MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[sorrell skye]

The NAACP march will go to "ground zero" - Canfield where MB was shot, according to what the guy on Argus Radio just said on his livestream.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

I doubt he'll be able to follow the marchers, since he's tethered to his big vehicle. It takes him forever to get anywhere, unlike Tim, who could move anywhere pretty quickly because he was on foot.

 

[tlcya]

We are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions don't make up protocol.

If someone punches you in the eye socket and busts your eye socket and fights you for your gun, you don't reach for a tazer to protect yourself. You don't have to have a protocol in place to know this. That's just common sense.

Is it a tragedy that someone got shot and died? It is.

Is it a tragedy that MB made some really bad decisions that led to his death. It REALLY is.

Is it a tragedy that Officer Wilson now has to live with using his gun to kill a suspect? It REALLY, REALLY is.

I'd like those who question Officer Wilson's action to step back for a moment and evaluate facts & options, using logic, not emotion.

1. FACT: OW got punched by MB in eye socket, blew out OW eye socket. (This is a felony.)
2. FACT: MB not only TOUCHED OW gun but he tried to get it. (Also a felony.)
3. LOGIC: If MB was trying to get OW gun, he was trying to disarm OW for the purposes of killing OW.
4. LOGIC: If MB had gotten OW gun, he would have likely killed OW.
5. FACT: OW was able to stop MB from getting his gun.
6. FACT: OW had a hold of his gun (because he had stopped MB from getting it and gun, allegedly, went off.)
7. FACT: In order for OW to use a tazer (if available), OW would have had to properly re-holster his gun (which could have required exiting the car depending on how OW gun position and body position ended up in the struggle), retrieve his tazer, and prepare it for use.
8. FACT: During the course of #7, given MB's past 15-20 seconds of behavior, it is highly likely MB would have continued his assault on OW and very likely another gun struggle would have/could have occurred.
9. FACT: OW life was in danger.
10. FACT: Given the above facts & logic, the only recourse OW had was to use his gun to stop the suspect.

If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

I share your viewpoint that MB was the aggressor and that the interaction at the vehicle was the beginning of a struggle for life or death between the men. But in teh interest of fairness I wanted to address your points.

1. There are links supporting the orbital blow out and links disputing them - so for me still speculation - possible but not fact. The punch appears to be acknowledge somewhat by family attorney so I will agree that I am viewing a punch by MB as fact.


2. There are links to support MB touching gun so I agree - fact. But the reasons for touching the gun are not known therefore attempted to get the gun is still disputed and speculation IMO

3. Open to interpretation as we cannot know the motivations of either man in that moment.

4. I agree it would certainly be a more than reasonable concern for DW but again, we cannot know MB motivations all we have are his actions and can make certain assumptions from them but those will be interpreted differently depending on our POVs

5. FACT, MB did not get the gun. See 2. open to interpretation depending on POV

6. Speculation, since we cannot know how the gun came into play as a fact at this time we cannot know that OW kept MB from getting it but can make assumptions based on POV

7. I feel that even attempting to get or use taser from within the vehicle and in such close quarters would not be appropriate and may even be dangerous to DW so I do not even feel that was an option regardless of POV on the gun business (why it was out, whether MB was trying actively to get it and why)

8. See 6 and 7

9. IMO true but not fact since we have not heard his recounting of events and the actions of himself and MB

10. Again, I view this case similarly to you but must concede this case is fact short and opinion heavy. You and I could both provide dozens of links regarding all of the above but they would contradict one another because the stories and reputed facts keep changing daily in the press and that is what we are bound to go by here. So I hope you will understand my not providing links for each of the 10 points you discuss above.

 

[cady]

JMO I really doubt that the family lawyers know exactly what happened, much more than we do. Granted, they have a narrative which must accommodate any solid facts that are generated. But it might be helpful to remember that they are representing the family in a possible Civil Rights suit. They are only parties to the possible criminal case peripherally. If the criminal case goes forward, they may become privy to prosecution evidence. They have heard, just like we have, that purportedly Wilson suffered an orbital blowout. Maybe he did maybe he did not....we won't know until we SEE the evidence. Neither will they. They, like we, have also heard that purportedly LE has "solid" evidence that MB handled or touched the weapon. Evidence that we can SEE will either confirm that or not. Proof is a rather important element in the establishment of FACTS. JMHO

 

[sorrell skye]

The NAACP organizer is telling folks that if they want to march with them, they must wear an NAACP tee shirt.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

 

[CHERIE.T]

If this isn't proper MSN please remove.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...t-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z8

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

 

[ladonna]

Capt Ron has joined the NAACP march I understand,does anyone have the live link?

