

[Klood-N]

In fact, the argument to unseal from the two news organizations specifically referenced a MO case where juvenile records were allowed in a wrongful death action to argue the potential lost earnings portion, iirc. Anyhow, yes sometimes criminal records are admissible in court.

Missouri law

Juvenile court adjudication, use to affect credibility--sexual offense adjudication, affect on credibility--multiple adjudications, admissible, when.
491.078. 1. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, a juvenile court adjudication for any of the following acts may be used to affect the credibility of a witness or a defendant in a criminal case, if such acts occurred within three years of the date of any sworn testimony by the witness or defendant:

(1) An act that would have been a class A or class B felony if committed by an adult;

(2) An act that would have been a class C or class D felony if committed by an adult, if the juvenile court record contains at least one other adjudication for any act that would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

2. In any case in which a defendant is charged with a sexual offense under the provisions of chapter 566, a juvenile court adjudication of the defendant may be used to question the credibility of the defendant if such adjudication is for an act which would have been a violation of chapter 566 if the act had been committed by an adult and if such juvenile court adjudication occurred within three years of the commission of the pending offense. If the defendant's juvenile court records contain more than one adjudication for acts which would have been violations of chapter 566 if committed by an adult, such multiple adjudications shall be admissible for impeachment regardless of when they occurred.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/chapters/chap491.htm

 

[katydid23]

i didn't understand when o'reilly said he thought it was a mistake = but never mentioned whether he was referencing mbrown or odw.

best way to summarize the radio host - he said he's gonna get tons of emails calling him an uncle tom for what he's saying & appearing on o'reilly's show.

I got the feeling that OReilly didnt know too much about the facts of the case. He seemed to be sayng the cop shot mistakenly, out of fear. :facepalm:


I also got the feeling that OReilly wanted to take the liberal stance in this interview, so he could appear 'fair and balanced.' lol

 

[TheDuchess]

I understand that, but IMO, it's still disrespectful towards a woman. I really don't believe it makes that nasty language right because that's "how kids talk". My kid didn't talk that way and I think by excusing it because "everybody else does it" is dangerous and wrong.

My Mom used to say, "If everyone else jumped off the bridge, would you?" :giggle:

For clarification, since I posted it without comment, I did so simply to present the fact that MB had some serious angst in his life. I'm not even sure it is relevant, because people go through things all of the time. It could add that he may have had a lot on his mind, perhaps justifiably so. I don't know. For her part, the girlfriend seems to have regrets about the breakup, as she's become a MB defender:

<modsnip>

 

[Montjoy]

I'm sorry, but that's simply not accurate. There are absolutely circumstances under which previous convictions/bad acts are admissible, including juvenile records.

(d) Juvenile Adjudications. Evidence of a juvenile adjudication is admissible under this rule only if:

I'm going to have to snip this right here. We're not talking about a juvenile adjudication. MB was an adult. Juvenile adjudications (trials) are handled differently than trials for adults. (You can check the first sentence of the article you linked to get a better sense of the context.) The digitalcommons article you linked was about juvenile trials, not adult trials.

As for your Cornell link -- yes, criminal records can be introduced to impeach a witness. But in this case, MB cannot testify, so he cannot provide any testimony to be impeached.

 

[sonjay]

I'm sorry, but that's simply not accurate. There are absolutely circumstances under which previous convictions/bad acts are admissible, including juvenile records.

(d) Juvenile Adjudications. Evidence of a juvenile adjudication is admissible under this rule only if:

(1) it is offered in a criminal case;

(2) the adjudication was of a witness other than the defendant;

(3) an adult’s conviction for that offense would be admissible to attack the adult’s credibility; and

(4) admitting the evidence is necessary to fairly determine guilt or innocence.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_609

Also relevant is FRE rule 404.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404

The notes specifically mention this exact type circumstance:

The amendment makes clear that the accused cannot attack the alleged victim's character and yet remain shielded from the disclosure of equally relevant evidence concerning the same character trait of the accused. For example, in a murder case with a claim of self-defense, the accused, to bolster this defense, might offer evidence of the alleged victim's violent disposition. If the government has evidence that the accused has a violent character, but is not allowed to offer this evidence as part of its rebuttal, the jury has only part of the information it needs for an informed assessment of the probabilities as to who was the initial aggressor.
​

 

[JLSChook]

This is their world. This is the way they talk whether we agree with it or not. It is a big part of the problem because no adult corrects them, or tells them "this is not appropriate". As far as jumping off a bridge, they'd have an answer for you on that one, too. There is a total lack of respect for anyone. Sadly, even themselves. Everything starts with the parents. If you don't do your job right, it will end with LE more times than not. jmo

ITA! We are definitely on the same page. Great post!

 

[popsicle]

Dead guys can't stagger 20 - 25 feet because.........

Well, because they're dead :facepalm:

I swear this came up in another case. :thinking: Wait... it was a cop killing case... ugh can't remember it now...