MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, 28 February 1983 *NamUs #UP3199* #2

[DS2021]

Also I wish they still kept the adult pubic or arm hair found on her. That is certainly the perps hair

My understanding is there's a strong chance that public hair came from the person who was in the body bag before her

 

[iamshadow21]

My understanding is there's a strong chance that public hair came from the person who was in the body bag before her

Yeah, '83 was a different era. DNA was years away. All they could do with a hair was morphology. And there was less understanding of the transference of trace. Nobody wore Noddy suits in '83 at a crime scene. It was probably an enlightened force that even wore gloves if they weren't forensics techs.

MOO

 

[Susikatze]

My understanding is there's a strong chance that public hair came from the person who was in the body bag before her

Sadly possible, though I believe even though they did not do DNA yet, they treated hair as important evidence back then - so it is hard to believe it came from an officer or the body bag. But who knows

 

[lonewanderer]

My understanding is there's a strong chance that public hair came from the person who was in the body bag before her

If the sample was around it could at least answer that.

 

[Cubby]

It’s hurtful to us because of how we feel about Doe, but we have to remember that we aren’t her family— we have no clear or objective picture of the interpersonal relationships or connections Doe had in her life, for better or worse. We don’t know what the relatives of Doe, once or twice removed, had to endure in their lifetimes. We don’t know what her and her immediate family had to do to survive. We can only speculate about who she was based on what little evidence we are privy to.

Personally, I think the resistance to complying genetic geneology and related means of collecting and searching DNA might be indicative of ongoing abuse, whether it’s sexual, physical, emotional, etc., within Doe’s immediate and/or extended family. That’s pure speculation on my part, though.

There seems to be a widespread lack of trust of police and the judicial system within the black community due to decades upon decades of abuse towards the entire community. It's far greater than the circumstances of any individual family.....

All of that, and then some, has created an environment where DNA from that community is going to be difficult to obtain. To them willingly sharing DNA is an avenue to more injustice against their community. It's sad, but true.

 

[bearfossils]

There seems to be a widespread lack of trust of police and the judicial system within the black community due to decades upon decades of abuse towards the entire community. It's far greater than the circumstances of any individual family.....

All of that, and then some, has created an environment where DNA from that community is going to be difficult to obtain. To them willingly sharing DNA is an avenue to more injustice against their community. It's sad, but true.

I agree completely. Their distrust isn’t unwarranted—the black community and women in general have every right to be skeptical of law enforcement considering their history. I only mentioned a personal history within the family specifically because of what happened to Doe, and the fact that violence like that creates a ripple effect, and may itself be borne of one of those ripples. Sexual violence and violence against children rarely happens in a vacuum.

Worse, IMO, is the blind eye a lot of law enforcement and government agencies have towards crimes like this, especially if they happen to people of color, women, and those of us living in lower income brackets. The disparity that exists between those who have and those who have not, and those who fit a certain criteria and those who don’t, is a huge issue with cases like this.

It just makes fighting for Doe matter even more. We can find who she is without hurting or violating anyone. I firmly believe that is possible, and that making sure we find who she is, and consequently, who killed her, is completely possible too.

( Sorry to go on a rant: this is all JMO )

 

[bearfossils]

Still thinking of you, baby girl. I hope you had moments of beauty in your short life which helped to outweigh the cruelty and pain you experienced. If not, I hope that in some way the love that was denied to you in your lifetime is given back to you through the people dedicated to finding who you are, who killed you, and restoring your humanity. You are never forgotten.

 

[fidgeypie]

Still thinking of you, baby girl. I hope you had moments of beauty in your short life which helped to outweigh the cruelty and pain you experienced. If not, I hope that in some way the love that was denied to you in your lifetime is given back to you through the people dedicated to finding who you are, who killed you, and restoring your humanity. You are never forgotten.

I totally agree, and there are people who have followed your case and have taken you to their hearts despite not being actual family. The years pass and each new year brings hope that you will be welcomed home to your name

 

[MrsShakur]

I totally agree, and there are people who have followed your case and have taken you to their hearts despite not being actual family. The years pass and each new year brings hope that you will be welcomed home to your name

Everytime I get a notification from this thread I get the slightest bit of hope. I stopped reading all other cases because my heart is so broken over this little girl, I can't imagine adding the pain of another cold case going unsolved. I feel I've done everything in my power to research and dig for answers with no responses from the detectives or nameus so now all I can do is wait in pure disgust for justice.

