MO - Off-duty officer (Katlyn Alix) shot dead by on-duty officer (Nathaniel Hendren), Jan 2019

[Deleted member 158085]

How do you know that as a fact? I suspect that they are unrelated, but it's opinion, not fact.

It worries me that anyone in LE would not see the need to look at those two days of duty together and would so quickly come to these “easy” conclusions.

 

[PrairieWind]

PR's lawyer already admitted his client consumed alcohol while on duty, and I'd like to believe that violation would be enough to cost a 2 year rookie his job (I'm told that won't happen). I'm hoping there may also be an obstruction of justice charge for the partner when investigation is complete. MOO

The union will of course defend him. But he admitted to drinking (even if only a sip or two) which is prohibited. He was already outside his patrol area, another violation. He witnessed his partner engaging in a crime (reckless endangering). There is no way he SHOULD survive an attempt to fire him. The question is: will the department try to fire him? This is where a police department and the police union can be at odds. So far, the police chief doesnt seem to be interested in challenging his officers' conduct. We will see.

 

[mickey2942]

I am all for unions, been a paying member for years. I don't like it when unions defend people who are really deadweight or do things that are wrong. There is a problem there.

Honestly, I don't want police officers on the job who went AWOL while on duty, to hang out in an apartment, drink beer, and goof off. How many other times did that happen?

Oh, just that ONE time. Of course.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

It's cases like this that make people think that police can act, and are treated, as being above the law. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that if this were a regular citizen, there would not be a much more skeptical view taken by the police while investigating, rather than putting forth the RR dialogue. Of course, if you take the other side of the coin, and say that it happened exactly as claimed, what does that say about the kinds of people that police departments are willing to hire? Someone who thinks it's fun to play a alternative universe style of RR? Someone who goes home while on duty to drink?

I hate generalizing, and saying every policeman is horrible, corrupt, without redeeming value, etc. Of course that's not true. I'm sure many are wonderful, caring, responsible officers, upholding the law in a legitimate manner, and with compassion and measured actions. But clearly, there are also many exceptions. And unfortunately, they deserve more prominence, for their actions outweigh the positive impact of the good eggs. Cops carry weapons readily capable of taking a life. Nothing should be considered more serious than that, and EVERY TIME that is abused, a spotlight needs to be shined, and JUSTICE needs to be served.

But we all know, that's often not the case, and it's why I'm at least hesitant to believe this is headed in the right direction, based upon what is known so far. We'll see, I guess.

 

[PrairieWind]

It's cases like this that make people think that police can act, and are treated, as being above the law. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that if this were a regular citizen, there would not be a much more skeptical view taken by the police while investigating, rather than putting forth the RR dialogue. Of course, if you take the other side of the coin, and say that it happened exactly as claimed, what does that say about the kinds of people that police departments are willing to hire? Someone who thinks it's fun to play a alternative universe style of RR? Someone who goes home while on duty to drink?

I hate generalizing, and saying every policeman is horrible, corrupt, without redeeming value, etc. Of course that's not true. I'm sure many are wonderful, caring, responsible officers, upholding the law in a legitimate manner, and with compassion and measured actions. But clearly, there are also many exceptions. And unfortunately, they deserve more prominence, for their actions outweigh the positive impact of the good eggs. Cops carry weapons readily capable of taking a life. Nothing should be considered more serious than that, and EVERY TIME that is abused, a spotlight needs to be shined, and JUSTICE needs to be served.

But we all know, that's often not the case, and it's why I'm at least hesitant to believe this is headed in the right direction, based upon what is known so far. We'll see, I guess.

I am normally very pro law enforcement. But I agree that if this was a civilian, there would have been a very different response, no question. I know lots of LE people and they are very dedicated and honest. But there are bad apples. And i think most LE will expose those people. However, when you have a LE department that has a long history of corruption or sleezy behavior, that changes things. Corruption is a cancer. It has to be stopped at soon as possible.

 

[GordianKnot]

PR's lawyer already admitted his client consumed alcohol while on duty, and I'd like to believe that violation would be enough to cost a 2 year rookie his job (I'm told that won't happen). I'm hoping there may also be an obstruction of justice charge for the partner when investigation is complete. MOO

Same here.

If (cough, cough) the RRR story is untrue, then PR absolutely should be charged with obstruction for lying to the police in the course of an investigation.

