MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[CARIIS]

Originally Posted by Muffet
-Way OT warning-

I think I have to edit 99% of my posts, thanks to posting from Tapatalk, autocorrect, and all that jazz.

Also, the amount of time I have spent following this case and threads reminds me of why I went cold-turkey from sleuthing a few years ago. It's like crack.

I. Can't. Stop.

(But no more for a while after this one. I hope. )

Know what you mean. The other day I thought everytime there is a major news event their is a correlation between decline in vacuumng, floor mopping, and food supplies, -- it is all of your alls fault, Totally addictive, but fascinating huh!

 

[katydid23]

OK how about this. Let's just say that MB did walk over to the window and started throwing punches unprovoked. Let's say the gun was in the holster and MB went for it and somehow we knew his intent was to kill. But he couldn't get the gun so he ran away... Is it still ok for A LEO to gun him down as he is walking away or is the proper response to Point your gun at him and order him to raise his hands and get on his knees?

The proper response is to order him to FREEZE at gunpoint. But lets say he begins running at that point, then what? That is the question that it will hinge on, imo.

 

[Muffet]

What would help me greatly is if I could visually "see" crime scene. I tried google, looked at scene photos, but I am not getting perspective. OW made a u-turn partially blocking street ahead of them, driver's side facing them at angle. Does anyone have dimensions, guesstimates? Was red cap close to OW's SUV? Where was car DJ hid behind? How far from SUV was where MB went down.

I am assuming MB was head facing SUV. Is that correct?

Me too. I still haven't forgotten the voice in the background of the tape asking "if he was running away, why is he facing this way?"

(I think that was what got the other (most credible, imo, since he didn't know he was being recorded) witness to tell them that he saw MB turn around and go back after officer Wilson.)

 

[i.b.nora]

Earlier today on the previous thread I posted a link to the Official St Louis Police Department incident report on the officer involved shooting of Michael Brown.

Now we have an Official Ferguson Police Department incident report of a 'disturbance' at Coppercreek Ct and Canfield Dr (which is essentially the location of the officer involved shooting).

http://www.aclu-mo.org/files/4314/0871/7727/Ferguson_Police_incident_report.pdf

There is a short article about it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/ferguson-police-incident-report_n_5701131.html

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

Who was the Real MB?

 

[CARIIS]

Me too! And it always confused me why media never mentioned - its adding and subtracting and then that fact just left the story!! Its bizaire -- a lot of the same stuff happened on MAL 370 coverage as it relates to media

That fact has always stuck in my mind, that only 3 were recovered from the body.

I honestly would not be suprised to find out that MB wasn't hit by 6 bullets.

IMO and according to Dr G (she was on Fox or CNN the other day) the first autopsy is the most accurate of all. And I'm wondering why we heard about the 2nd autopsy on Mon and still nothing about the 1st one.

 

[bettybaby00]

What would help me greatly is if I could visually "see" crime scene. I tried google, looked at scene photos, but I am not getting perspective. OW made a u-turn partially blocking street ahead of them, driver's side facing them at angle. Does anyone have dimensions, guesstimates? Was red cap close to OW's SUV? Where was car DJ hid behind? How far from SUV was where MB went down.

I am assuming MB was head facing SUV. Is that correct?

I'm surprised one of these shows hasn't done this yet, but I suspect there isn't enough info publicly available.

We'll see it at trial if it goes that far for sure. Although IIRC, didn't the DA say if there was no indictment, he would release all the info?

As for your questions about the scene.

Yes, MBs head is pointed toward OWs car. And his red cap looked like it landed near/on the sidewalk....damn that's sadly ironic.

And IIRC DJ said he hid behind the "the white Monte Carlo" behind OWs vehicle.

Regarding his position, I question if DJ really did see everything once MB started away from the car? This last witness describes him as "crouched behind the parked car, which was behind the officer's"

I have to wonder if "crouched and hiding" might mean head ducked below the sight line of the parked car? How much did he really see?

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

Getting published in journals is huge!!

Mary Case, M.D.

[TABLE="width: 650"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Position: Professor

Education:
Saint Louis University School of Medicine, 1969

Office: Doisy Hall, Rm 517

Email Address: [email protected]

CV: Mary Case, M.D.

[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Mary Case, M.D.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Clinical/Research Interests:

Child abuse and abusive head injuries; adult head trauma

---

Division

Forensic Pathology
Certifications

1974 American Board of Pathology, Anatomic Pathology
1975 American Board of Pathology, Neuropathology
1983 American Board of Pathology, Forensic Pathology

Memberships

AMA
NAME
AAFS
IAP
MO State Med Association
St. Louis Med Society

Departmental Affiliations

Anatomic, Neuropathology, and Forensic Pathology

Publications

1. Kemp JS, Unger B, Wilkins D, Psara RM, Ledbetter TL, Graham MA, Case M, and Thach BT, Unsafe Sleep Practices and An Analysis of Bedsharing Among Infants Dying Suddenly and Unexpectedly: Results of Four-Year, Population-Based, Death-Scene Investigation Study of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and Related Deaths. Pediatrics. 106: (3)2000.

