Mortal Evidence - Cyril Wecht

  • #41
Originally posted by why_nutt
The question stands as to why her left arm is not raised in the photo.

why-nutt, it might be because by the time the coroner got there, the rigor mortis had begun to (or was gone) leave JB's body and when the coroner turned her over, he might have just left the arm down? Just guessing.

Interesting photo from Wecht's book. Thanks guys, for the link.
 
  • #42
Maybe JonBenet's left arm is under her head and hair? Her hair sure looks messy and matted.
 
  • #43
I still think Ratsy was trying to lighten her hair that night, & another fight inslued .Could this be part of Toilet Rage!
 
  • #44
That just doesn't even make sense!
 
  • #45
What don't you understand ,that Ratsy was attempting to lighten or BLEACH J.B.'s hair ,befor the big so called trip & they got into a fight, remember one of the dectives reported they smelled strong oders of chemicials in the bathroom adjacen to J.B. Room
 
  • #46
So why would a child who is beeing abused just up and begin to fight with her mother? And how do you know PR wasn't dying her hair? Has anyone found a dye box that was blond? Rest assured, if the dying was done that night, there would have been a box, gloves, chemical containers in the trash in JBR's bedroom too. Also, why were there never ANY photos of JonBenet with roots? I dye my hair and have for 13 years now, you don't smell chemicals after it has been washed out....you smell it during, but home dye jobs don't linger. So why didn't Patsy just kill her then and there? Why wait until the wee hours of the morning? To give her time to concoct a master plan?

That is why that makes no sense to me.
 
  • #47
Originally posted by ajt400
So why would a child who is beeing abused just up and begin to fight with her mother?
(1)She is starting to relize just what abuse is all about, remember JB him self said JB & Ratsy had a fight over what JB was wearing that night.She also was reported to have kicked her mother at a photo shot.


And how do you know PR wasn't dying her hair?

(2) Because she was not the one found with 3 pony tails ,as if the hair was seperated to exspose the roots.hair all mated up as if it had been wet

Has anyone found a dye box that was blond? Rest assured, if the dying was done that night, there would have been a box, gloves, chemical containers

(3)There may of been ,but it may of not been taken as evidence,men do not think of such things .

in the trash in JBR's bedroom too.
(4) WHY.
Also, why were there never ANY photos of JonBenet with roots?

(5)Did you not see the photo ,there were plenty of dark roots showing.



I dye my hair and have for 13 years now, you don't smell chemicals
(6)you do so ,especialy in a closed house as theirs was in the middle of winter.

after it has been washed out....you smell it during, but home dye jobs don't linger. So why didn't Patsy just kill her then and there?
(7)You said it ,you tell me.


Why wait until the wee hours of the morning? To give her time

to concoct a master plan?

(8)Who said she was killed in the wee houres of the morning, even the parents put the correct date on the JB's headstoneit reads 12-25 96 .

That is why that makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense because you do not want to see the truth !!
 
  • #48
Originally posted by ajt400
So why would a child who is beeing abused just up and begin to fight with her mother?
(1)She is starting to relize just what abuse is all about, remember JB him self said JB & Ratsy had a fight over what JB was wearing that night.She also was reported to have kicked her mother at a photo shot.


And how do you know PR wasn't dying her hair?

(2) Because she was not the one found with 3 pony tails ,as if the hair was seperated to exspose the roots.hair all mated up as if it had been wet

Has anyone found a dye box that was blond? Rest assured, if the dying was done that night, there would have been a box, gloves, chemical containers

(3)There may of been ,but it may of not been taken as evidence,men do not think of such things .

in the trash in JBR's bedroom too.
(4) WHY.
Also, why were there never ANY photos of JonBenet with roots?

(5)Did you not see the photo ,there were plenty of dark roots showing.



I dye my hair and have for 13 years now, you don't smell chemicals
(6)you do so ,especialy in a closed house as theirs was in the middle of winter.

after it has been washed out....you smell it during, but home dye jobs don't linger. So why didn't Patsy just kill her then and there?
(7)You said it ,you tell me.


Why wait until the wee hours of the morning? To give her time

to concoct a master plan?

(8)Who said she was killed in the wee houres of the morning, even the parents put the correct date on the JB's headstoneit reads 12-25 96 .

That is why that makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense because you do not want to see the truth !!
 
  • #49
Originally posted by ajt400
So why would a child who is beeing abused just up and begin to fight with her mother?
(1)She is starting to relize just what abuse is all about, remember JB him self said JB & Ratsy had a fight over what JB was wearing that night.She also was reported to have kicked her mother at a photo shot.


And how do you know PR wasn't dying her hair?

