MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[Lovejac]

Very well written. Thanks for contacting them SStarr

 

[tlcya]

I really, wholly with my heart, do not believe MB would have reached inside the car and grappled with OW to get his gun. Especially as a Black man, who would have known what LE is capable of doing to him. No matter how stupid he was, I don't think he was that stupid. I'm sorry, I am just.not.buying.it at this time. It doesn't make one iota of sense to me, even for someone so stupid as people are claiming he was.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the gun was already being pointed at him by Officer Wilson. In my heard and my head, this makes a lot more sense than the above scenario.

JMO.

and I wholeheartedly feel that just does not make sense but support your right to uphold your POV. If there were any indication that this officer was known for being racist, or for abusing his power, or for treating citizens in a disrespectful heavy handed manner or was known as a hot head, etc, I might entertain the idea that he pulled his gun unprovoked on an unarmed young man. But it simply is not there for me.

Agreeing to respectfully disagree and continue discussing because I do appreciate that mine is not the only viewpoint out there and only through this sort of dialogue can this case be responsibly examined.

 

[TaylurRose02]

good post. I wanted to say that while we do not know that MB was purposefully trying to get to DW's gun, the admitted "serious/major" altercation at and within the car is a fact. In that circumstance we do not know what either man was thinking. So even if MB did not have intent at the beginning of the "tussle" it would not be at all unreasonable for DW to think or worry that was his intention. The release of information that there is proof that MB touched the gun will be interpretted differently by folks.

Some will believe that MB touched the gun because it was shoved in his face by a rogue racists cop who said "I am going to shoot you" on a public street before at least one witness known to him in broad daylight despite that theory defying logic and common sense IMO

Others will believe that the touching of the gun indicates the beginning of a perceived life and death struggle situation for DW. that is my belief at this time based on what info is currently available, my own life experience and plain old common sense.

I don't need to know if MB was actually trying to disarm DW. I simply need to know DW believed that was true. And common sense tells me he would have to consider his weapons being compromised in a struggle taking place within his vehicle.

I understand what you mean. But if you look at the bumpy history Ferguson police force has, I don't think it'd be out of the question for a cop to think he could get away with something in broad daylight. I'm not in any way saying OW is guilty or innocent. Same for MB. But looking at both sides, I think there was an attitude coming from both ends.

 

[aa9511]

No, it couldn't have been. That's not what happened. That's not what the family's attorney said.



That did not happen. That's not what the family's attorney said. BTW, this is against the law. You cannot do that. THAT is grounds for being shot. You absolutely, positively, cannot touch an officer's gun. Ever. Or anyone else's gun for that matter. You will be shot every, single time. That is NOT a defense in court, specifically dealing with an officer. You are to comply, regardless of what you "think" (and that's another matter entirely, but whatever..).

Ok, so now that we've established that your scenario is completely false based on what the family's attorney has said, do you have any FACTS (including links, what I asked for initially) to refute what I've posted? TIA.

The family's attorney?? Was the family's attorney there at the time of this whole killing? Was the family's attorney an eye-witness to the killing? Was the family there?

<modsnip> Is he able to somehow talk to Michael Brown to get his version of the story?

FACT: We are missing one very important eye-witness' version of events, because oh yeah, that person is dead.

<modsnip>

JMO.

 

[bettybaby00]

I really, wholly with my heart, do not believe MB would have reached inside the car and grappled with OW to get his gun. Especially as a Black man, who would have known what LE is capable of doing to him. No matter how stupid he was, I don't think he was that stupid. I'm sorry, I am just.not.buying.it at this time. It doesn't make one iota of sense to me, even for someone so stupid as people are claiming he was.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the gun was already being pointed at him by Officer Wilson. In my heard and my head, this makes a lot more sense than the above scenario.

JMO.

That's fair, but it's also an indication that your "world view" of what a young black man would or wouldn't do effects your opinion.

Nothing wrong with that.

My world view influences me to believe that if MBs family lawyer is going on TV nightly to offer their side of the story, and the assault accusations were untrue, he'd be saying, emphatically that OW pulled his gun, aimed it at MB b/c he was mouthing off, threatened to shoot him, and then proceeded to do so.

JMO

 

[liloleme]

Response in RED by me.

There is only the statement by Dorian, who was a participant in the entire event, and absolutely nothing by Wilson. No one knows the state of mind of OW. No one has published OW's ER findings.
Other witnesses did not have the full vantage of the entire incident, what was said, saw/recorded only snippets, or were too far from the scene to perceive with certainty what was going on.