2. Case, M.E., Graham, M.A., Handy T.C., Jentzen, J.M., and Monteleone, J.A. : Position Paper on Shaken Baby. National Association of Medical Examiners Ad Hoc Committee on Shaken Baby Syndrome. Amer. J. of Forensic Medicine and Pathology. 23(21): 112-122, 2001.

3. Case, Mary, Drinking and Driving in the State of Missouri, St. Louis Metropolitan Medicine. 23: 10-11,2001.

4. Unger B, Kemp JS, Wilkins D, Psara R, Ledbetter T, Graham M, Case, M, and Thach BT, “Racial disparity and modifiable risk factors among infants dying suddenly and unexpectedly”, Pediatrics, 2003; 111(2):127-31.

5. Morad Y, AvniI, Capra L, Case, ME, Feldman K, Kodsi SR, Ersernio_Jenssen D, Kukefahr JL, and Levin Av. Shaken Baby Syndrome without Intracranial Hemorrhage on Initial Computed Tomography, J AAPOS 2004;8:521-527.
6. Case, Mary E. “Abusive Head Injury in Infants and Young Children”. Legal Medicine Advances in Forensic Pathology, Legal Medicine (Tokyo) 2007;9(2):83-87.
7. Case, Mary E. Forensic Pathology of Child Brain Trauma, Brain Pathology 2008;18:562-564.
8. Case,Mary E. Accidental Traumatic Head Injury in Infants and Young Children, Brain Pathology 2008;18:583-589.

9. Case, Mary E. Inflicted Traumatic Brain Injury in Infants and Young Children, Brain Pathology 2008;18:571-582.

10. Voges d, Harris K, Psara R, Graham M, Case M, Thach BT. Post-Mortem Temperatures of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) Infants: Relevance For the “Heat Stress” Theory for SIDS. Submitted for publication Jan 2009.

Book

1. Child Fatality Review Quick Reference. Randall Alexander, MD, PhD and Mary Case, MD. STM Learning, Inc, St. Louis 2011.
Honors and Awards

Special Leadership Award for the Professions, Metropolitan St. Louis YWCA, December 7, 1990.
Norman Westbrook "Hall of Fame" Award, Missouri Police
Juvenile Officers Association, May 19, 1992.
Roland Quest Award, St Louis University School of Medicine Pathology Department, 2000.
Saul R. Korey Lecture, "Neuropathology and Forensic Pathology: A Natural Synergism", 76
Recognition Award from the St. Louis Metropolitan Medical Society for the video "Teen Drinking and Driving", January 13, 2001.
Faculty Woman of the Year 2001, St. Louis University, April 26, 2001.
Special Recognition Award, St. Charles Crime Stoppers, April 18, 2002.
Alumnus of the Year, Jefferson City High School, 2007.
President’s Award, National Association of Medical Examiners, Louisville, KY, September 9, 2008.
George E. Gantner, Jr., MD Memorial Lecture Award, Masters 13 Conference for Advanced Death Investigation, St. Louis University School of Medicine, July 27,2009

http://path.slu.edu/index.php?page=mary-case-m-d.

---

VS:


Pushing corpses around/

Your responses must be comprehensive and detailed. Please support you conclusions in a concrete manner. Differences are to be examined in a thorough manner!!

LOL!!!!!

I have read in a main stream media article that Dr Case and Dr Baden are frequently speakers at the same seminar and know and respect each other. Since I can not find a link, this is my opinion. I will look tomorrow for the link.

 

[Lovejac]

Dr. Baden just said on "Hannity": "I performed the second autopsy"

Whew. Good to know

 

[CARIIS]

Hey lets just hope the other guy just handed him tools and cleaned up afterwards - that matches his training!

Originally Posted by Phoebeb Dr. Baden just said on "Hannity": "I performed the second autopsy

 

[Lovejac]

Someone leaked the fact it's an orbital fx

Who?! So it IS an orbital fracture?

Where have you been, pops? We missed you :loveyou:

 

[CARIIS]

And the hits just keep comin!

SStarr33

Registered User


Join DateDec 2013Posts3,766

Dorian's attorney:


Missouri wants Freeman Bosley Jr.'s law license suspended for two years

 

[SStarr33]

Earlier today on the previous thread I posted a link to the Official St Louis Police Department incident report on the officer involved shooting of Michael Brown.

Now we have an Official Ferguson Police Department incident report of a 'disturbance' at Coppercreek Ct and Canfield Dr (which is essentially the location of the officer involved shooting).

http://www.aclu-mo.org/files/4314/0871/7727/Ferguson_Police_incident_report.pdf

There is a short article about it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/ferguson-police-incident-report_n_5701131.html

Thank you. This supports the Time link you gave earlier too.