JMO.

 

[Only10in89]

I haven’t read all of the posts on this thread but here in KCMO the reporting I’ve seen has been that the officers were playing Russian Roulette when the female officer was shot (which I never believed) My theory is that she probably had information on one, or both of the men who killed her , that they didn’t want to get out! Hopefully she wasn’t having an affair with one of them(?) And her family knows the true reason why she might have been murdered!

 

[Only10in89]

It’s ABSOLUTELY proof positive about what people already know about the stl pd ... they have needed a complete overhaul for some time now

 

[Psychofcrime]

And let the legal wranglings begin....
Officer accused in colleague’s death seeks new judge | WTOP

 

[Psychofcrime]

Mayor Lyda Krewson says she continues to have confidence in the leadership of the St. Louis police department despite seven officers being charged with felonies in two months.

Krewson Voices Support For Public Safety Leaders Despite Turmoil In Police Department

 

[Psychofcrime]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=349936265596412

 

[GarAndTeed]

Mayor Lyda Krewson says she continues to have confidence in the leadership of the St. Louis police department despite seven officers being charged with felonies in two months.

Krewson Voices Support For Public Safety Leaders Despite Turmoil In Police Department

SMDH

 

[GordianKnot]

It's cases like this that make people think that police can act, and are treated, as being above the law. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that if this were a regular citizen, there would not be a much more skeptical view taken by the police while investigating, rather than putting forth the RR dialogue. Of course, if you take the other side of the coin, and say that it happened exactly as claimed, what does that say about the kinds of people that police departments are willing to hire? Someone who thinks it's fun to play a alternative universe style of RR? Someone who goes home while on duty to drink?

I hate generalizing, and saying every policeman is horrible, corrupt, without redeeming value, etc. Of course that's not true. I'm sure many are wonderful, caring, responsible officers, upholding the law in a legitimate manner, and with compassion and measured actions. But clearly, there are also many exceptions. And unfortunately, they deserve more prominence, for their actions outweigh the positive impact of the good eggs. Cops carry weapons readily capable of taking a life. Nothing should be considered more serious than that, and EVERY TIME that is abused, a spotlight needs to be shined, and JUSTICE needs to be served.

But we all know, that's often not the case, and it's why I'm at least hesitant to believe this is headed in the right direction, based upon what is known so far. We'll see, I guess.

BBM:

I agree, but we're probably setting the bar too high.

The fact that Lady Justice wears a blindfold means she misses a lot of flagrant misconduct
that goes on right under her nose, IMO.

To me, that blindfold at times symbolizes less an attitude of impartiality and fairness than one of deliberately closing one's eyes to the truth, i.e., "See no Evil."

I'd personally like Justice to remove the blinders in this case, and take a good, hard look.

I get your hesitancy to feel optimistic about where this is headed. I'm skeptical.

JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

SMDH

Nothing expresses sincere outrage quite like the red-faced emoji!

Gar, if it makes you feel any better, you're not alone.

(you) (me).

Call us the Emoji Twins!

 

[mickey2942]

St. Louis cop Nathaniel Hendren was on patrol with Officer Alix two days before her death | Daily Mail Online

This article is interesting. Alix worked with NH two nights earlier.

The timeline is interesting as well.

12:14 am, NH and PR call in regarding false alarm.

12:56 Alix admitted to ER

1:07 Alix declared dead

NH worked with PR two nights after working with Alix. This was the 3rd night.

I wish we had more information, like cell phone records. And text messages, if there were more between Alix and NH since their last shift, or significantly less.

So, the 2 officers picked up sandwiches at Subway on the way home, they entered the apartment around 12:35 or so, per their report. In less than 20 minutes later, Alix was at the ER, which is a 7 minute drive from NH apartment. So, we are from 12:56, to 12:49 for drive. Add 5 minutes for getting Alix from apartment to car, that is 12:45.

They went from drinking beer and eating sandwiches to "RRR" within 5 minutes. Honestly, I just don't see that timeline working at all. If we believe the "RRR" story, I would be more likely to accept it, if they had been drinking and horsing around for an hour or so, stupid stuff like that seems "reasonable" at 2 am, when people are drunk and stupid. It doesn't quite work as well when there is 10 minutes of eating, drinking one beer.

Just the timeline makes me think that this was planned for some reason. I know how acrimonious work relationships can get...