 

[bettybaby00]

Maybe he's not saying that's what happened because he doesn't know what happened.

Again, he was not there.


How exactly is he supposed to somehow have divine portal to talk to Michael Brown and get his account of what happened and then transmit it to all of us?

Does it not make sense that the family's attorney would not know everything that happened if Michael Brown, the person to tell him, is dead?

Would what he says even be allowed to come into a court of law during the trial? I don't think so, because how would the family attorney know what happened without being there? The prosecutor cannot call the family's attorney to come in and testify about what happened, because family attorney was not there.

Family attorney is NOT an eye or ear witness.

JMO.

Yes Parks and Crump weren't there, but to me it's more than logical to believe that they are fully aware of what Dorian officially told investigators.

This isn't a case where 2 guys are accused of committing a crime, and then one tells a dramatically different story implicating his friend to cover his own a$$.

My opinion only of course.

 

[sorrell skye]

The first loop on Canfield, they'll be marching in silence. They're going to do three loops.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

 

[Linda7NJ]

Missing my point, i dont mean all lol when i refer to learnt behavior, i am talking about MB peers, his environment etc. Not saying that his parents are rooting for him to get himself killed, but he is 18 years of age. Some mature quicker than others, whats the issue?

IMO criminal behavior has nothing to do with maturity. It has to do with a persons moral compass.
Mike Browns IMO was broken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bernina]

The link from the family's attorney has already been posted, but I'll go find it and post it again for you.

In the meantime, can you answer the following that is not dependent on that link?

1. OW eye socket was blown out. Who blew it out?____ Has the family's attorney denied that MB hit OW in the face? YES or NO?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hospital-swollen-face-deadly-altercation.html The source of the "orbital blowout" came originally from the Gateway Pundit. http://therightscoop.com/cnn-reports-officer-wilson-did-not-have-a-broken-eye-socket-after-altercation-with-michael-brown/
8. I can give you that is my opinion. I should have said "logic" as opposed to "fact". It is logical to assume that MB would have continued his assault. YES or NO. You're assuming "assault" vs. "major altercation" http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI...ranscripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../20/ng.01.html
9. If someone hits you in the face and you have a gun and they try to get it and there is a struggle for it and you are fighting with them for it, would you think your life was in danger? YES or NO But who said MB hit OW in the face? Or went directly for OW's gun? Could MB have been deflecting the gun if OW had drawn down on him?
10. Please provide an alternative recourse for OW. Post #497, this thread.

TIA and brb!

That should answer it.

 

[tlcya]

The first loop on Canfield, they'll be marching in silence. They're going to do three loops.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

I appreciate that this is a very well organized and planned march. It has a start point, a route, and end point. And I think the requirement that everyone wear the same T-shirt is probably wise because it makes it harder for trouble makers or rabble rousers to blend in and stir trouble which allows for the marchers to make their point without it being diluted or corrupted by idiocy. MOO

 

[sorrell skye]

"We want to make sure we're mobilized, organized, civilized." NAACP march.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

 

[Linda7NJ]

We are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions don't make up protocol.

If someone punches you in the eye socket and busts your eye socket and fights you for your gun, you don't reach for a tazer to protect yourself. You don't have to have a protocol in place to know this. That's just common sense.

Is it a tragedy that someone got shot and died? It is.

Is it a tragedy that MB made some really bad decisions that led to his death. It REALLY is.

Is it a tragedy that Officer Wilson now has to live with using his gun to kill a suspect? It REALLY, REALLY is.

I'd like those who question Officer Wilson's action to step back for a moment and evaluate facts & options, using logic, not emotion.

1. FACT: OW got punched by MB in eye socket, blew out OW eye socket. (This is a felony.)
2. FACT: MB not only TOUCHED OW gun but he tried to get it. (Also a felony.)
3. LOGIC: If MB was trying to get OW gun, he was trying to disarm OW for the purposes of killing OW.
4. LOGIC: If MB had gotten OW gun, he would have likely killed OW.
5. FACT: OW was able to stop MB from getting his gun.
6. FACT: OW had a hold of his gun (because he had stopped MB from getting it and gun, allegedly, went off.)
7. FACT: In order for OW to use a tazer (if available), OW would have had to properly re-holster his gun (which could have required exiting the car depending on how OW gun position and body position ended up in the struggle), retrieve his tazer, and prepare it for use.
8. FACT: During the course of #7, given MB's past 15-20 seconds of behavior, it is highly likely MB would have continued his assault on OW and very likely another gun struggle would have/could have occurred.
9. FACT: OW life was in danger.
10. FACT: Given the above facts & logic, the only recourse OW had was to use his gun to stop the suspect.

