Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

[Deleted member 155000]

When looking at map (or Google Earth) and you set the orientation sloped and headed W on 9, it really seems like the road into the park and the power station in the distance could look like a route back to town. I guess it depends on how well she knew that area, especially at night. If you look at her presumed route and assume she meant to take the 635 over the river, the ride into the park and to the boat ramp is a similar shape and direction. Distracted, she could have hit the river head on at a good clip. I just don't see her sliding down and being unable to get at least partly out of the car.

I read Pete Sr.s Q/A and got the strong impression that his theory seems to contradict the recovery team's report that the car had to have been in the water quite a while to have been so buried.

I think the person who pointed out that the power station looks like a city at night hit on the most likely scenario.

I agree with several things stated in the last few posts.

1. If she went to this park, she likely went purposefully. It's not impossible she was turning around, but to me it's more believable that she had a meeting there.

2. Given how people have described Toni's driving habits (as being fast and a bit reckless), the inadequate signage, and the combination of possible substance use, fatigue, disorientation, darkness, and weather...I still think accident is the most likely (but not certain) explanation.

3. I want to know more about a few things which could cause me to more strongly consider foul play:

--Whether police consider this or any nearby river area as a criminal dumping ground.

--Whether there was anything inappropriate or negligent about that traffic stop, should the dash cam be released.

--Whether the police have searched river side curves for any alternative path of entry to the water (despite the boat ramp seeming like the likely one).

--Whether she had substances in her body and how she acquired them.

--Whether an autopsy turns up any unexpected findings...like evidence of assault or evidence she wasn't in the water as long as we think or evidence that she died prior to going into the water.

--Whether there is evidence of someone else being with her at the park at any point.

--Whether she turns out to have been working as a CI (again, I don't pick that as likely, but I haven't heard police rule it out...so there's at least a small possibility).

--Whether there is someone in charge of this investigation who is squashing investigation and advocating for closing it as an accident/suicide.






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[allmybecsloveme]

Anyone reading the social media rumor on both fb pages? Can't repeat here, but I'm just baffled.

A week and done. I'm so sorry Toni.

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[Hiandmighty]

Just a thought and this is just me throwing a comment out there-- maybe she was distributing...

 

[AceDetective]

(modsnip)


The is no ruling yet, and I doubt there will be one for months.

Contrary to rumors, the case is not closed.

 

[perfectingpink]

I didn't know that was a potential issue. In any case, this case has not been ruled accidental.

The is no ruling yet, and I doubt there will be one for months.

Contrary to rumors, the case is not closed.

I agree. I just cannot make myself believe they would tell a complete stranger her case was closed.

 

[The real reason]

I believe we should check the facts. The police have not offered a "press conference.". They have provided a few answers to media questions in the initial stages when the facts were still coming in and took part in a heavily edited television show as well as a interview with the local newspaper. I find much of the speculation of cover up, police incompetence, and crazy theory provided to the family to be extremely offensive. Toni's parents may be from a small town, but they are not fools. They are bright loving and caring people that have the intellectual ability to process information provided to them and accept it , or deny it as truth. To act as if they have no idea what is going on is to to insinuate they are naive and foolish which they are not. When I began to read these posts I was intrigued. I wondered whether they were brilliant minds out there that might provide new perspectives based on facts and research. I am rather impressed with a few of you. Having no information, you seemed to be on the right track. As for the majority, I do not feel the same. Many have taken urban legend or facebook posts as fact. This is supposed to be a group or researchers, not story tellers. Please give Toni's parents some credit that they can understand what has happened here. They have been receiving two months of police intelligence and feel that they have a solid grasp on what transpired and ultimately was the tragic death of a sweet young woman who was just trying to find her way in this world. I understand this post may be blocked. So be it. I cannot stand silent on the sidelines any longer.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I didn't know that was a potential issue. In any case, this case has not been ruled accidental.

The is no ruling yet, and I doubt there will be one for months.

Contrary to rumors, the case is not closed.

Agreed. The police were asked about foul play and said that is still under investigation. The autopsy/toxicology reports have not been released either so the case isn't officially closed. Her parents have just suggested they have their answers now, which has led people to believe they won't request further investigation.


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[Hiandmighty]

I feel solid this was a tragic accident. No other directions interest me when I considered them.

(modsnip)

 

[The real reason]

Thank you. If there is anything I have leaned through all of this it is that law enforcement needs our help. They likely do not have the manpower or know-how to research the latest social media. Many of our missing persons share their hopes and dreams as well as a few clues in that realm. State of mind, associates, future plans etc. If this is your strength get off the sidelines. Call the investigative element of the case you are researching. Don't share your thoughts or suggestions, rather share what you learned about that person. If it already known they will advise. Tips are good but two way communication is more effective. If we are serious about being sleuths we need to dig deep, do some research and share out. ACE...you and several others seem very interested in solving cases. Let's focus our minds and efforts and make a difference. What say you?

 

[The real reason]

Hi and mighty thank you for embracing Toni's parents and not buying into the conspiracies.

 

[heartgoesout]

What rumors?

 

[AceDetective]

What rumors?

Someone sent in a tip and they were allegedly told no more tips were needed because the case was closed.

Some aspect of the case may be closed, like the tip line, but the KCPD case won't be closed until they get toxicology, and that typically takes a long time. They never close cases until all results are in.

 

[MaxManning]

The logic I'm not following is where this kid buys some weed off another kid at school, and the other kid somehow finds out he is a CI, kills him, and stages an elaborate suicide scenario as a coverup.

This kid snuck out of his dorm after going to bed. He died via a gunshot to the head. A gun is missing from the family home. Connect the dots.

