MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #11

[IrishMist]

I promise..this will be my last post and I will continue reading about the lights--thing-LOL
How did the husband see a pushed in screen in the dark-did he notice it outside the house before he went in
or inside

I believe he went to shut the window, and it wouldn't close properly due to the screen frame being bent inwards.

 

[Pensfan]

I didn't see that about Debbie's father. Is there a link? Thanks...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7202816"]MO MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I think it is somewhere in this thread, but I can't find it quickly for you.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

A judge might want more proof to issue a warrant and so they came back to the house/area.

I doubt that very much. This is a major crime no matter which way you look at it. If baby was killed or died in that house...every judge is going to allow a search warrant....and if baby abducted...the same. Keep in mind...they've been in and out of the house all day today too...so it's entirely possible that all search warrants have already been signed.

 

[kai]

Don't the parents/loved ones usually get briefed by an FBI profiler on what to say and what not to say?

I wonder if these parents have been coached in that way.

I thought about that also except that the "lack of cooperation" keeps coming back to me. I don't know. Obviously the media isn't privy to all the facts either just as we aren't. Maybe Deborah and Jeremy ARE in contact with LE more and have been more than we thought all week.

I am forcing myself to step away from this one.

Prayers for Baby Lisa.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I think come Monday morning LE is going to go to a judge and request a search warrant for a home they have not yet been allowed access to. I believe they have probably interviewed the person(s) living in the home but were not allowed access to the inside of the home.

There are some things happening that give me this feeling.

1. The reenactment of breaking in through the window. It wasn't just done to see if it was possible to go through the window. It was done several times, using various methods with video being taken of it both inside and out. It was done to see what obstacles/objects would be disturbed inside the home and what part of the body would touch those obstacles.

1a. It's possible they have interviewed someone who has a visible bruise, scratch or small cut on their body and LE has noted it and is trying to determine if it could have come from entering the house through the window (hence the reenactment).

2. Cell phones may have continued to ping in the area and metal detectors are being used to completely clear the family's yard. Are these phones located in a neighbors house they haven't been allowed to search?

3. There may be something missing from whoever they suspect, a piercing, a metal button on a piece of clothing they were wearing, a snap, or a metal ring/clasp from shoes or boots etc. (I did see a quick video on the local iowa news this morning that showed someone from LE holding a plastic sealed specimen cup like you would give a urine sample in..they would hold the metal detector over the sealed cup and it would beep, they moved it away and the beeping would stop...they repeated the process several times before they placed the cup in the evidence van. The cup looked empty but there had to be something in it to cause the medal detector to beep.)

The weekend is being used to get all their ducks in a row before taking it before a judge.

Just kind of the vibe I am picking up from what has happened during the weekend. I also think this might be why the parents started to talk to LE again because the focus is on someone else now. Also might be why the parents are steering away from the media for a bit, so they do not say something they shouldn't on accident.

Once again, just my opinion.

More than thanks is needed for this post! Excellent deductions

 

[IrishMist]

Yes good points! Put a tail on them and watch where they are going and who they're talking to. Would it be better to follow them around a while, or take them in and have them clam up?

Especially if that person thinks the LE focus is on the mom.

 

[Miziree]

We are live on blog talk radio right now. Covering this case.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2011/10/10/websleuths-radio

Thank you for posting this! I've never listened in before. Cooking dinner and can't keep up with the thread here atm.

 

[Renea]

I have called Mrs. Irwin the Alpha dog in the past... but, now I must retract. I am pretty much the alpha dog in my family... as most women are... and there is no way in hell my husband would wake me up at 4am after being home all day with a sick 10 month old and two you young boys to ask me why a few lights were on in our house and a door was unlocked. He would check out the situation first.. make sure everything was okay... then go to bed... Also, almost everytime my husband is not home at night...one, if not both of my daughters sleep with me... my husband comes home... witnesses this... thinks it's cute and finds another bed to sleep in... or carries them to their bed... He does not wake me up to ask me why my children are in bed with me... which is something he also woke her up to ask...

 

[MissJames]

Forgive me for not knowing if you are a search and rescue volunteer or cadaver dog handler, Miss James. Do you know if the cadaver dogs would hit on the bathtub if Lisa drown in the bathtub, was found 5-10 minutes later, and then water was drained?

We have an Autism service dog for my son, that also tracks and I had to train to handle him.

I have no experience with cadaver dogs. My guess would be,unless there is a blood spill,no.

But as a parent who's son died,I also don't believe mom would have given up on the baby after 5 or 10 minutes,or even an hour. She would have called 911 and worked to get her baby breathing again.

