MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

[liz b.]

Addressing the "ruthless" comment made by Mr. Irwin's son's mother's family member.

Perhaps LE has contacted them (family of Dad's ex). When people break up and custody is being fought about, I can't imagine the person left without custody has happy feelings about it. Nor do I imagine does the family.

In a custody battle there is always a winner and a loser. The court opted to give Mr. Irwin full custody and the mother of the child is said by her family to live out of state.

I am not willing to look askance at Mr. Irwin over possible sour grapes regarding a lost custody battle for the child in question.

I am also willing to bet that LE knows the back story of this relationship and are judging what they are told accordingly, with all those facts in mind.

Unfortunately, we do not have those same facts.

Absolutely agree with you. IMO all exes would have been spoken to very quickly...MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Thanks. If this is what happened, an accidental death, I really question if the burning dumpster could have anything to do with it? I mean, if I accidentally killed my kid, there is no way I could do that, no matter what problem I was trying to solve. I think they would bury it, and nearby. MOO.

It is possible other evidence was burned, clothing, for example...if the fire is related.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Fox News
Julie Banderas Live:
Focus on parents' backyard

Captain: parents re-consented-we didn't do t backyard yesterday

But we saw them all over the back yard wearing hazmat suits??

 

[matou]

Unanswered questions:

Was Lisa able to crawl out of her crib? Had she done this before?

Did either of the boys sleepwalk?

Was it very unusual for one of the boys to sleep with his mom in her bed?

Could the boys unlock the front door easily? Were there several locks on the door?

I was thinking about it and having a lot of lights on is something a kid would do. To look for something, maybe a kitten? Did the boy unlock the door to look for the kitten and forget to lock it up again? Did he open up the windows looking for the kitten because he could hear it meowing? The only thing I can't explain away is the missing cell phones.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Unbelievable to me that LE hasn't contacted them. Picturing Jeremy as "ruthless" and it is giving me cold chills.

Still waters run deep.

I'm still on the fence....but, rumbling around in my head are that description of him ruthless in taking his other child from his mother...his demeanor in interviews, HE was the one to break off cooperation with the police, right?...he made the 911 call and in that call he told police about the busted screen...he is the one whose schedule was different than normal that night...so part of me just wondered if the police were trying so hard to get her to crack because they wanted her to roll on him...

Or not, who knows really?

 

[vlpate]

I think the custody issue with JI and him being "ruthless" about it could be interesting to explore. This may be the motive to stage a kidnapping after the accidental death - to avoid losing his son to the mother of the child because of their negligence with Lisa. MOO.

I was thinking more along the lines of payback by her. When someone ruthlessly takes a child from their mother, it can be brutal.

I wonder if she pays him child support?

 

[Tuffy]

It would be the screen-frame that was bent in enough so that the window did not close. When I say "screen", I mean the entire screen with frame. :blushing:

Sorry, Patty G. That's how I thought you meant, also. I was just commenting that the screen would have to have really been jacked to interfere with the sliding window.

 

[BeanE]

From that picture, it looks like the detective going in the window needs a leg-up from another person.

So, if it's possible, with the way the window was, for someone to get in that way (which mom and dad both said wasn't possible), they would additionally need another person or something to stand on.

The story just keeps getting more and more complicated.

 

[curiositycat]

As far as the screen goes, I wonder if the 8 year old might not have been trying to sneak out with friends, ect. at one time or another, it looks like someone wanted to try and put it back on. A kidnapper wouldn't have taken that time, IMHO

It would be more likely something a kid would do. As a child I had a friend over to spend the night, and we decided to sneak out and meet up with some other friends. I was 10 at the time, a very similar thing happened. Not to mention my red hinny when my mom found out.

Why would a kidnapper or burglar come in the front when the whole neighborhood could see them, wouldn't it be better to sneak around to the back and try to get in that way?

I tell ya' I don't believe anyone came in that window to get the baby, then navigated to the kitchen, to get the 3 cellphones. Really? Wouldn't they want to just grab the baby and get the heck out of dodge?

 

[cluciano63]

Are they trying to prove that one person alone could not have done this, if indeed the baby was taken?

 

[marycarney]

Thank you mentalsolstice. The interview recently linked upthread of the family of Debbie's ex said the reasons the divorce had not been pursued as yet were financial. The family members also said they like Debbie and found it very hard to imagine that she has anything to do with this situation. Sounds like the family is still on good terms with mom to my ear.

Pretty sure it is considered fraud to continue to claim someone as a dependent / eligible for medical insurance if they do not live with you (exception being a minor child who is the legal custody of the other parent).

