MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

[kai]

Sigh... Checking in for the first time today. I prayed hard that the title would say "Found Alive" but it doesn't. I am so sad for this baby girl. Hugs to all of you who have kept up on today's news. Off to read a bit...

 

[MyBelle]

..she said something like ----that's how she likes to spend time with her child.

..weird though, that jeremy would ask why the 5 year old was in bed with her ??? ( if this is something she does usually.)

..or was she just allowing him in there, b/c jeremy was gone for the night?

I think the boy was in her bed to either calm him down because he heard the commotion or to be a barrier to Jeremy, who would come home tired from work and expect to go to bed without lifting and carrying her son back to his own bed.

I think something serious was going on between this couple before Lisa went missing. Reminds me of Kyron's case.

JMO

 

[pferrin]

The "how" of any scenario involving the mother is the problem for me.

Did she leave her two sons while she ran out to the dump?

Discover that in a big fight or in an overdose, she had killed her daughter, and somehow - no evidence how - contacted her brother to help, and no one saw his car, and the boys slept through everything, and he's flunked a polygraph too?

I mean, please help out here with what *could* have happened, realistically, in terms of body disposal of this child - if she did NOT drive off with an abductor. I am genuinely interested in people saying what they think could actually have happened. Without a magic carpet or ESP to the brother. Is there a fourth cell phone on which she called him?

Because I'm just not seeing a scenario in which the dogs wouldn't bark, the kids wouldn't wake up (and tell the cops about it), and the neighbors wouldn't be alerted to a car pulling in and out in the middle of the night.

There is a listing with the phone company for a landline at this addy for JI.

If that phone was used to call brother locally would that call be traceable?

If the brother was parked down on the river it would not be a long walk back to her house then take baby back to his car.

Deb could have done cleanup necessary. ..I am not saying that this happened..but it could have happened this way.

 

[Peliman]

But were they cadaver dogs....or just search dogs? I learned from another thread that there are differences in the kinds of dogs that are brought to the scene.

Cadaver dogs are trained to search for dead humans. Search dogs are trained to track live scent.

Found this little tidbit and also read the parents have again met with LE since they were said to not be cooperating. How true everything is, I donno.

More than 300 investigators took up the search for baby Lisa - using tracking dogs, horse-mounted patrols, helicopters and taking to ropes to rappel down steep slopes.

Parents Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin begin speaking to investigators again

The couple met with police on Saturday for the first time since officers said they had stopped cooperating with the investigation on Thursday.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stioned-disappearance-baby.html#ixzz1aFhMbXmq

 

[tlcya]

I thought I ran across a physic part of this site, anyone have a link? Just wondering what may be going on there.

Sorry myre, we do not have a psychic area. There used to be astrology threads but I believe those have been discontinued.

 

[shefner]

To quote Churchill, 'It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key'. He was talking about Russia but this is much more complicated than that.

Love the quote. Very apropos.

 

[3doglady]

Sadly, I thought that too. Polly Klaas and the slumber party, Caylee Anthony.

I lived near Polly Klaas and Jaycee Dugard when they were abducted. A lot of suspicion was directed at the parents, especially Jaycee's stepfather. We know how those two cases turned out. I'm holding out hope that the mom is innocent and Lisa will be found alive.

 

[lauriej]

Decomp starts immediately. HRD dogs can pick up scent on surfaces that have come in contact with a deceased just minutes after death, and for no longer than 5-10 minutes.

I wish we knew which kind of K-9's were used.

..i don't believe we've seen the use of cadaver dogs..( in looking for an article )


More than 300 law enforcement officers have been involved in the search. Authorities have conducted three shoulder-to-shoulder searches in woods near the home and have deployed police dogs several times.

“Unfortunately, none of those have really led us anywhere,” Young said.
On Wednesday, FBI personnel in protective clothing gathered original scents from the house so they would have something for specially trained dogs to track. Those dogs started working late Wednesday morning, Young said.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/05/3190150/as-search-continues-parents-plead.html#ixzz1aFiRa95k

 

[bessie]

JI didn't say all the lights in the house were on. It was never said that bedroom lights were on. He was talking about what he saw when he entered the house.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/0...rents-missing-baby-cooperative/#ixzz1aFdHKmmA

Thanks, Jeannie. Please excuse my ignorance. I rushed to catch up tonight, and somewhere I read "all" lights. Most is not all, but it still raises questions.

 

[vlpate]

...wouldn't you think JI and DB would be insisting on knowing about the call that was made from their home at 2:30 am?? I'd be all over them to find out who was calling or being called.....that would be a HUGE clue to who took my baby.............if, of course, I didn't make the call.

 

[shefner]

I think we are getting to a very touchy place in these threads. Sleuth and discuss the facts as we know them and the comments by the parents . But we are getting a tad cranky and snotty in some of our remarks about the parents who are not yet named a suspect. We don't need to be snarky that part is tiresome.

Go ahead and discuss the facts and contemplate based on our own life experiences but lets not get snarky in our remarks please. THANKS

Post lands at random.

So sorry to all if I have been guilty of this. I am getting tired. I'm sure we all are. I will re-examine my comments. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Mandy113]

The "how" of any scenario involving the mother is the problem for me.

Did she leave her two sons while she ran out to the dump?