(Note, I remember one article that mentioned that they stopped for sandwiches and brought them home, can't find it now).

 

[GordianKnot]

St. Louis cop Nathaniel Hendren was on patrol with Officer Alix two days before her death | Daily Mail Online

This article is interesting. Alix worked with NH two nights earlier.

The timeline is interesting as well.

12:14 am, NH and PR call in regarding false alarm.

12:56 Alix admitted to ER

1:07 Alix declared dead

NH worked with PR two nights after working with Alix. This was the 3rd night.

I wish we had more information, like cell phone records. And text messages, if there were more between Alix and NH since their last shift, or significantly less.

So, the 2 officers picked up sandwiches at Subway on the way home, they entered the apartment around 12:35 or so, per their report. In less than 20 minutes later, Alix was at the ER, which is a 7 minute drive from NH apartment. So, we are from 12:56, to 12:49 for drive. Add 5 minutes for getting Alix from apartment to car, that is 12:45.

They went from drinking beer and eating sandwiches to "RRR" within 5 minutes. Honestly, I just don't see that timeline working at all. If we believe the "RRR" story, I would be more likely to accept it, if they had been drinking and horsing around for an hour or so, stupid stuff like that seems "reasonable" at 2 am, when people are drunk and stupid. It doesn't quite work as well when there is 10 minutes of eating, drinking one beer.

Just the timeline makes me think that this was planned for some reason. I know how acrimonious work relationships can get...

(Note, I remember one article that mentioned that they stopped for sandwiches and brought them home, can't find it now).

BBM: Absolutely agree w/ your assessment, mickey.

The timeline does not at all support the RRR scenario. It's a joke.

Said it before and I'll say it again (because I'm not above repeating myself, and also because I'm quite fond of quoting The Bard):

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

*Disclaimer: IANAG (I Am Not A Geographer)

But I'm pretty sure St. Louis is in Denmark....amiright?

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

There is also something about the black eye of NH...it did look like a 2nd or 3rd day eye. Because usually there is a lot more blood in the vitreous, seriously blood red eye right after trauma. The blood moves out of the eye over the next day. NH's picture, with black eye, has a clear vitreous.

Anyone else want to discuss eye anatomy and black eye evolution?

 

[Willow Knight]

I had previously written my best guess why she had gone to the apartment but it was deleted by the moderators because it wasn’t victim friendly. I accept that since it’s the policy of the website. I can tell you that nothing happened on that night shift two days earlier that would have caused her death. People are reading way too much into this case with their conspiracy theories. As I said on day one this is a rather easy case.

If I could ask this question, is it possible that the investigation can determine the exact angle and line the bullet drove before hitting the officer? To clarify, can it be determined that the bullet left the gun at XXXX inches from the ground and the gun was pointed directly towards it's intended target? Trying my best to come up with a scenario that would fit the "RRR" excuse.

Ok, two questions. Is it possible to tell if the gun had recently been fired more than once recently? By that I mean, does the bullet have to pass to tell if it had been "clicked" and no bullet left the gun.

 

[GordianKnot]

There is also something about the black eye of NH...it did look like a 2nd or 3rd day eye. Because usually there is a lot more blood in the vitreous, seriously blood red eye right after trauma. The blood moves out of the eye over the next day. NH's picture, with black eye, has a clear vitreous.

Anyone else want to discuss eye anatomy and black eye evolution?

Sure, I'm game....It beats playing RRR, that for sure.

Here's everything I know about black eyes in a nutshell:

How Long Does a Black Eye Last? How to Get Rid of Black Eye

How to Treat a Black Eye: Causes, Stages, Symptoms & Healing Times

 

[Seattle1]

If I could ask this question, is it possible that the investigation can determine the exact angle and line the bullet drove before hitting the officer? To clarify, can it be determined that the bullet left the gun at XXXX inches from the ground and the gun was pointed directly towards it's intended target? Trying my best to come up with a scenario that would fit the "RRR" excuse.

Ok, two questions. Is it possible to tell if the gun had recently been fired more than once recently? By that I mean, does the bullet have to pass to tell if it had been "clicked" and no bullet left the gun.

Great questions @Willow Knight.

I'm hoping that this information is also revealed during the promised transparent investigation, together with the Officer's Disciplinary Reports filed on Jan 24, 2019 (still trying to locate).