Also - IIRC the family said that they 'couldn't wrap their heads around' mom being involved - NOT that they found it hard to imagine she was involved. To me their statement was more like "I need to reallllly think about this and consider all the angles". JMO

 

[mentalsolstice]

Thank you mentalsolstice. The interview recently linked upthread of the family of Debbie's ex said the reasons the divorce had not been pursued as yet were financial. The family members also said they like Debbie and found it very hard to imagine that she has anything to do with this situation. Sounds like the family is still on good terms with mom to my ear.

Yep, it's sad that these difficult decisions have to be made. I'm trying not to judge these people because of things in their life that have little relevance to this case.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

TY Elepher, that is news to me, and it answers a question I had about the window being left open... I have never heard anything about her being on the computer before...MOO

Mom said it herself last night on Judge Jeanine...she actually "stumbled" as she said it. Radar went up because I wondered if she may have posted she was home alone somewhere. Hence why I asked if anyone knows if the computers were removed from home?

 

[LotsaLatte]

In Tuffy's post #557 above (thank you for posting that photo!), is that a large window on the end/side of the house? This is the first time I've seen that side of the house (as you face the house, far right side).

I see no gate or fence connecting side of the house to neighbor fence. Why would anyone climb in a window or use a front door that is in full view of the street - to leave or to enter this home? Why not do that from the side or back (assuming that a side window even opens or wasn't locked, etc.) Not that I expect anything to make sense and I know that some crimes just don't make sense. I suppose a person that was in that home (visitor) could have unlocked the window ahead of time if they planned it out. I'm confused obviously and need more coffee.

It's just bothered me to no end that it's possible entry and/or exit may have been in full view of a street rather than "sneaking" around the house. I hope that made sense?

 

[Wishbone]

I am curiouse if the outside light was on (Jeremy said all the lights were on) It would not make sense for the outside light to be off and the inside lights to be on, would it? Now, that would be a pretty brazen perp to enter a brightly lit house and yard at the FRONT of the house where neighbors or anyone driving by could see them so well. Just too ODD to comprehend.

Seems to me that most people would leave the porch light on if they were expecting family to come home late at night. At least that's what I do..,....

 

[liz b.]

Shouldn't all of this have been done already? They should have never let media in that house if they weren't done. I know they may think of something later and go check it, but just now checking the window like this? Makes me wonder if they were just looking at mom and mom only.

I would think that a couple or more LEO's watched the interview last night...MOO And I wonder if there was a glaring inconsistency there MOO Concerning the windows and screens MOO Today's search could well be to let someone know that they caught the slip. I think things will go very quickly today...MOO

 

[Tuffy]

Shouldn't all of this have been done already? They should have never let media in that house if they weren't done. I know they may think of something later and go check it, but just now checking the window like this? Makes me wonder if they were just looking at mom and mom only.

Why didn't mom and dad insist that police scour the crime scene? I wouldn't let the press come traipsing through the place before the investigators. Why are they now re-consenting to a search a week later?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

How does one simply discard the body of their child to cover an accident? I personally will never be able to answer that question as I could not live with myself if I threw away my child to rot somewhere accident or not.

I wouldn't be able to do such a thing, either, but it does happen. If a parent feels responsible for having caused the death of a youngster, even if it was an accident, they are probably torn between an admission of guilt that might be suspect or trying to cover up the accidental death.

We saw this recently in the possible drowning death of Caylee Anthony. Maybe the child's death really was an accident: Casey panicked and decided to toss the child's body in a swamp rather than admit to negligence in her drowning. jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

It is possible other evidence was burned, clothing, for example...if the fire is related.

Yes - just added that to my post before I saw this! :seeya:

ETA:

Symptoms
Babies who are overdosed with Tylenol may show symptoms such as vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, irritability, appetite loss, excessive sweating, abdominal pain in the upper right area of the stomach and yellow eyes or skin. More severe, life-threatening overdose symptoms include seizures, coma, kidney failure, liver failure and heart problems. Tylenol overdose can also result in death.



Read more: About Tylenol Overdoses in Babies | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5218511_tylenol-overdoses-babies.html#ixzz1aJC6Tjtw

The clothes/diapers of the baby may have had evidence that could link it to being overdosed, and so they burned the clothes down the street. MOO. It would be interesting if the stuff taken from the landfill showed evidence of such.

 

[Mirage]

I heard "pocket", but they were vague, or the story was edited, at that point. The time of the 911 call would probably help verify how long it took him to find it.

They specifically said his work phone was in his pocket, although he didn't recall immediately that is where he'd put it... then he felt his pocket and was like "oh, its right here" then they used it to call 911.