MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #5

[saba]

Really? Ask Kevin Fox about that. He was thrown into jail, where HE was raped and beaten by inmates, after falsely confessing to molesting and murdering his 3 year old baby Riley. His "confession" was extracted after tens of hours of interrogation, with no lawyer and no way for him to leave the interview room.

Don't believe him? How about the families of these victims - names that I am sure you will recognize: Polly Klass, Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Dugard, Jessica Lunsford, Shawn Devlin, Shasta and Dylan Groene. In each of these cases, the families were in the crosshairs of LE. I mention these particular cases because in EACH of them, it has been proven that the families were innocent. There are literally THOUSANDS of other cases where there simply is not enough evidence, but the family is still being harassed and stalked by LE, in some cases many years later.

The interview techniques used are the same strategy that are well documented as being psychological brainwashing techniques. Some innocent people will succumb to the techniques, some will not. But when a person is under the most severe emotional stress imaginable (such as having your CHILD missing) the brain is unreliable. There is no way to predict who will crack under the pressure and who will not. But the second someone cracks, it is all over. Once a confession (or semi--confession) is reached, it's over. Even a confession from the true killer will not always supersede the "confession" of a family member - even if the "confession" is immediately retracted.

I have no doubt that LE has good motivations. I don't believe that any of them deliberately try to pin a murder on an innocent person. But they have the same statistics that you do. MOST cases are perpetrated by family members. MOST. Not all. But when all other "reasonable" thoughts are exhausted, naturally they will re-explore the family. And it is no long leap to go from: there is no evidence that someone else did it" to "they MUST have done it".

So, feel free to think what you want. No one can stop you. But having some compassion for a grieving family until and unless they are actually proven to have harmed their child, can never be the wrong approach. And, having some healthy skepticism about LE is just self-preservation, in my opinion.

I do feel free to think what I want. I also have compassion for this family. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[tlcya]

my impression of mom's demeanor on GMA this morning in a word

Shellshocked.

 

[luckyme]

I can't believe LE wouln't have compassion. Are they that tough on parents of missing children?

I bet you! The mom said they were trying to implicate her. moo

 

[hollye]

How old are their boys who also live in the home? Just wondering if the boys know anything.

As I understand correctly, they are 6 & 8yos.

 

[hollye]

vlpate ~ It is against TOS to quote FB pages.

 

[luckyme]

Isnt the fbi helping in this case? wouldnt they help advise LE on what to say and not to say?

 

[tlcya]

Will be praying today that LE and parents find a way to come together for the good of baby Lisa.

 

[Soulmagent]

Do the parents own or rent their home? Any history of DHS calls to the home by anyone saying the baby was not being cared for?

Affairs? The parents listed a dozen suspects ,do they know that many people who they could write they would think to list like that.

I wouldnt be able to name but one or two people who I would even question enough to write on a list and even then one of them would be a very hard to say I thought a slight maybe but I would. 12 people would be impossible as I moved though my contacts and friends.

Not saying I think they are hiding anything just wondering what happened.

 

[elepher50]

Isnt the fbi helping in this case? wouldnt they help advise LE on what to say and not to say?

Helping but they do not have the lead in the case.

 

[tlcya]

Isnt the fbi helping in this case? wouldnt they help advise LE on what to say and not to say?

I don't think the local LE is bound to follow their advice. I believe the FBI is there on invitation, to assist but from all appearances, local LE is running the show.

 

[oh_gal]

I can't believe LE wouln't have compassion. Are they that tough on parents of missing children?

Were they playing "good cop/bad cop"? I'm sure there have been many studies done, and many training sessions attended on when and how to make someone "crack."

I can even imagine what would take place during an interview like that. Are you asked the same questions, over and over again, but asked in a slightly different way, so they can see if your answers are consistent? I don't know how much of that I could take.

I didn't really understand what the parents said in answer to Matt Lauer's question about whether or not the police were being mean to them -- even now, I can't recall what they said, except that their answer didn't make any sense to me -- like they said, "In the first inteview, they were really mean, but in this one, they were really nice," which didn't seem to jive with them no longer cooperating. Anyone recall this?