Did you miss the part where the gun wasn't found??

you have a connect the dots that just says he snuck out, had a gun, a gunshot wound in the head and was found in a river.

yet here's my scenario:

is confirmed fact that he was a CI.
Kid is forced to do drug deals to avoid Prison
Does all drug deals, but the last one. Once that was done, he's home free.
He takes a gun - why? maybe he was worried about just what might happen, if he was found a snitch
He sneaks out -- well, don't you think that for the other drug deals he might have done the same thing?
Body is found with a backpack with rocks in it -- yes, this is common when people kill other people and put them in water, it makes them sink.
Gunshot to the head
No gun is found.

however it could not be determined whether it was self-inflicted or not. The weapon used has not been found, although police diving teams searched the river several times.

A security camera monitoring the parking lot was not functioning that night. Someone who had talked to her reported seeing three people cleaning a car similar to her son's the night he went missing

The Buccaneers sweatshirt was missing, but his body was wearing a jacket that he did not appear to be carrying or wearing on the security camera footage, and which his family did not recognize as one belonging to him. His wallet was also missing.

In 2016, Tammy Sadek complained to The Daily Beast that following the discovery of Andrew's car, police had promised to search the river as soon as it went down from its springtime flood stage, which should have been about a month afterwards. Yet they never did, she claimed, until the dive team happened to be doing its training exercise a month after the waters had receded. "It just happened to be a fluke that they did find him",

So someone NOT looking for him, found him.

I propose that what he did that night was exactly the same thing he likely did for all subsequent controlled buys, up until the part where they kill him. Yes, sounds like a good plan to kill someone, fill their backpack with rocks and put them in the river. Did he wade out into the river and shoot himself there?

One more buy and he's out of the deal. Seems like that's a reason to be optimistic, not depressed :

There was no suicidal tendencies. There was no note. There was no depression. And his grades were excellent ... Who shoots themselves in the head and fills their backpack with rocks, ties it to themselves and ends up in the river? It’s just too much.

i'll look around for similar cases where people where suicide is ruled and someone is found with rocks in their backpack in a river. But, I don't think there's any lack of logic for what can happen to a snitch.

If the only logic you have to say it was suicide is that he brought a gun with him and he is dead, I'm not clear on how that screams suicide, especially given all above.

 

[AceDetective]

Yeah, "The real reason," I have been planning to take another break from this case starting tonight anyway. Toni has been found. I'm not sure there is any benefit to pushing any particular theory at this point, frankly. There is a certain issue I am very passionate about, but I'm not sure this forum is the place to push it. I've had weeks to think about it, but I'm still not sure what is the right or wrong thing to do regarding this issue.

Contrary to most others, apparently, I have a lot of faith in law enforcement. Yeah, sometimes they screw up royally. But the majority of the time, from what I've seen, they get it right. Right now I mainly want to just wait and see what law enforcement determines. I suspect it will take months before they release a verdict. There is toxicology to wait for, and it seems to me they would be remiss not to analyze her phone, if they did, in fact, find it with her.

After reading Toni's tumblr and twitter at great length, I really feel like I knew her. I feel like I got a good sense of what she was all about. She had a good heart. I am deeply saddened by Toni's passing. I was hoping beyond hope that somehow she would be found alive.

Josh Helmuth posted a message from Pete. It reads, in part: (source)

"[...] I'd like to publicly say sorry to the Andersons for not protecting their daughter. I'm sorry. I'll miss Toni, she was the love of my life and I can't see myself without her. I'll never get to see her in a wedding dress. We talked about having children later in life, now I'll never get to know what they'll look like. [...]"

This will no doubt be difficult for all those who loved Toni to get over. The world has lost a beautiful soul.

 

[AceDetective]

Max, in that particular case you will never convince me, and I will never convince you.
I don't think a discussion of that case belongs here, frankly. I should have never touched it.

 

[MaxManning]

Max, in that particular case you will never convince me, and I will never convince you.
I don't think a discussion of that case belongs here, frankly. I should have never touched it.

I agree, we won't see eye to eye. I believe in excluding suspicion, not ignoring.

It's common to post videos and links to cases that have similarities, for the purpose of simply evaluating angles. that's all it had to be.

Is it a fair point to say that if you don't ask if your loved one was a CI, you might not get the answer? That is what that video suggests to me, since that is what factually happened. not supposition.

 

[AceDetective]

Max, I didn't mean to imply it was wrong to post the link. I agree, it's common to post examples.

 

[MaxManning]

Contrary to most others, apparently, I have a lot of faith in law enforcement. Yeah, sometimes they screw up royally. But the majority of the time, from what I've seen, they get it right.

I think in general most people have faith in LE and yes a majority of the time they get it right. But just that sentiment alone is not enough to just ignore obvious questions. Just clarify and explain them, and everyone is happy. I don't think that can be characterized as not having faith in them, but rather expecting to get an answer for a valid question.

If they provided those, who would be needing to be suspicious? It's the lack of this aspect in their approach that is creating suspicion.

I post a video of LE purposefully hiding the fact a kid was a CI, and can you agree that it shouldn't even have had to be asked? If not, which it factually wasn't, what is that doing in regards to creating trust in regards to this topic?

Blind faith, is not what you should have for anyone. jmo

 

[MaxManning]

Max, I didn't mean to imply it was wrong to post the link.

Cool, thanks for clarifying.

 

[heartgoesout]

Ace, trust me you do not know Toni unless you knew her. I have several example of people I know who put on a great face on social media. Wimpy men who appear to be tough guys. Good girls who pretend to be bad. One women, neighbor, in particular casts a web of lies on social media so convincing I started to think the police I see at her house ever week was an illusion.
Rule one of social media...no one is who they pretend to be.