If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

Brilliant posts!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ladonna]

"We want to make sure we're mobilized, organized, civilized." NAACP march.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

Today's march doesn't seem to be on there.

 

[sorrell skye]

I appreciate that this is a very well organized and planned march. It has a start point, a route, and end point. And I think the requirement that everyone wear the same T-shirt is probably wise because it makes it harder for trouble makers or rabble rousers to blend in and stir trouble which allows for the marchers to make their point without it being diluted or corrupted by idiocy. MOO

Me, too. The marchers were also instructed to not respond to anyone not involved in the march - i.e. troublemakers - if they yell anything at them as they're marching,

 

[tlcya]

"We want to make sure we're mobilized, organized, civilized." NAACP march.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

Exactly, this is how you protest and march and express your constitutional right to be seen and heard.

 

[popsicle]

Today's march doesn't seem to be on there.

Mine stopped about 20 mins ago and it still is showing as off.

 

[Elley Mae]

I think he was referring to MB not being moved from the street for apprx. 5 hours.

Do you have a link to the "apprx. 5 hours" his body lay in the street. All I can find is "hours". TIA

 

[DeDee]

WARNING: GRAPHIC VIDEO CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE

With the moderator's permission, I am able to insert the video of the shooting. Thank you, LambChop. Also, I will include the news article posted by popsicle.

WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO AND STRONG LANGUAGE

[video=youtube;emTEkad58YA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emTEkad58YA[/video]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ting/14295137/

This post is only my informed opinion based on case study.

As some members here have stated, I also deeply respect the role of Law Enforcement; however, I have seen military type tanks with military gunners atop the tanks being utilized in cities that provokes the feeling that Police Departments have become too militarized. JMO The gov't wants to scam us with the claim that these are "surplus" supplies. MOO I am sincerely troubled by these developments. OMO

I heard about a protestor who was "gunned down" by Fergus*n police just a few blocks from where MB was shot and killed. The protestor stole two drinks from a store and set them down on the sidewalk as if urging someone to defy his actions. When FPD arrive, the protestor is ordered to remove his hands from his pockets. The protestor is heard saying several times "Go ahead. Shoot me." OMO

I was unable to locate a video of the incident on youtube but did not give up there. The video of the protestors death is posted in this article. It is a very graphic video. Also, in the news article it states that the funds for support of OW have surpassed the funds for MB. Please know that I am not soliciting funds from anyone. I merely thought it was an interesting observation. In fact, at the link below there is no opportunity offered to donate any money to either cause. OMO

Did I already claim the article contains a very graphic video of a protestor being shot? No taser was used. The protestor disobeyed policeman's orders yet was given ample time to obey commands. The Protestor instead, walked closer and closer to the LEO. I counted ten shots. JMO

<modsnip>

 

[bettybaby00]

Maybe he's not saying that's what happened because he doesn't know what happened.

Again, he was not there.


How exactly is he supposed to somehow have divine portal to talk to Michael Brown and get his account of what happened and then transmit it to all of us?

Does it not make sense that the family's attorney would not know everything that happened if Michael Brown, the person to tell him, is dead?

Would what he says even be allowed to come into a court of law during the trial? I don't think so, because how would the family attorney know what happened without being there? The prosecutor cannot call the family's attorney to come in and testify about what happened, because family attorney was not there.

Family attorney is NOT an eye or ear witness.

JMO.

Rereading your post...

Your bolded....

I think we both can agree that Parks wasn't at the scene of the shooting, yet he states, on TV...not during just one interview...but in more than one interview...

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, without question, we know that there was a major altercation at the car. There`s no question about that. So you`ll never hear me say there wasn`t a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI...ranscripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../20/ng.01.html

Why would he admit this if he didn't know it to be true?

Did God tell him? Probably not. There's only one source he could have gotten this information from, Dorian Johnson. Therefore, I'm gonna logically infer that the Brown's attorneys are fully aware of his official statement.
JMO