(2) Because she was not the one found with 3 pony tails ,as if the hair was seperated to exspose the roots.hair all mated up as if it had been wet

Has anyone found a dye box that was blond? Rest assured, if the dying was done that night, there would have been a box, gloves, chemical containers

(3)There may of been ,but it may of not been taken as evidence,men do not think of such things .

in the trash in JBR's bedroom too.
(4) WHY.
Also, why were there never ANY photos of JonBenet with roots?

(5)Did you not see the photo ,there were plenty of dark roots showing.



I dye my hair and have for 13 years now, you don't smell chemicals
(6)you do so ,especialy in a closed house as theirs was in the middle of winter.

after it has been washed out....you smell it during, but home dye jobs don't linger. So why didn't Patsy just kill her then and there?
(7)You said it ,you tell me.


Why wait until the wee hours of the morning? To give her time

to concoct a master plan?

(8)Who said she was killed in the wee houres of the morning, even the parents put the correct date on the JB's headstoneit reads 12-25 96 .

That is why that makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense because you do not want to see the truth !!
 
  • #50
Originally posted by Nehemiah
What do you mean, Maxi?

Interesting that you would say "hanging" because John Walsh's words about "John cut her down" have always stuck in my mind.

I do remember...don't know when...but recently...Yup: I remember JWalsh stating on LKL that " he(the father-JOHN) was alllowed to cut her(JonBenet) down...???...this is what I remember???!!!???...so now what???"...I even remember emailing JWalsh and they responded (JWALSH assocs) that they had done 4 episoides but none were available to the public...please help me understand..???!!!
 
  • #51
Originally posted by lannie
It makes no sense because you do not want to see the truth !!
[[

http://www.hwt.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5633323^1702,00.html

JonBenet DNA found 2yrs later... From correspondents in Colorado

A NEWLY released court document shows a DNA sample was discovered nearly two years after JonBenet Ramsey's slaying.

The document, released this week, is a 192-page transcript of Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner's deposition in a civil case involving the six-year-old girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey.
The sample was discovered sometime after September 1998, when a Boulder County grand jury convened to investigate the December 1996 slaying.

It is unclear where the DNA was discovered, but Beckner said it did not come from JonBenet's body or clothing, where previously disclosed DNA was found.

When asked today whether the DNA had been matched to anyone, Beckner declined to comment, citing his department's policy of not speaking publicly about the case.









The deposition was taken in Boulder in November 2001 by Atlanta attorney L Lin Wood.

Wood represents the Ramseys in a multimillion-dollar libel suit brought by Robert Christian Wolf, a former Boulder journalist whom the Ramseys identified as a suspect in their book, "The Death of Innocence".

Former prosecutor Michael Kane, who ran the 13-month grand jury investigation that ended without an indictment, declined to discuss the case.

"It's a past lifetime for me," he said from his Pennsylvania home.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' home on December 26, 1996.

Unmatched DNA found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear has long stumped detectives.

That genetic material does not match that of family members including her parents, whom police had said were under suspicion in their daughter's death.

The Ramseys, who have maintained their innocence, have never been charged
 
  • #52
Originally posted by Blazeboy3
[[

http://www.hwt.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5633323^1702,00.html

JonBenet DNA found 2yrs later... From correspondents in Colorado

A NEWLY released court document shows a DNA sample was discovered nearly two years after JonBenet Ramsey's slaying.

The document, released this week, is a 192-page transcript of Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner's deposition in a civil case involving the six-year-old girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey.
The sample was discovered sometime after September 1998, when a Boulder County grand jury convened to investigate the December 1996 slaying.

It is unclear where the DNA was discovered, but Beckner said it did not come from JonBenet's body or clothing, where previously disclosed DNA was found.

When asked today whether the DNA had been matched to anyone, Beckner declined to comment, citing his department's policy of not speaking publicly about the case.









The deposition was taken in Boulder in November 2001 by Atlanta attorney L Lin Wood.

Wood represents the Ramseys in a multimillion-dollar libel suit brought by Robert Christian Wolf, a former Boulder journalist whom the Ramseys identified as a suspect in their book, "The Death of Innocence".

Former prosecutor Michael Kane, who ran the 13-month grand jury investigation that ended without an indictment, declined to discuss the case.

"It's a past lifetime for me," he said from his Pennsylvania home.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' home on December 26, 1996.

Unmatched DNA found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear has long stumped detectives.

That genetic material does not match that of family members including her parents, whom police had said were under suspicion in their daughter's death.

The Ramseys, who have maintained their innocence, have never been charged

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: OK...HERE'S A MAJOR QUESTION ...?...: CAN "MONEY BUY FREEDOM/LOVE?"...Yes/No/ Maybe Sometimes???...??? ...NO!!! BUT MONEY CAN BUY THE ELITE/BEST COUNCIL in any court of law...as we heard today:Texas(Galvaston Billionaire) NOT GUILTY...": let's us all take NOTE!!!
 
