Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #7

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  • #161
Toni drove around with her headrest either fully down or up one click. Why were her headrests visibly up on both sides when her car was pulled out of the water if it was an accident?
Btw, I have really thick skin. Words will not cause me harm. So don't feel like you have to hold back any discussion.
 
  • #162
Can someone verify if Toni's license plate was on her car when it was pulled out of the water? (Rear license plate only)
 
  • #163
Max I posted that before I read your post : )
Then I saw your post and thought hmmm maybe I should post I wasn't posting in response to your post. lol
 
  • #164
13324353_G.jpg

I will try to find a clearer shot.
 
  • #165
Pete, so you mean that the head rests were in different positions? As if someone moved them?
 
  • #166
Speaking of hindsight, I look at it differently. If I didn't know some of the history of Toni's surroundings I would think this was an accident. Why would I think anything else? But I can't unread what I've read. If my son went missing no way no how I would think it was drug related or possibly shady characters associated with his job. But if I found he led a risky lifestyle and put him in as Toni, boy oh boy I'm gonna really need some hard evidence that this was an accident.
So I have to assume Toni's parents have some hard evidence that this was an accident and that all theories have been explored and hard answers on our questions.
 
  • #167
I can't answer questions
 
  • #168
The plate is normally mounted on the trunk lid. Unfortunately the lid is up in every shot I can find, including when it was towed out of there.
 
  • #169
Toni drove around with her headrest either fully down or up one click. Why were her headrests visibly up on both sides when her car was pulled out of the water if it was an accident?
[...]

I can see your point. A couple of perps may have adjusted them.

Headrests moved up says to me that they were removed and replaced. I usually do this to fold the seat further forward or backward, for various reasons. The divers might have removed them to gain easier access to the back, if the only window open was Toni's. For divers, getting their gear snagged is a major concern, so they would be very cautious about anything that could snag their gear.
 
  • #170
Headrests being in the up position is very odd. But if the license plate is not on the car. Well this makes it extremely odd don't you think? Kind of hard to say suicide or or accident. Headrest still makes it very odd. And we can see that on video and photos.
 
  • #171
Is there a diver in the forums who can validate Ace's aquatic expertise!
 
  • #172
I have a question about treating family members as victims and the forum rules. It's always possible a family member is involved in a person going missing, being harmed or murdered. Look at high profile cases like the Scott Peterson case, Casey Anthony and Jon Ramsey. On the Ramsey thread it's being asked if the family members were involved in her murder. I'm sure there are other threads where the family members are being discussed as being involved.

I'm not understanding when it's alright to consider a family member or someone close to the victim being involved or discussing this.

Unless a family member is a POI and stated so by LE, then they are not under scrutiny and shouldn't be treated like a POI or a suspect. You may have your suspicions, but you don't slander a family member. Or anyone else that isn't POI for that matter. MOO


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  • #173
Would the divers removed the plates to verify the car was in fact Toni's before they went through the effort of bringing it up?
 
  • #174
Is there a diver in the forums who can validate Ace's aquatic expertise!

I think diving/swimming experience and experience in a sinking car in borderline freezing water, with a strong current, and fully clothed, are two different things.

I no doubt think that someone with experience as a swimmer/diver etc would have an advantage over someone without, but a lot has to go right really quickly in my opinion of you are in a sinking car. If in that situation, I would assume that it's a complete surprise and not something you were preparing for in the moments preceding. Divers/swimmers have the ability to think about what they are doing and follow a plan, before they ever get in the water.

Even something as simple as holding your breath when jumping into water is important. If something like this happens unexpectedly, you might not even hold your breath and be sucking in water from the word go. Your body then goes into survival mode reacting to water in your lungs etc. When in that panic mode, it's not likely that someone is going to be able to even think straight.


I'm not building a case for accident or suicide, because I personally have my doubts that this was the case - mostly because I believe she was at the dog park for a reason not by chance.

But, I do think that it's not hard to see how a car going into a river under these conditions, stacks the deck against even a skilled swimmer/diver. Neither a skilled swimmer or diver would think it's a good idea to test themselves under these circumstances. -- ie put yourself in a situation where you didn't have a chance to hold your breath and start the experience breathing in water.


http://vcsar4.org/past/Academy/rescue.htm

That link has some details on what I am talking about. It's not the same as jumping into a pool while holding your breath or diving while holding your breath. It's great if you can manage to do that, but it's not a given as situations like this are not expected, but complete surprise usually.
 
  • #175
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This is by Mythbusters as well in a controlled experiment. These may answer some questions as far as the window etc. I followed up on many of these answers and found them to be on point with these. It would seem her window had to be down as she was going in the water or just submerged but not too far. This is 1 reason I find the accident theory does not make sense. If she had her window down and seatbelt off, likely she was unconscious going in or it was staged. It would seem logical if she did those things last minute, but if she was conscious enough to do that, I believe she could have gotten out. She was a strong swimmer, a fighter in general. JMO


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  • #176
I doubt the diver had clear vision down there.
 
  • #177
Go to the video of Toni's car being towed away.
 
  • #178
Why would the Missouri highway patrol not remove the black SUV that was next to Toni's car when many fishermen were telling LE there was a vehicle in the water on Feb 12th?
 
  • #179
  • #180
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