 

[elepher50]

Do the parents own or rent their home? Any history of DHS calls to the home by anyone saying the baby was not being cared for?

Affairs? The parents listed a dozen suspects ,do they know that many people who they could write they would think to list like that.

I wouldnt be able to name but one or two people who I would even question enough to write on a list and even then one of them would be a very hard to say I thought a slight maybe but I would. 12 people would be impossible as I moved though my contancts and friends.

Not saying I think they are hiding anything but wondering what happened.

House owned by JI since about 2002. No negative history on the parents. Neighbours and locals on WS say that the children looked well cared for, playing in yard (older ones) and that they saw nothing amiss.

Both parents have had previous relationships.

 

[shefner]

Geez Louise...this thread has been flying so fast that it took me forever to catch up on reading.

I don't think we know all the facts yet. I want to believe the parents. I want to think the FBI and LE know what they are doing. Tough spot....tough call.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

One thing that interests me about the floor plan is because one of our locals, can't recall the name, is familiar with the neighborhood and stated that all the homes have similar fp's. Maybe only 4 different plans in the neighborhood.

This makes me wonder that whoever took Lisa lives in the neighborhood and is familiar with the floor plans of the homes.

moo

wm

 

[elepher50]

I don't think the local LE is bound to follow their advice. I believe the FBI is there on invitation, to assist but from all appearances, local LE is running the show.

Maybe it is time that FBI took over the case - just a thought.

 

[TxLady2]

Yes...I agree with the "make sure LE knows I'm here for you, do what you need" But we do not know what transpired. They may have been called to come back to the PD station again and both mom and dad felt...enough is enough..we've told you all and we are done with this! Meaning...we are not coming in ..not necessarily meaning we are no longer going to cooperate with PD...just needed some peace and quiet and rest to regroup their emotions and bodies and wanted PD to stop "wasting time" asking questions we already answered and start going out and looking for our baby!" That would be the emotional thought patterns for the parents...even though hundreds of officers were out looking.

You're absolutely right. Sometimes LE can really be pushy with parents. All it takes is one detective who thinks something isn't right with them... or maybe with no leads, they just keep pounding on the parents because they have no one else to put the blame on. A parent who is already upset and scared that their child is going to be found murdered will naturally resent having to sit through the 3rd or 4th round of questions when most of them have been asked and answered already.

Also, people who are going through this don't always think logically or reasonably. Your baby has been kidnapped, but instead of going out and trying to look for her, cops are pounding you and insinuating you're guilty and you did something to her. Kind of hard to stay calm and not get upset if you're being accused of something you didn't do. Everybody keeps saying that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to get upset about. NOT TRUE... if you're innocent, yet LE and half the public keep accusing you of harming your child, you're going to lose your cool eventually and stop talking to them. And if they keep hammering at you, then you've got no recourse but to hire a lawyer and let him/her stop the badgering. Reason goes out the window when you're thrown into a situation like this, and people don't always react the way we would expect.

That said, these parents could be guilty as sin, I don't know. But nobody knows that just yet, not even LE. Wait and see, that's my motto.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

How old are their boys who also live in the home? Just wondering if the boys know anything.

6 and 8 years old.

 

[elepher50]

One thing that interests me about the floor plan is because one of our locals, can't recall the name, is familiar with the neighborhood and stated that all the homes have similar fp's. Maybe only 4 different plans in the neighborhood.

This makes me wonder that whoever took Lisa lives in the neighborhood and is familiar with the floor plans of the homes.

moo

wm

Or someone who has lived in the house before and knew where light switches/bedrooms/maybe an outside hidden key were?

 

[FairM]

How old are their boys who also live in the home? Just wondering if the boys know anything.

I was thinking the same - I wonder if they have been interviewed? the younger boy i read was sleeping in with his mum that night.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Not sure if this has been posted yet..

Lisa’s father, Jeremy Irwin, says he has offered to take a lie detector test, but that police say that’s not necessary.

Snipped: http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...an-statement/2011/10/07/gIQAdCD1RL_story.html