  • #53
WHAT'S WRONG W/THIS STORY/PICTURE?:NOT GUILTY;Admits killing/dismembering neighbor...???

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=54&u_sid=914301

Millionaire suspect found not guilty of murder

GALVESTON, Texas (AP) - Eccentric New York millionaire Robert Durst, who said he accidentally killed a hot-tempered neighbor in self-defense and then dismembered the body in a panic, was found innocent Tuesday of murder.


Robert Durst
Jurors deliberated over five days, following nearly six weeks of testimony, before deciding that the real estate heir did not murder 71-year-old Morris Black, who lived across the hall from him in a low-rent apartment building.

Durst, 60, who is under suspicion in two other killings and who posed for a time as a mute woman, testified in his own defense for nearly four days. He insisted that Black was shot accidentally during a struggle over a gun, and said he used two saws and an ax to cut up the body. The victim's head has never been found.

Durst appeared stunned when he heard the verdict from state District Judge Susan Criss, standing with his mouth slightly open and his eyes filling with tears. He hugged his attorneys afterward, saying: "Thank you so much."

After the killing in late September 2001, Durst was a fugitive for six weeks until he was caught in Pennsylvania when he tried to shoplift a $5 sandwich even though he had $500 in his pocket.

At defense attorneys' request, jurors considered only a murder charge. They could have asked that jurors consider a lesser charge, such as manslaughter, in addition to murder, but opted for an all-or-nothing strategy.

If he had been convicted, Durst could have been sentenced to five to 99 years in prison and been fined up to $10,000.

Prosecutors called Durst a calculating, cold-blooded killer who shot Black to steal his identity. They said all his actions afterward, including cutting up the body and twice fleeing Galveston, were part of an elaborate plan to hide his guilt.

But defense attorneys contended Black was shot accidentally while the two men struggled for a gun after Durst found his neighbor illegally in his apartment. The defense said prosecutors failed to show jurors any motive for the killing or disprove self-defense.

"Whatever (Durst) did after Morris Black was dead cannot change how Morris Black died," defense attorney Dick DeGuerin said in his closing statement. "You can't convict Bob Durst simply because of that."

District Attorney Kurt Sistrunk said Durst cut up Black's body without hesitation, meticulously cleaned the crime scene, reserved a flight to leave the area and dumped the body but later returned to retrieve the head because it could identify his victim.

"Is it well planned and calculated? You bet it is," Sistrunk said.

Durst moved to Galveston in November 2000 disguised as a woman to escape scrutiny in New York after an investigation was reopened into the 1982 disappearance of his first wife, Kathleen. He used the name Dorothy Ciner, a childhood friend.

After he jumped bail in Black's killing, Galveston authorities learned he was wanted for questioning in his first wife's disappearance and in the Christmas Eve 2000 shooting death in Los Angeles of a friend, writer Susan Berman, who was set to be questioned about his missing wife.

He met Black while wearing his disguise but later dropped the masquerade and they became friends.

Durst's attorneys said the friendship soured because of the elderly man's increasingly aggressive behavior. Durst and other witnesses testified Black often got into fights and arguments.

Neighbors "could hear Morris Black two blocks down the road when he was in his rages," said Debra Monogan, who once lived upstairs from Black in South Carolina.

Prosecutors said Black was abrasive but not violent.

Durst testified that he found Black in his apartment on Sept. 28, 2001, and that Black armed himself with a gun Durst had hidden. During a struggle, the weapon fired, hitting Black in the face, he said.

Durst testified he did not recall details about dismembering the body, but when pressed by a prosecutor he said he remembered "a nightmare with blood everywhere."

"I remember like I was looking down on something and I was swimming in blood and I kept spitting up and spitting up and I don't know what is real and I don't know what is not real," Durst said.

He said he preferred not to use the term "murder" to describe Black's death.

"I like dying better. Killed implies like I killed him. I did not kill him," Durst said.
:"
"It was self-defense and an accident," he said"

Ok...I'm off to get my BIFOCULS-IN MY GLASSES/...???hello?what's missing in this picture...???
 
  • #54
Yes Blaze, I totally agree with you on this one. I was surprised that they found him not guilty. How could they? If the man accidently killed the guy did he accidently dismember him too? Most people could not do that? If it was an accident, why not call the cops? I believe this guy has got tons of other skeletons in his closet.......
 
  • #55
Originally posted by lannie
It makes no sense because you do not want to see the truth !!

