MO - Misty Horner & baby die in home birth, Lees Summit, 8 Dec 2006

[calus_3]

So what?

This is what she chose apparently and died as a result. There is no law that says you can't take yourself out in an amazing act of stupidity. There are phones that will summon help in a matter of minutes via the 911 system.

He needs a good azzkickin, IMHO. What an imbecile.

Cal

 

[julianne]

Hey Cal...

The real issue, I believe, is the innocent child & the events surrounding her death.

 

[luvbeaches]

We do not know the family dynamics. It may not have had anything to do with her religon as to whether or not she could have gotten medical attention. If she was married to a controlling man, it may be she felt she couldn't even ask for it.

And from what is being reported by others who have been involved with this church, I don't think they would have gotten help even if she could have asked. Sadly, it sounds like she was in really bad shape and lingered until she finally died.

 

[luvbeaches]

Yes, this is what I was trying get at. The mother is an adult and it is not clear at all from what I've read that the baby could have been saved.

I know a good many families who have given birth at home (both with and without attending midwives or medical personnel). With rare exception, these births have gone well for mother and father and child. Only one of my friends had a tragic outcome during her home birth, but it was an unavoidable thing.

I also know several families who have had their children at home, but all have done this with the understanding that if the baby or mother should be in danger, then it's off to the hospital.

The baby was breech. They couldn't get the baby out. It died and was left inside her for days. Then he cut her with a pair of dirty scissors and delivered the dead baby. She went into labor on a Saturday (I believe) and they didn't get the baby out until the following Friday. Now if all this is true, then IMO, they killed the baby and the mother.

And all in the name of some funky religion.

I will say if the mother was dumb enough to believe in this, whatever, but when you put an innocent baby in the middle of this, and then you have the results that they have had happen...I hope they are all charged with murder.

We don't know if the baby could have been saved. We don't. But they didn't even make an effort. This just makes me sick to think how that poor baby and mother died.

 

[Annie]

I shudder to think of the torture of being in labor for nearly a week. Then the excruciating pain of the episiotomy without anesthesia would be almost unbearable. Top that off with days of being ill from septic infection before dying. How can someone stand by and let that happen to someone they are supposed to love? I hope they find a way to charge him and his stupid sisters. If that was the best they could do it would be a different story. Today when medical help is nearby, there is no excuse for doing that. If I lived in that town I wouldn't stop until he was removed from the police force. I wouldn't trust his judgment in a critical situation.

 

[Nova]

Indeed.

And what is the mindset that believes it's okay for the untrained husband to operate, but not okay for a doctor to do so? (Maybe the husband can be charged with practicing medicine without a license.)

 

[luvbeaches]

I shudder to think of the torture of being in labor for nearly a week. Then the excruciating pain of the episiotomy without anesthesia would be almost unbearable. Top that off with days of being ill from septic infection before dying. How can someone stand by and let that happen to someone they are supposed to love? I hope they find a way to charge him and his stupid sisters. If that was the best they could do it would be a different story. Today when medical help is nearby, there is no excuse for doing that. If I lived in that town I wouldn't stop until he was removed from the police force. I wouldn't trust his judgment in a critical situation.

My sentiments exactly.

I personally think he shouldn't be on the police force, but I would imagine they'd have a tough time removing him because of his religious beliefs. But time will tell. Her family is furious...and who can blame them.

I can't even imagine the pain she was in through all this. And think of the poor little baby...she didn't have a chance. And to do the episiotomy with a pair of scissors...dirty ones supposedly...ugghhh.

And I believe I read that he wouldn't allow them to come into their home. It's no wonder...their daughter was dying.

 

[luvbeaches]

Indeed.

And what is the mindset that believes it's okay for the untrained husband to operate, but not okay for a doctor to do so? (Maybe the husband can be charged with practicing medicine without a license.)

That is possible...and I'd like to see that happen.

From what I have read, I think if he and his followers are going to be charged with anything, it will have to do with the death of the baby.

I know people have their own beliefs. And I know that many women choose not to have their babies at a hospital, and I know some even go so far as to have their own husbands deliver the baby...but where this crosses the line is when they knew the baby was in trouble...it was breech, and it was obvious that she wasn't going to be able to deliver...then they should have sought help for her and the baby.

By allowing the baby to just die, and then the mother linger for weeks, and then finally die...is just more than I can even deal with. I just have to ask...why? Why would someone do this? You just have to wonder if these people have both oars in the water...a rational human being wouldn't hesitate a moment to seek help.

I was just sickened when I saw this on TV. And the picture of that sweet baby. It's just made me ill.

 

[southcitymom]

Indeed.

And what is the mindset that believes it's okay for the untrained husband to operate, but not okay for a doctor to do so? (Maybe the husband can be charged with practicing medicine without a license.)

I'm pretty sure you can only be charged with practicing medicine without a license if you charge someone for your services.