I asked for links to back up your refutation.

You said speculation.

1. OW eye socket was blown out. Who blew it out?____ Has the family's attorney denied that MB hit OW in the face? YES or NO?
2. Family's attorney already said he tried to get the gun.
3. Please explain why MB would be disarming OW? _______________
4. Please explain what MB would have possibly done with OW's gun. _________
5. Who was able to stop MB from getting the gun? (family attorney already said he tried to get the gun)
6. If there was a struggle with the gun (as the family attorney said), then who was MB struggling with?
7. #6 is proven.
8. I can give you that is my opinion. I should have said "logic" as opposed to "fact". It is logical to assume that MB would have continued his assault. YES or NO.
9. If someone hits you in the face and you have a gun and they try to get it and there is a struggle for it and you are fighting with them for it, would you think your life was in danger? YES or NO?
10. Please provide an alternative recourse for OW.

I requested this: If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post

I noticed that this question keeps being asked with no answer given. Could it have been because it involved an officer who was involved in a shooting death?

Yes. I've asked for confirmation and or links on 2 different days and had had NO response.

 

[LambChop]

I knew of a fatal on the highway where the highway was closed down for 6 hours. So if there are any set rules I'd appreciate it if a poster would post that information for us. Are there guidelines? I don't know.

 

[bettybaby00]

The family's attorney?? Was the family's attorney there at the time of this whole killing? Was the family's attorney an eye-witness to the killing? Was the family there?

Is the family attorney able to contact Michael Brown, wherever he is at this time? Through God or something? Is he able to somehow talk to Michael Brown to get his version of the story?

FACT: We are missing one very important eye-witness' version of events, because oh yeah, that person is dead.

I don't have to refute what you've posted, because the logic you have posted are not facts, they are your own interpretation of what happened.

JMO.

BBM

Logic dictates that the family's lawyers are fully aware of what DJs OFFICIAL statements to police are.

 

[liloleme]

The family's attorney?? Was the family's attorney there at the time of this whole killing? Was the family's attorney an eye-witness to the killing? Was the family there?

Is the family attorney able to contact Michael Brown, wherever he is at this time? Through God or something? Is he able to somehow talk to Michael Brown to get his version of the story?

FACT: We are missing one very important eye-witness' version of events, because oh yeah, that person is dead.

I don't have to refute what you've posted, because the logic you have posted are not facts, they are your own interpretation of what happened.

JMO.

We do have an eyewitness to what happened. It's not as if THE ONLY eyewitness is dead.

We have three eyewitnesses. Two of which are telling the same story (OW and the guy caught off video, on audio, moments after it happened). Additionally, we have DW who, at the very least, has told some truth. We haven't heard everything he has said. But, he's told these exact same things.

We don't need MB to tell his side. We know what happened. We just don't know what was going through his mind when he was doing the crazy things he was doing. Now, that would be interesting to know, for certain. But, if he were alive, I'm sure he'd tell you he didn't even know what he was thinking at the time.

 

[aa9511]

That's fair, but it's also an indication that your "world view" of what a young black man would or wouldn't do effects your opinion.

Nothing wrong with that.

My world view influences me to believe that if MBs family lawyer is going on TV nightly to offer their side of the story, and the assault accusations were untrue, he'd be saying, emphatically that OW pulled his gun, aimed it at MB b/c he was mouthing off, threatened to shoot him, and then proceeded to do so.

JMO

Maybe he's not saying that's what happened because he doesn't know what happened.

Again, he was not there.


How exactly is he supposed to somehow have divine portal to talk to Michael Brown and get his account of what happened and then transmit it to all of us?

Does it not make sense that the family's attorney would not know everything that happened if Michael Brown, the person to tell him, is dead?

Would what he says even be allowed to come into a court of law during the trial? I don't think so, because how would the family attorney know what happened without being there? The prosecutor cannot call the family's attorney to come in and testify about what happened, because family attorney was not there.

Family attorney is NOT an eye or ear witness.

JMO.

 

[LambChop]

I understand what you mean. But if you look at the bumpy history Ferguson police force has, I don't think it'd be out of the question for a cop to think he could get away with something in broad daylight. I'm not in any way saying OW is guilty or innocent. Same for MB. But looking at both sides, I think there was an attitude coming from both ends.