 

[bearfossils]

Everytime I get a notification from this thread I get the slightest bit of hope. I stopped reading all other cases because my heart is so broken over this little girl, I can't imagine adding the pain of another cold case going unsolved. I feel I've done everything in my power to research and dig for answers with no responses from the detectives or nameus so now all I can do is wait in pure disgust for justice.

Don’t lose hope. I’m not religious, but I really believe it means something, in a way I can’t qualify or quantify, that all of us think of our Doe regularly and keep her alive in our discussions, actions, and thoughts. A part of her is never lost as long as we all keep her alive in our hearts and minds.

We’ve seen cases we never thought would be solved brought to light and to justice decades later. The kind of person who would commit a crime like this is hoping to obliterate — he wanted our Doe to vanish through his absolutely repellant actions and assumed no one would miss or care about her.

He was wrong on both counts.

 

[DS2021]

Dna technology is improving at breakneck speed. She WILL get her name back. CeCe Moore is working this case personally. She is one of the best genetic genealogists of all time.

 

[MrsShakur]

I love the positivity and points of view - thank you for even a shred of hope. I genuinely believe the that murdered her is probably dead by now. Any not in the slow brutal torturous death that he deserves. I too am not religious but hope he's getting exactly that sitting in hell for eternity. This poor child deserves at least that.

 

[bearfossils]

I am grateful there are incredibly talented people working to find who are Doe is through DNA technology, and I truly believe it is only a matter of time until they find who Doe is.

Until that happens, are there other ways we can honor Doe? Could we get together and organize a memorial for her? I live in Florida, but I would be willing to travel to flood her gravestone with flowers, or have a celebration for her. If others are working behind the scenes, maybe we could do something in public for her.

 

[iamshadow21]

I am grateful there are incredibly talented people working to find who are Doe is through DNA technology, and I truly believe it is only a matter of time until they find who Doe is.

Until that happens, are there other ways we can honor Doe? Could we get together and organize a memorial for her? I live in Florida, but I would be willing to travel to flood her gravestone with flowers, or have a celebration for her. If others are working behind the scenes, maybe we could do something in public for her.

Encourage people to submit their profiles from Ancestry and such to GEDmatch, and opt in for LE use. Especially if they have some Black ancestry. That would be more help to her than flowers would.

 

[PromotedPawn]

Encourage people to submit their profiles from Ancestry and such to GEDmatch, and opt in for LE use. Especially if they have some Black ancestry. That would be more help to her than flowers would.

This is a great idea. Unfortunately African Americans can be (understandably) untrusting of law enforcement. MOO

 

[bearfossils]

Encourage people to submit their profiles from Ancestry and such to GEDmatch, and opt in for LE use. Especially if they have some Black ancestry. That would be more help to her than flowers would.

I agree with you: I suppose I was wondering out loud what would be the best way to do this, along with bringing attention to Doe and her case in general.

Personally, I think that if people are dissuaded from interacting with law enforcement, especially with something as sensitive as submitting DNA, we should appeal to them on an emotional and personal level, and do it with citizens, instead of LE.

There should be a way to share Doe’s story and encourage people within justifiably hesitant communities to give DNA, and I think part of that lies in sharing her story, focusing on Doe as a person, and making her real in the eyes of others.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is a great idea. Unfortunately African Americans can be (understandably) untrusting of law enforcement. MOO

Yeah, I understand that.

It's a valid concern with a lot of very ugly history of violence and present misuse and abuse of a marginalised people behind it.

Unfortunately, the flipside is that despite years of GG, this little girl is still a Jane Doe.

We can't have identification without some degree of co operation with law enforcement, be it walking in to a police station if you have information or giving your profile to GEDmatch. That's where things are with this case.

MOO

 

[Sweetluv]

Namus case 9271 what are the chances the race is incorrect? This skull was found in a storage unit just a 12 minute drive away from where her body was found. Claimed to have been purchased from a flea market?

What ever became of this suggestion?
Was it ever submitted? The skull, according to NamUs, has 0 ruleouts.

 

[Amateur Web Sleuth]

Has Phyllis Gilliam been considered? Just out of the stated ranges for demographic, age and size..
Missing at 11 years old from South Carolina in 1971 was about 60 lbs when she went missing. By 1982-1983 she would have been older and taller, not sure where she would have been all those years but thought she fit the demographic enough.

 

[Amateur Web Sleuth]

here’s another one, Shirley Magee from Illinois. Missing since 1973 when walking to school. Could have been kept or moved to another area.