 

[angelmom]

Freedom of religion is not complete. We don't let people make human sacrifices in the name of religion, and that's what this was. He let his wife labor for six days and allowed his child to die to prove that he had faith in "Jesus as the healer."

The ME might be able determine if the baby died in that 6 days and, if so, I hope he is charged with murder. That baby couldn't refuse medical treatment, and it should be a crime to deny it. If the woman is so stupid as to go along with this, then I guess he might not be liable if she were competent up until she died. What burns me up is that he was told it would only take an antibiotic to treat the mother and he still wouldn't allow it.

This man should be charged with criminally negligent homicide in the case of the baby, if nothing else.

 

[LionRun]

I believe SHE was the dispatcher, he an officer.

Thank you for pointing that out ljwf22. I'm sorry about my error.

It was said that the baby was born stillborn. What we don't know is could the baby have been saved had the mother sought medical attention during pregnancy or at least during the mother's labor.

Lion

 

[luvbeaches]

Freedom of religion is not complete. We don't let people make human sacrifices in the name of religion, and that's what this was. He let his wife labor for six days and allowed his child to die to prove that he had faith in "Jesus as the healer."

The ME might be able determine if the baby died in that 6 days and, if so, I hope he is charged with murder. That baby couldn't refuse medical treatment, and it should be a crime to deny it. If the woman is so stupid as to go along with this, then I guess he might not be liable if she were competent up until she died. What burns me up is that he was told it would only take an antibiotic to treat the mother and he still wouldn't allow it.

This man should be charged with criminally negligent homicide in the case of the baby, if nothing else.

There was another story on the news last night where a couple refused to seek treatment for their young daughter, and now the child is going to be paralized for the rest of her life. I believe they were charged with felony child endangerment.

So here we have someone who endangered the welfare of a child, and they are now facing criminal charges.

I'd like to see her husband and his followers charged with murder. A simple antibiotic would have saved her life...and no doubt, getting her to a hospital would have saved them both.

They showed Caleb's brother...I think he's the one who started this religion. He reminded me of all those other fruitloop religious nuts...David Koresh...Jim Jones, and all those other cult leaders.

I suppose if you're an adult, and you want to believe this, it's up to you. But that baby did not have a say in anything. And I'll bet that if Misty did want help, it wouldn't have happened.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/kshb/nw_local_news/article/0,1925,KSHB_9424_5290028,00.html

In this article, it states that the placenta was still inside Misty after 5 weeks. And she was in labor for a week. The baby was in trouble, and this fool didn't do a thing to try and save either of them. What on earth was this husband thinking???? And his family says they are Methodists! Yeah, right.

I won't be a bit surprised if we don't find out that the baby would have been fine had they had sought medical help. And we know antibiotics would have saved Misty's life.

And the poor guy is depressed. Geez...can you even imagine what a horrible death this was for the baby and his wife. And he's depressed. I hope they toss him in prison. It's where he belongs.

I agree with everything you've posted.

 

[Nore]

The article says the baby was stillborn. How is the husband responsible for that?

The mother was not a child. She made her decision. How is he responsible for that?

------------
The baby more than likely was stillborn because her parents did not see fit to get help in getting her out.If I were a man and a woman was taking a chance on allowing my child to die~bet your boots dear I would step in whether she liked it or not.They deprived that infant of life.IMO.

 

[Nore]

There was another story on the news last night where a couple refused to seek treatment for their young daughter, and now the child is going to be paralized for the rest of her life. I believe they were charged with felony child endangerment.

So here we have someone who endangered the welfare of a child, and they are now facing criminal charges.

I'd like to see her husband and his followers charged with murder. A simple antibiotic would have saved her life...and no doubt, getting her to a hospital would have saved them both.

They showed Caleb's brother...I think he's the one who started this religion. He reminded me of all those other fruitloop religious nuts...David Koresh...Jim Jones, and all those other cult leaders.

I suppose if you're an adult, and you want to believe this, it's up to you. But that baby did not have a say in anything. And I'll bet that if Misty did want help, it wouldn't have happened.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/kshb/nw_local_news/article/0,1925,KSHB_9424_5290028,00.html

In this article, it states that the placenta was still inside Misty after 5 weeks. And she was in labor for a week. The baby was in trouble, and this fool didn't do a thing to try and save either of them. What on earth was this husband thinking???? And his family says they are Methodists! Yeah, right.

I won't be a bit surprised if we don't find out that the baby would have been fine had they had sought medical help. And we know antibiotics would have saved Misty's life.

And the poor guy is depressed. Geez...can you even imagine what a horrible death this was for the baby and his wife. And he's depressed. I hope they toss him in prison. It's where he belongs.

I agree with everything you've posted.

----------------------------They are Methodists? what a crock!! Misty I would sy had blood poisoning from the placenta..This boils me! No way are they Methodists!!