Do you have a link for that?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Just bringing this up and not directing this at anyone:

If anyone is interested in following a similar situation where the roles are reversed (and a much better example than celebrity R. Witherspo*n), I noted an incident on page 3 or 4 of this thread where a young man of white/latino heritage was shot dead by a black police officer outside of a convenience store very, very recently in Utah.
I did not post a link as to not sidetrack this thread.
But if anyone is interested, they can check it out themselves. Yes, there's a video of it as the officer was wearing a body camera.

Similar stuff in many ways. No preferential treatment I see based on the color of the skin, imho.

 

[Bernina]

I asked for links to back up your refutation.

You said speculation.

1. OW eye socket was blown out. Who blew it out?____ Has the family's attorney denied that MB hit OW in the face? YES or NO?
2. Family's attorney already said he tried to get the gun.
3. Please explain why MB would be disarming OW? _______________
4. Please explain what MB would have possibly done with OW's gun. _________
5. Who was able to stop MB from getting the gun? (family attorney already said he tried to get the gun)
6. If there was a struggle with the gun (as the family attorney said), then who was MB struggling with?
7. #6 is proven.
8. I can give you that is my opinion. I should have said "logic" as opposed to "fact". It is logical to assume that MB would have continued his assault. YES or NO.
9. If someone hits you in the face and you have a gun and they try to get it and there is a struggle for it and you are fighting with them for it, would you think your life was in danger? YES or NO?
10. Please provide an alternative recourse for OW.

I requested this: If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

I believe your posting speculations that are NOT linked to verifiable MSM. So if you're going to state "FACTS", maybe you should provide the links where YOU found them?

 

[aa9511]

We do have an eyewitness to what happened. It's not as if THE ONLY eyewitness is dead.

We have three eyewitnesses. Two of which are telling the same story (OW and the guy caught off video, on audio, moments after it happened). Additionally, we have DW who, at the very least, has told some truth. We haven't heard everything he has said. But, he's told these exact same things.

We don't need MB to tell his side. We know what happened. We just don't know what was going through his mind when he was doing the crazy things he was doing. Now, that would be interesting to know, for certain. But, if he were alive, I'm sure he'd tell you he didn't even know what he was thinking at the time.

No, we do not know what happened.

I don't know what happened.

OW has not spoken anywhere himself.

Family attorney doesn't know what happened.

Dorian knows a lot, but various things he might be covering up/minimizing so as to protect his own a** from prosecution and prison time. That is totally understandable to me.

JMO.

 

[popsicle]

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Gov Nixon just showed up at the NAACP protest. Tells a resident he's "listening very carefully" to the community.
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[ATasteOfHoney]

I really, wholly with my heart, do not believe MB would have reached inside the car and grappled with OW to get his gun. Especially as a Black man, who would have known what LE is capable of doing to him. No matter how stupid he was, I don't think he was that stupid. I'm sorry, I am just.not.buying.it at this time. It doesn't make one iota of sense to me, even for someone so stupid as people are claiming he was.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the gun was already being pointed at him by Officer Wilson. In my heard and my head, this makes a lot more sense than the above scenario.

JMO.

And to be fair, I don't think OW was that stupid as to pull anyone into his patrol car's window and into his car.

Officers get out of their car.....not try to bring someone into their driver's side through the window.

Nope.

 

[liloleme]

I believe your posting speculations that are NOT linked to verifiable MSM. So if you're going to state "FACTS", maybe you should provide the links where YOU found them?

The link from the family's attorney has already been posted, but I'll go find it and post it again for you.

In the meantime, can you answer the following that is not dependent on that link?

1. OW eye socket was blown out. Who blew it out?____ Has the family's attorney denied that MB hit OW in the face? YES or NO?

8. I can give you that is my opinion. I should have said "logic" as opposed to "fact". It is logical to assume that MB would have continued his assault. YES or NO.
9. If someone hits you in the face and you have a gun and they try to get it and there is a struggle for it and you are fighting with them for it, would you think your life was in danger? YES or NO?
10. Please provide an alternative recourse for OW.

TIA and brb!

 

[LambChop]

Please do not be disrespectful of Michael Brown's family when posting your opinions. Next post will be removed completely.

 

[aa9511]

A poster on here earlier wrote about how she/he was worried about militarization of police....just now on CNN is headline "Obama orders review of military equipment for police."