MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #2

[JeannaT]

I keep thinking of Sabrina Aisenberg, who has also never been found.

 

[SarahW]

What about the dad's ex? Didn't she live in the house at one time? Maybe jealousy?

THe Dad has an ex? I saw that address listing tied to Phillip Netz (guessing brother of Deborah) with one "associated name" that happens to be Jeremy Irwin. Would have to dig up property transfer records - I know the house was foreclosed on (unrelated owner) in the early aughts - there is a court case online about that foreclosure. It might have been possible to pick up the house cheaply at auction and use it as a rental property.

Do you know for a fact that Jeremy had a live-in girlfriend at that address? Has he been married before? I am still not certain that Lisa Irwin's parents have married, or are even free to marry at this point in time.

 

[Lera213]

If I'm not mistaken LE during the presser stated "If you thought it, we already thought it and checked it out several times"

I'm sure they have thought of everything we have so far and like us, drawing blanks!

This is why they probably had the parents come in and went over everything they've done and spoke to in the past month. Doctor's appointments, shopping habits and such.

 

[SarahW]

I read something earlier today about sleeping arrangements in the house. Baby in one bedroom, each boy in a separate bedroom. Presumably there is another bedroom for the parents. Is that house really a 4 bedroom house- it doesn't look that large.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

I read the boys shared a single separate bedroom

 

[In da Middle]

What about the dad's ex? Didn't she live in the house at one time? Maybe jealousy?

I think Dad has several ex's. The one I am familiar with, I don't see that happening. If anything, maybe a little mischief or inconvenience matters, but not criminal anything. Besides she still lives in the area and could easily be checked out. I still have events that I see her and her child very frequently, as our children have activities in common. I will probably run into her at an event this weekend.

 

[swanniee11]

THe Dad has an ex? I saw that address listing tied to Phillip Netz (guessing brother of Deborah) with one "associated name" that happens to be Jeremy Irwin. Would have to dig up property transfer records - I know the house was foreclosed on (unrelated owner) in the early aughts - there is a court case online about that foreclosure. It might have been possible to pick up the house cheaply at auction and use it as a rental property.

Do you know for a fact that Jeremy had a live-in girlfriend at that address? Has he been married before? I am still not certain that Lisa Irwin's parents have married, or are even free to marry at this point in time.

I was thinking that the house was in Phillip Netz's name but maybe Jeremy is buying it from him or renting. IIRC, he has lived there for 2 yrs.

also, that garage in the back of the house, does it have electricity or running water or anything? (asking locals if they may know)

 

[Shelby1]

Sigh, not much new to add to the timeline.


Lisa Irwin Timeline

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house. UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct. 3620 block of North Lister 64117

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the mothers children from another relationship)

Father is electrician that works nights. Just started job on this night.--Jeremy

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

 

[In da Middle]

Thanks for your on the spot reportage.

I read something earlier today about sleeping arrangements in the house. Baby in one bedroom, each boy in a separate bedroom. Presumably there is another bedroom for the parents. Is that house really a 4 bedroom house- it doesn't look that large.
Thanks.

It could be, but the 4th bedroom would have been in the basement (MOO). This neighborhood was built as 3 bedroom, single story housing. The basements were unfinished, poured concrete, containing the furnace, water heater and washer/dryer hookups. Many have finished or semifinished their basements and a lot of them have included extra bedrooms. Their basement is also shared with a garage with the entrance to it in the back. These are small houses! Not tiny but they are small, but nice.

 

[cluciano63]

I think that if the "man with a baby" story was factual or connected, LE would have said they are following specific leads, rather than more or less saying they don't have any leads...JMO

 

[tiredblondy]

I didn't know it had been classified as a homicide, last I heard it was just a suspicious death. But I am not 100% sure.

Here's a little blurb from Alonzo Washington's blog. For those not local, he's a big crime activist in KC. It sounds like he thinks her death is drug-related.
http://www.myspace.com/alonzo_washington/blog/544457702

Sorry for going off-topic. I just don't think this woman's death has anything to do with Baby Lisa.

I just wanted to throw this out but this person,in my opinion, could look like a guy and could have been mistaken for a man late at night.

If this was an abduction for hire it would be a way of getting rid of the only witness.

If this was drug related maybe it was to be a swap for drugs???

I've only read back a few pages so forgive me if this has been posted before.