 

[julianne]

In this article, it states that the placenta was still inside Misty after 5 weeks. And she was in labor for a week. The baby was in trouble, and this fool didn't do a thing to try and save either of them. What on earth was this husband thinking???? And his family says they are Methodists! Yeah, right.

I cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like to be in labor for a whole week----that poor, poor, poor woman!!!

And the placenta was inside her for 5 weeks after the fact??? WHAT??? I'm sorry, but as a police officer, he DOES have a certain amount of medical training---to me, any LAYPERSON knows that a retained placenta is the perfect recipe for massive infection that leads to death ALWAYS. I don't know, but to me, that is BASIC. Did they WANT her to die???? Because I'm starting to feel like they did!!! IMO, of course----but geez, everything that could've gone wrong, did! This would have been an emergency situation in a hospital--a place equipped with all the things that could save her---oy vey!

 

[kgeaux]

Freedom of religion is not complete. We don't let people make human sacrifices in the name of religion, and that's what this was. He let his wife labor for six days and allowed his child to die to prove that he had faith in "Jesus as the healer."

The ME might be able determine if the baby died in that 6 days and, if so, I hope he is charged with murder. That baby couldn't refuse medical treatment, and it should be a crime to deny it. If the woman is so stupid as to go along with this, then I guess he might not be liable if she were competent up until she died. What burns me up is that he was told it would only take an antibiotic to treat the mother and he still wouldn't allow it.

This man should be charged with criminally negligent homicide in the case of the baby, if nothing else.

Gotta disagree with you on this one.

The husband did not IMO "let" his wife labor for six days. SHE made a choice. She was an intelligent adult who chose to exercise her FAITH. Nothing in this story suggests that the woman was forciblly denied medical care. Nothing in the story suggests the woman was stupid or that she merely was "going along with" the husband's will.

He cannot be prosecuted anymore than a Jehovah's Witness husband can be prosecuted if his wife dies after she refuses a blood transfusion.

You and I may not agree with faith healings, but as an adult, this woman was free to believe and to exercise that belief. There are many people who would rather die exercising faith in God than to live after denying that faith.

 

[southcitymom]

Gotta disagree with you on this one.

The husband did not IMO "let" his wife labor for six days. SHE made a choice. She was an intelligent adult who chose to exercise her FAITH. Nothing in this story suggests that the woman was forciblly denied medical care. Nothing in the story suggests the woman was stupid or that she merely was "going along with" the husband's will.

He cannot be prosecuted anymore than a Jehovah's Witness husband can be prosecuted if his wife dies after she refuses a blood transfusion.

You and I may not agree with faith healings, but as an adult, this woman was free to believe and to exercise that belief. There are many people who would rather die exercising faith in God than to live after denying that faith.

You stated my feelings better than I have been able to. Thank you for this post.

 

[luvbeaches]

He cannot be prosecuted anymore than a Jehovah's Witness husband can be prosecuted if his wife dies after she refuses a blood transfusion.

You and I may not agree with faith healings, but as an adult, this woman was free to believe and to exercise that belief. There are many people who would rather die exercising faith in God than to live after denying that faith.

I suppose if she wanted to go along with this, and put her life in danger, that's her decision as an adult. But the baby didn't have this choice, and if there are to be charges, this is probably where they will come from.

The baby didn't have a say in this. I hope they are all charged at least for the death of the baby. The baby didn't need to die. And IMO, their religion doesn't give them the right to let that happen.

I feel for the children of these familes. They are tugged into these cults by their weak parents. People that for some reason can't find their way in life unless they have someone telling them what to do.

But I do hope there is justice for the baby. She didn't have a chance with her whacko dad and his family.

 

[southcitymom]

I don't know much about forensics. Can they determine when the child died? Can they ascertain if the child was dead after 2 hours in labor or died as a result of the protracted labor?

 

[luvbeaches]

I don't know much about forensics. Can they determine when the child died? Can they ascertain if the child was dead after 2 hours in labor or died as a result of the protracted labor?

That I don't know. But from what I read, they had trouble with the delivery because the baby was breech. There may not have been any complications had the baby not been in this position.

I would imagine there'll be more about in the news (in the weeks to come).


At the beginning, I was angered that they both died...IMO, needlessly. However, as I read what everyone is saying, and have had time to think about it...I suppose she had the right to do what she wanted (the mother). And will we ever find out if the mother did indeed ask for medical help? I doubt her husband would come forward with that info, nor would any of the other participants.

However, once the baby was in distress, and a breech birth that the baby can't seem to be delivered, that's when medical attention should have been sought. I know that may be against their religion, but the baby has rights too. This baby wasn't of age or a willing participant of this, and that's where I think I am the most angered. I guess time will tell if they've broken any laws. Of course I just shake my head and wonder what nutballs these people are. And for the father of this man to say they were "Methodists" is interesting. He sounds like he's not part of the "made-up" religion, or he's trying to make them sound normal.