Discover that in a big fight or in an overdose, she had killed her daughter, and somehow - no evidence how - contacted her brother to help, and no one saw his car, and the boys slept through everything, and he's flunked a polygraph too?

I mean, please help out here with what *could* have happened, realistically, in terms of body disposal of this child - if she did NOT drive off with an abductor. I am genuinely interested in people saying what they think could actually have happened. Without a magic carpet or ESP to the brother. Is there a fourth cell phone on which she called him?

Because I'm just not seeing a scenario in which the dogs wouldn't bark, the kids wouldn't wake up (and tell the cops about it), and the neighbors wouldn't be alerted to a car pulling in and out in the middle of the night.

I don't want to believe either parent had anything to do with this. Maybe I missed it, be we still don't have any kind of timeline for that day's events before Mom put Lisa to bed. Without knowing the last time anyone outside of the household saw Lisa, we don't really know when she went missing. IMO

I've seen the comments about the birthday party. I'm just a little surprised if that's the last known time Lisa was seen by others.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Sadly, I thought that too. Polly Klaas and the slumber party, Caylee Anthony.

JonBenet too. I never noticed that before.

 

[tlcya]

...wouldn't you think JI and DB would be insisting on knowing about the call that was made from their home at 2:30 am?? I'd be all over them to find out who was calling or being called.....that would be a HUGE clue to who took my baby.............if, of course, I didn't make the call.

We don't know what parents have discussed with LE. We have only what LE says and what parents say, none of whom seem to be on the same page right now and none of whom is discussing any 2:30 am phone call or even confirming if one exists.

 

[Peliman]

..i don't believe we've seen the use of cadaver dogs..( in looking for an article )

“Unfortunately, none of those have really led us anywhere,” Young said.
On Wednesday, FBI personnel in protective clothing gathered original scents from the house so they would have something for specially trained dogs to track. Those dogs started working late Wednesday morning, Young said.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/05/3190150/as-search-continues-parents-plead.html#ixzz1aFiRa95k

What we don't know are the conditions the dogs were trying to track. The dogs track skin cells but if the baby left the house swaddled and carried, it could prove difficult.

 

[vlpate]

I lived near Polly Klaas and Jaycee Dugard when they were abducted. A lot of suspicion was directed at the parents, especially Jaycee's stepfather. We know how those two cases turned out. I'm holding out hope that the mom is innocent and Lisa will be found alive.

I think about the Van Dams - Westerfield case - and how they were vilified...the difference in all of these is cooperation.

Why are they talking mostly to media? Where are their sons? I think I'd want my kids around me when my baby has been kidnapped.

Nothing makes sense.

 

[grandmaj]

So sorry to all if I have been guilty of this. I am getting tired. I'm sure we all are. I will re-examine my comments. Thanks for the reminder.

It was no one post by anyone. We are all just glued to having news and it gets tense. The cranky posts are generally what lead to problems. So far so good this has been a good discussion in these threads.

Friendly reminder........ xoxoxoxo

 

[boston_baby]

Hi everyone,
I am a REALLY infrequent poster. I don't tend to have time to WS except when a certain case catches my eye.

Anyway, as the parent of two young children myself, something is bothering me. It's probably trivial, but I find it very strange nonetheless.

Why is the official description of the child saying 30 lbs? My 18 month old, who is a BIG girl (high %ile compared to other kids her age), is only 25lbs. My son was a little heavier, but still nowhere near 30 lbs at 10m.

30 lbs. makes ZERO sense. Even 20 lbs is a big kid at 10m old.

I guess one of the things that bothers me about this is that you'd think the parents would know their child's size for a few reasons:

1. Because infant medication goes by weight, so you have to keep general tabs on their weight, even if not EXACT.

2. Because most kids have a ~9m pediatrician check-up appt., so a freshly measured weight would be in their memory, you'd think (unless they aren't providing standard medical care, that is).

3. Because the sizes in children's clothing corresponds to certain height-weight ranges. If they are publicizing her as 30 lbs yet she wears size 12m clothes, it's immediately clear that the weight is not possible.

Anyway, even though it's a small detail, it just seems weird and makes me wonder how in tune people surrounding the baby and the case overall actually are.

 

[Knox]

I have a Boston Terrier who has barked very little...she has probably barked 10 times in her life and those are brief....like if someone walks up to the door and startles her...otherwise nada....doesn't matter if all the dogs in the neighborhood bark not her...now she will whimper,lol. I used to wonder if something was wrong with her vocal cords until she finally barked...and when she does it is just a short bark...no woof woof woof here,lol.

I have two BT's, both love to bark! Trade you ...

You guys are making great comments, pro and con. I'm getting mixed vibes from the parent's on camera appearances and what we know to be factual this far. I just can't get off the :fence: one way or another.

 

[Nana46]

Lots of comments about various things the parents said...maybe they are just telling the truth and however dumb it may seem to some if it is the truth then it isn't dumb to them. Really would you admit to some of this stuff if it wasn't true? I am still giving these parents my whole benefit of the doubt...I just cannot do it any other way. You would not just come out with some of these answers if you were trying to cover something up IMO....Please God let this baby be found safe! All the above is IMO>

I realize it does not look good but for me I just can't accept any other option right now. I know I am in the minority and that is okay as I am used to being there,lol.
You guys are great!!