 

[Phoebeb]

Maybe one or two of the other arm injuries (besides the thumb) could have been from the altercation at the car, right? Maybe there were two shots at the car- I heard the anonymous witness say pop, pop then a few seconds later pop pop pop.

Diagram of where MB was shot. To me it looks like he was shot from the front..

 

[tlcya]

Prof. Parcells said a wound on Brown’s right arm was “consistent with a witness statement” that Brown was first shot while facing away from Wilson, but he stressed that he and Dr. Baden could not determine conclusively the trajectories of the bullets that hit Brown—or which direction he was moving—when he was shot. The wounds “could be consistent with going forward or going backward,” Dr. Baden said.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

<this it?>

What We Learned from an Independent Autopsy of Michael Brown
http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

yes thank you, this will suffice.

here are just some of my problems with this MSM article. Not the folks who are using it as a source, I want to make that clear, but with the article itself:

Dr. Baden and Prof. Parcells said the two shots to the head were probably the last two shots fired.

Mrl Parcells credentials are in serious question. First he was presenting himself as a doctor, then that was debunked. Now he is termed professor. He is an adjunct professor who taught a couple of classes. Literally.

Prof. Parcells said a wound on Brown&#8217;s right arm was &#8220;consistent with a witness statement&#8221; that Brown was first shot while facing away from Wilson, but he stressed that he and Dr. Baden could not determine conclusively the trajectories of the bullets that hit Brown&#8212;or which direction he was moving&#8212;when he was shot. The wounds &#8220;could be consistent with going forward or going backward,&#8221; Dr. Baden said.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

Note the first B and UBM is singular. ONE wound MAY have come from behind. Next sentence B and UBM state wounds (plural) could (maybe?) hve come from behind. How exactly does ONE wound which is singular turn into multiple wounds which could, maybe, possibly have come from behind or from the front?

Other MS media reports and the press conference I watched where I listened to each and every word from Baden's mouth and then watched them twisted and spun from Parcell's mouth indicated Baden said

Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

and yet all bullets came from the front. Surely you can understand my confusion.

 

[SStarr33]

Maybe one or two of the other arm injuries (besides the thumb) could have been from the altercation at the car, right? Maybe there were two shots at the car- I heard the anonymous witness say pop, pop then a few seconds later pop pop pop.

what I don't understand is if he was shot when he was surrendering with his hands up, then why were his hands/arms underneath him when he died?

 

[Phoebeb]

I heard him say that orbital fracture report was leaked and shamed Sean Hannity a little for believing an unconfirmed report. Said we need to wait for official reports. So he doesn't know if it was or wasn't but he did say an eye injury could affect vision, no question.
imo that's how I heard it...

Did Baden say that?

 

[bettybaby00]

Who?! So it IS an orbital fracture?

Where have you been, pops? We missed you :loveyou:

I think he said, "it was leaked there was an orbital fracture."

Vid should be up in an hour or 2

In addition to that he wasn't given 2 much air time.
He confirmed HE did the autopsy
His started getting preachy about "the number of bullets in an open area that could have struck others"
That's when the fracture came up. And that it would have effected OWs vision.

I don't think he ever really got a chance to talk about the autopsy itself?

 

[CARIIS]

And they made it like no orbital blowout - so here is what a fracture is:"

Splitting hairs? Manipulating the public - forgot their criminal attorneys silly me!

........a great deal of force is required to cause these fractures, they often occur with extensive injuries to other facial bones, and sometimes injuries to the brain. Even if the damage is limited to the eye area, there may be additional injuries to the eye itself,

About 15% are caused by violent assaults.

• Double vision, decreased vision or blurry vision (aiming a gun?)
  
  http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/eye-socket-fracture-fracture-of-the-orbit.html
  
  
• Difficulty looking up, down, right or left

 

[Yoda]

What would help me greatly is if I could visually "see" crime scene. I tried google, looked at scene photos, but I am not getting perspective. OW made a u-turn partially blocking street ahead of them, driver's side facing them at angle. Does anyone have dimensions, guesstimates? Was red cap close to OW's SUV? Where was car DJ hid behind? How far from SUV was where MB went down.

I am assuming MB was head facing SUV. Is that correct?

These are links to different views of the scene. (Mods- they are direct links to the images.)

http://therightscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mike-brown-cell-phone-TRS.jpg

http://media.jrn.com/images/660*411/b99332835z.1_20140818124710_000_gmd7g4o6.1-1.jpg


http://media.kmov.com/images/Coppercreek-scene-080914.jpg


http://img.opposingviews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/350x250/featured_image/alts/081614/ferguson3.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/1408116848048_wps_9_DO_NOT_USE_Michael_Brown_.jpg


http://www.trbimg.com/img-53f07764/turbine/la-na-nn-video-michael-brown-20140816


http://images.dailykos.com/images/99824/large/ferg3_copy.jpg?1408031070