 

[nursebeeme]

I wonder if the family has a dog/pets? just wondered/thinking out loud

 

[ClaireNC]

It could be, but the 4th bedroom would have been in the basement (MOO). This neighborhood was built as 3 bedroom, single story housing. The basements were unfinished, poured concrete, containing the furnace, water heater and washer/dryer hookups. Many have finished or semifinished their basements and a lot of them have included extra bedrooms. Their basement is also shared with a garage with the entrance to it in the back. These are small houses! Not tiny but they are small, but nice.

As somebody else mentioned ^up-thread, I interpreted press reports as meaning that the two boys were sharing a bedroom that was separate from the room that the baby girl slept in. The house looks like a typical three bedroom ranch, so the two boys probably shared a bedroom, the parents in another and the precious baby girl in a third.

Just to add my opinion, from the pictures it really looks as if this little baby girl was adored by her parents and siblings. Just the fact that the mother knew and reported a small bug bite near an ear, shows that she was being attended to. I think I am a great Mom, but I'm not sure that I noticed every bug bite on my babies, when they were babies.

 

[wfgodot]

Here's the KC Star website's newest article, covering the press conference at length:

Parents plead for return of child
Posted on Wed, Oct. 05, 2011 02:58 PM

---
“Honestly, to have a massive amounts of citizens combing the woods where we are would not help,” [Captain Steve] Young said. He said police want to maintain the integrity of any crime scene they might come across.

“Right now our manpower is adequate based on what we know,” Young said.

Police are still getting some leads, Young said. But none have really led to anything hard that police can work from.

“The only thing we know absolutely is that there should have been a 10-month-old in that house and there wasn’t,” Young said. “We are doing everything we can to find that child.”

more at link above

 

[mysticrose]

So dad had just started this night job that night ? Definately someone who knows this family............

 

[In da Middle]

I was thinking that the house was in Phillip Netz's name but maybe Jeremy is buying it from him or renting. IIRC, he has lived there for 2 yrs.

also, that garage in the back of the house, does it have electricity or running water or anything? (asking locals if they may know)

The house is recorded in Dad's name only. He has lived there almost 10 years (bought in 2002). Mom has been around for around 2 years. I don't know when she "officially" moved in. The Netz name is associated with Mom (maiden name?). Yes, the garage at least did have power running to it years ago. The (I think) original owner had an inground pool and years later filled it in and placed his shop in its place and it has power to it then. I just haven't noticed if they still have it there or not.

 

[MsFacetious]

I keep thinking of Sabrina Aisenberg, who has also never been found.

Absolutely... Sabrina was my first thought...
It also made me think, does the reaction of the parents really totally determination the direction of the case?

If they are GREAT actors do the cops immediately and only look at an abduction?
If they are innocent but horrible socially and look guilty, do they assume guilt and miss an abduction?
The reaction in this case is SO different and I really wonder why, what is the difference?

However, I had also thought of then 4 month old, now 8 month old baby Ramy...
Ramy was actually abducted in the middle of the night from the same room as her sleeping parents.
Shades of Sabrina.
She was found ALIVE however and had been taken by her paternal Grandmother (the mother and mother in law from he!!)
Grandma tried to pass her off as her own child.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18162574?nclick_check=1

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137135&page=5

Where is the family of Lisa? Are they ALL there helping?
Or is there an Aunt, Grandmother... someone like that who isn't there?
Have they all been contacted?

Abducting a baby 10 months old to keep as your own is a bit odd... unless you are faking an adoption.
Maybe an adoption fell through, just like women abduct when they lose a pregnancy?
Even then, the younger the child the more they change... the less likely they are to be recognized.

However, an abduction like this, of a child this age under these circumstances by a sex offender would also be pretty unusual.
Of course, an abduction from a house in the middle of the night is just unusual in general...
Very odd...

 

[tiredblondy]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't the COD of the woman found be released if it's not possibly related to this case?

 

[cluciano63]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't the COD of the woman found be released if it's not possibly related to this case?

We have a lot of cases here where we still have never heard cause of death, after many many months...

 

[cluciano63]

NG's FB page all filled up with MJ and her dancing and photos of her kids...

 

[peeples]

I wonder how long dad has been out of work until that night...
I wonder if he upset someone somehow and they have been biding their time will he went back to work....
Maybe this person wasn't sneaking but brazen and had a knife or gun with in case mom DID wake up and they got lucky that mom didn't......