No, it makes no sense because it makes no sense. And, no, I do not smell chemicals in my room or house when I dye my hair! And I don't open the windows, either. Once you wash the dye out and put the conditioner in your hair, you cannot smell the chemicals anymore. Go buy some hair dye, see for yourself. (I use blond as well)

Also, I would rather go by what the coroner said about the time of death, not what the R's put on the headstone. What pictures do you speak of with roots?

And, look at the color of her eyebrows...why are they not dark as well?

<NOTE: Dyeing eyebrows is more common now, but 8 years ago, people were told not to do it unless in a salon by a prfessional and the risk of blindness was jst as great.

Oh, and "Men do not think like that" Um, they were cops detectives, if they smelled chemicals, you would think they would want to know why the house reeked of chemicals....right?
 
  • #56
AJT400, I gave you 8 replies to your RANT, you only responded to 4 .
(1) If the dye was pored down the sink or tub,,It could smell strong
for a long ,long time ,from the looks of her hair from the photo from Dr .Cyrill Wecht's book it looks like the dye never was applied to her dark roots.This is the thread we are in look at the links that have been so kindly given to us in this thread ,are you SURE you are not a naturial Blonde ?? (no offence to other naturial blondes out there )
(2)Why would you go buy what the coroner said,
are you saying the Ram's LIED??
(3)Children often have light or sandy colored eyebrows ,everyone knowes Ratsy paid to have J.B.'s hair bleached & colored .
(4)They did make note of it in there reports ,that is how we know of the odor,are you now trying to say there was no odor & there reports were wrong ,LOL,maybe the chemicals disapated before they could be taken in as evidence,yes they,the boxes , could of been thrown out with the trash,a lot of things dissapered from that house, thanks to aunt Spam.
 
  • #57
Originally posted by Maxi
I smell the dye in my hair for at least one or two washes each time. I also smell it in the room, tho less so than on my hair. I would think the medical examiner would have mentioned an odd smell to JonBenet's hair. I do not think Patsy dyed or lightened JonBenet's hair that night.

Several people who knew the Ramseys reported that Patsy lightened JonBenet's hair. I don't think there is much question about it.

I have this question on the dyeing issue. Patsy has said that she dyed her hair on Christmas day. If she had in fact done this, then the color of her hair in the Christmas morning photo and perhaps the photos from the 23rd, should be noticeably different from the color of her hair as it appeared on the CNN appearance of January 1st, is that right? Does anyone who colors their hair see a difference in Patsy's hair color that would give credibility to her claim of Christmas-day coloring?

Floating this theory: If some sort of hairdye conflict arose on the evening of the 25th as part of a general effort on Patsy's part to make JonBenet a perfect little doll for Stewart Long to admire, as Patsy wanted to be admired herself, then could Patsy's story of dying her own hair be a cover story to explain the smell of dye chemicals? I have found sites which offer brush-in color which does not appear to need showering to set, but if my understanding of these products is incorrect and they do need water, then Patsy would have had to use a bathroom other than her own to color her hair (given the broken state of her shower facilities). The likely candidates would be JonBenet's bathroom and John Andrew's room where the bathroom showed evidence of someone using it recently. And while officers have not explicitly noted the smell of hair chemistry, they also did not note the smell of urine in the basement where JonBenet supposedly shed it before death. So, as does happen sometimes, maybe we have people present whose noses do not work well.
 
  • #58
Originally posted by Nehemiah
What do you mean, Maxi?

Interesting that you would say "hanging" because John Walsh's words about "John cut her down" have always stuck in my mind.

Sorry, Nehemiah, I just saw your question. The medicial examiner who did the Tate autopsies described a similar mark on one of the victims who was briefly hung with a rope thrown over the rafters. It was a mark from the rope.
 
  • #59
I smell the dye in my hair for at least one or two washes each time. I also smell it in the room, tho less so than on my hair. I would think the medical examiner would have mentioned an odd smell to JonBenet's hair. I do not think Patsy dyed or lightened JonBenet's hair that night.

Several people who knew the Ramseys reported that Patsy lightened JonBenet's hair. I don't think there is much question about it.
 
  • #60
Originally posted by ajt400
Hi Blaze!! What do you not agree with the fact that hair dye doesn't smell like a dead body? Or that Patsy didn't dye JBR's hair that night?

HEE HEE...You're TOO "funny!" I do not know what a "dead body smells like but I don't want to either!" ... don't know about hair dye smell and dead body smell being same... but don't want to know... IMHO "PATSY DID WHAT 'SHE BELIEVED WAS THE BEST THING TO DO!' ... FWIW I DO KNOW WHAT HAIR DYE SMELLS LIKE...DONE IT 'FEW TIMES" on kids(teenagers and myself45yrold!)!... no questions asked!... --- intinct?! ... what does it matter?
 

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