This debate goes on in the Casey Anthony case. Parents don't assume their child cannot be saved .They try ,try and then beg the doctors to try again.
Unless it was intentional,no mom says "oh dear,baby's dead .Get me a garbage bag". They scream for help .

 

[IrishMist]

I doubt that very much. This is a major crime no matter which way you look at it. If baby was killed or died in that house...every judge is going to allow a search warrant....and if baby abducted...the same. Keep in mind...they've been in and out of the house all day today too...so it's entirely possible that all search warrants have already been signed.

We were talking about pressure on someone that may live nearby. And perhaps trying to find more forensics in the Irwin house to back them up.

 

[RJA00]

earlier i read somewhere that the neighbor was over the night baby Lisa disappeared
has that ever been proved ?

If they were over, was dinner served or any beverages served while they were there ?
just trying to come up with a reason mom didn't wake up or did the visitor bring any food or drinks with them

maybe the visitor computer should be checked and phone records

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

With all of the technology to connect troops with their families now it would be hard to 'fake' a baby.

Hypothetical:
boyfriend girlfriend break up. girlfriend a sociopath. boyfriend refuses all of her calls and emails, etc. finally at a breaking point she tells him that the reason she MUST talk to him is that she has his baby. He is stunned. What? Now he is due home and she needs a baby. Maybe she sent photos from web of other newborns as his...for that matter could photoshop herself into the photo very easily with websites like imikimi.com....maybe she didn't break the news to him until baby was "older" and that was the strategy she used to get him to take her calls? Maybe things got out of control and now she had to find a baby.

 

[Coldpizza]

Good evening all, haven't been able to check in much as we are moving. Has there been any significant movement today? Are we any closer to finding "pumpkin pie" today than last night? Did the lead in CA pan out? Is the teen still a topic?

Thanks to all that can add and feel like responding. Sorry just don't have time to read back.

 

[Cher352]

I haven't seen anything official. Someone who knows the layout of the house would be able to help us determine that. I can't tell from looking at the photo.

Even if the garage didn't access the home, I just wonder what other entries the teen had access to. Why would they give this teen a code to their garage? Did he work for them? Lingering questions.

This picture of the back of the house also shows a regular door on the first level and sliding glass doors on the lower level... Neither of these seem to fit with the one house layout posted several times on previous threads.

Wish we had a true layout of both floors.

 

[Melanie]

That thought just walked through my mind a few minutes ago. A 'hush kitten'. Just my own pondering amid the mental replay of 'where is this baby and why are we still running in place?'

It seems odd, doesn't it. I don't like the kitten either -- especially in bed with the 6 year old. Why that day?

Too many things going on (picking up from Shelby's fantastic time line):

new job for dad; first night away
Lisa ill
new kitty
6 year old in bed with mom
another boy sleeping by himself
baby monitor on

Daddy comes home:
front door unlocked
lots of lights on
dad checked boys room first
didn't check on lisa
went to computer room and noticed window open and tried to shut the window, screen popped inwards so he couldn't
went to deb's room and said why are all the lights on (but doesn't ask why the front door is unlocked)?
THEN they go to check on baby lisa

wonky wonky!! :crazy:

 

[norest4thewicked]

Why does she keep saying St. Louis (on the Websleuths online radio)????

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

No Shelby. WOOPS. She was TOLD she failed it....doesn't mean she failed it. That could be a tactic. NO POLICE ever stated she failed it publicly. They told HER she failed it...again...she could have passed for all we know.

 

[panthera]

With all of the technology to connect troops with their families now it would be hard to 'fake' a baby.

Agree, and I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, however did include it as it had been discussed earlier.

 

[Guardian_Angel]

Everytime I see the topic of the cell phones, I can't help think as many have suggested it may be someone the family knows, eg, knew the Dad was working the night shift. Is it possible they also knew they didn't have a landline, and took the phones on the way out to bide some time before they realized Lisa was missing, and the police were called.

With reference to the window, can anyone tell by the pictures the posters have graciously provided us, what is under that window, grass flower bed? and were footprints checked in that area prior to them re inacting.

These are just my thoughts as I try to figure out if the parents are invloved or not, like so many others, I have no idea at this point. I watch vids and I can't believe she had anything to do with it, hearbreaking, then on the other hand, she stumbles to answer questions, back to the other hand, who can possibly think clearly during something like this.

 

[ami]

Oh gosh, I really don't agree with Lillian Glass about this. But then again, I'm not ready to think the Mom is guilty just yet.