MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

[angela]

I remember a case from constitutional law where a man fathered a child with a married woman and the child was legally considered the child of her spouse, and not her biological father. It was from the 70s, so I'm sure things have changed since then, but that could be cause for that idea.

In Ohio, that law is still on the books. You have to prove the husband is not the father even if you both know for a fact he isnt.

 

[sorrell skye]

Why stack storage boxes in the crib, if staging a "darling nursery"?

I agree.

If I was staging a "darling nursery" for media impact, I would arrange the baby's stuffed animals in the crib - not storage bins & a baby bathtub.

 

[TGIRecovered]

HatesSociopaths, I don't think that link qualifies as mainstream media. JMO, but it is probably a good idea to delete it before anyone quotes it and look for something from a newspaper or TV station.

Also, I think you need a link to explain why you believe this death is suspicious and connected to Baby Lisa. I'm not a mod, just trying to help!

 

[kantoo]

I thought that was somewhat of an archaic term to be using.....by the 10 o'clock report she may very well be a "fallen woman"!!!! I hope that station gets LOTS of calls from LOTS of women who find that term insulting.

...followed by my mother's term "a woman of the night"

 

[momtective]

Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

Screen cap from the above link...interesting to say the least.

 

[saba]

I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.

hmm... In most states, if a child is born during a marriage, the husband is presumed legally to be the father. He has to support the child even if mom was playing around. Doesn't matter if they live together or not. The actual or putative father can take some steps to establish paternity, with varying degrees of success. For example, if Debbie wanted to place Lisa for adoption, I think in most states she would need to notify S Bradley, and maybe Jeremy if he is on the birth certificate. jmo

 

[Mojen]

If your wife was here she might say something like this...the law makes certain presumptions - for example, innocent till proven guilty. That obviously doesn't mean its set in stone that a defendant is innocent, just that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The paternity of a child born to a married woman follows the same principle - its presumed legally to be the husband's child unless and until evidence is offered to the contrary. If the mother puts someone else's name as father on the birth cert with no corresponding challenge from her husband, that is evidence to the contrary, and the default legal presumption is over turned.

Not in the State of Missouri. A Court has to make a Finding and Order in the Judgment of Dissolution of Marriage absolving the husband of being the child's bio father.

 

[Donjeta]

So, you don't think that LE could have stripped the entire crib (considering that we know investigators had been seen taking out bags of bedding) and then when the reporters and cameras came in they wanted to take photos of the room but did not want to show a bare crib, so they "fixed it up" just for the cameras? I do.

They could easily have done that but I don't understand why they stacked the boxes there if it was staged for the photos. It looks more like they're staging the family packing away the baby stuff being done with her than staging a lonesome crib from which a baby was heartbreakingly stolen.

 

[abstr]

Maybe you could look for an obit or an MSM article from the time that the death occurred. :twocents:

Someone was kind enough to post an obit. for me a few pages back when I asked if Lisa was named after her Grandmother.

 

[Jacie Estes]

JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.

 

[southern_comfort]

TY for that link, BeanE.

I seriously don't get what this whole so-called "checkered past" (as the reporter called it) deal is. So DB is still married to her ex - is that really a "checkered past"???? I don't think so.

Good grief - I think some of these reporters need to get a grip.

Well, IMO, it's all relative. Believe it or not, there are large segments of society who would look upon this situation with a severely raised eyebrow as the "Jerry Springer" theme song plays in the background.

 

[norest4thewicked]

IMO I am not sure I could stay 11 hours, I would probably be getting quite anxious and come unglued, if I were innocent I would be thinking precious time was being wasted.

IMO I think the parents may not be telling the entire story but I hope I am wrong. I too want this child to be found soon and safe, perhaps with someone who wanted a child and could not have one. I can hope.....

Well, I know for a FACT that I could sit and answer questions until I physically dropped if my child was missing and that there was ANY chance at all of finding the child by what I was able to tell them. Not to say that I wouldn't go unglued several times during the interview, but I'd do it because I believe that my discomfort would take a minor role compared to my missing child.

Also, for someone to believe that time was being wasted just means that they don't know LE procedure. The investigator questioning you is not the only person on the case.

But, we are all different and that's what makes the world go round!

 

[Cappuccino]

I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, investigations like this are not like CSI Miami and need to be solved in an hour. I think that a break during 11 hours is totally needed, but how do we know that they didn't have a break? A lot of people think a break is to go home and take a nap. No...they should have received a chance to go to the bathroom and get something to eat...and I bet that they did.

I'm not naive enough to think CSI Miami is anything other than a piece of fiction, which incidentally, I hate and never watch. These parents said they were questioned for 11 hours without a break, and LE has not contradicted them. The husband asked after 11 hours to let them go home and take a break, and given Jerry Hobbs' experience, I think he was wise.

 

[grandmaj]

Well there are about 5 moderators sitting in this thread right now and it has been said repeatedly that we are not sleuthing out any other crime rumored to being related to this case based on a rumor that was deleted earlier. Rumors do not belong on WS.

Don't continue along this path.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Oh, totally. Maybe I misunderstood your posts, or maybe I'm mixing you up with another poster, but I thought you were under the impression that the photograph was a representation of how the child's room was BEFORE it was searched. I was just pointing out that police don't tend to clean up after themselves when they've searched a room, that's all.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, and as for the media I totally agree with you.

Easy to do in this fast moving thread! Heck, it never hurts to ask with me because half the time I'm doing 20 things at once and get confused...lol

I'm a multi-tasker!

 

[kantoo]

JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.

And i've heard a lot of grumbling about them not wanting to talk to the local media. Ha! No wonder

 

[vlpate]

After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?

 

[Cher352]

JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.

No wonder the Irwins don't want to talk to Local New only National.

 

[southern_comfort]

I posted a link to this on another thread. Deborah went through the State of Missouri to get child support.

If or when Deborah and Sean get divorced, Jeremy will have to be named as a third party in the divorce. There will be a count in the divorce petition specifically addressing the paternity of Lisa and naming Jeremy her bio father.

Just to clarify... She sought CS for baby L, from SB?

 

[SarahW]

I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, investigations like this are not like CSI Miami and need to be solved in an hour. I think that a break during 11 hours is totally needed, but how do we know that they didn't have a break? A lot of people think a break is to go home and take a nap. No...they should have received a chance to go to the bathroom and get something to eat...and I bet that they did.

Sleep deprivation only breaks a person down, which is exactly what police were attempting - it is NOT the best method to gain information, it is a method to wear down the interrogated.

A break for rest and sleep is appropriate.