Motivation Report has been released

[otto]

"In the scathing report that spells out the evidence, logic and reasoning that led to his guilty verdict in Florence on 30 January, Judge Nencini also says Knox and her defence tried to tamper with evidence and pervert the truth by introducing prisoners as witnesses, whose testimony turned out to be false and induced by “other interests”.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/news-opini...nife-killed-meredith-says-judge#ixzz32UZD4gxy

 

[Meryl12]

I agree with the quote: " It is the Judge who decides and there is no doubt whatsoever who committed this crime".
Poor Amanda Knox has had her life destroyed, and we can only sit in our homes and watch helplessly.
(The unexpected dangers of travel and another county's legal system).

 

[redheadedgal]

So far we have 3 typos and 1 mistake made in 2008 (corrected many years ago). Seriously, why would Italy care about what the US media has to say? Nobody takes that WTF stuff seriously. Why even post that here?

why post it here?

b/c this is the thread to discuss the motivation.

b/c it's an analysis/opinion by an independent criminal law attorney.

= much more valid imo than the TJMK links that some post here.


italy might not care. can't say the same for the ECHR.

 

[redheadedgal]

Burleigh believes Knox is being held accountable for the murder because prosecutors don't want to admit their mistakes stemming from the very beginning of the case.

"When prosecutors make mistakes they don't like to turn around and admit it," Burleigh said.

"Perugia is a walled mountain town ... When a stranger comes to town, something happens, they need to get the crime solved ... What happened here is the Italian system, unfortunately, is protecting itself."

At this point, Burleigh said, Italian judges are taking a second look at the earlier mistakes to make things "look right" in light of global scrutiny.

"I'm compelled from the amount of information that I collected for my book over the years to say that the latest report from these judges is completely illogical. It's laughably illogical.”

http://newday.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05...is-innocent-and-italian-judges-are-illogical/

 

[otto]

I agree with the quote: " It is the Judge who decides and there is no doubt whatsoever who committed this crime".
Poor Amanda Knox has had her life destroyed, and we can only sit in our homes and watch helplessly.
(The unexpected dangers of travel and another county's legal system).

Meredith Kercher had her life destroyed. Patrick Lumumba had his life destroyed. Knox destroyed her own life by participating in a murder and lying to investigators during a murder investigation.

 

[redheadedgal]

You are assuming that the cleaning was adequate. Where is the proof? The proof only comes from running duplicate samples and proper controls, neither of which are available(conveniently). As I have stated in my introductory post to this site, I have an M.D. and a PhD the latter of which is in genetics. Trust me when I tell you that lab contamination is not that rare, especially at the low levels of DNA obtained from the knife. That's why low content DNA should be analyzed in specificly designed high quality labs with specially designed laminar flow hoods to minimize contamination. Even under those condition, duplicate samples with the apprpriate controls need to be run to ensure proper identification without contamination.

thank you for taking the time to become "verified" Bill. it certainly adds even more credibility to your assertions. or it should imo.

do you know if any independent (not connected to the case) scientists like yourself have spoken out to agree with the case's evidence? i know there are more than a dozen from the US, the UK, and italy (iirc), now including you, who have vehemently disagreed...

 

[otto]

thank you for taking the time to become "verified" Bill. it certainly adds even more credibility to your assertions. or it should imo.

do you know if any independent (not connected to the case) scientists like yourself have spoken out to agree with the case's evidence? i know there are more than a dozen from the US, the UK, and italy (iirc), now including you, who have vehemently disagreed...

<modsnip>

Do you also discredit the DNA analysis/assessment that was done several months ago by an independent lab in the UK? Their conclusion was that there was clear evidence that Sollecito's DNA was on Meredith's bra. There was no wiggle room. Apparently the lab that did the work is highly accredited and no one from the US can discredit it for any reason ... yet the conclusion remains the same: there is evidence that Sollecito handled Meredith's bra, but there is no history between Sollecito and Meredith that would explain this ... although Sollecito did provide a false story about Meredith cooking at his apartment.

If this wasn't about the presumed (PR Firm) pretty Seattle woman, it would be about the lying woman from the US that implicated a black man during a murder investigation and whose conviction for murder was upheld by the highest court in Italy.

 

[Footwarrior]

<modsnip>

Do you also discredit the DNA analysis/assessment that was done several months ago by an independent lab in the UK? Their conclusion was that there was clear evidence that Sollecito's DNA was on Meredith's bra. There was no wiggle room. Apparently the lab that did the work is highly accredited and no one from the US can discredit it for any reason.

Without a link it's rather hard to discuss validity or the independence of the lab that did the assessment.

[modsnip]

 

[whoanellie]

Without a link it's rather hard to discuss validity or the independence of the lab that did the assessment.

[modsnip]

I believe Otto is referring to this article by Prof. Balding in PNAS.

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/30/12241.full

[modsnip] important caveat from Balding:

"Note that I cannot address here issues of how the DNA came
to be in the exhibit: Possible contamination was an issue in the
trial and appeal. I only consider whether there is DNA from
Sollecito for which the evidence remains very strong after
allowing for the additional alleles identified by Vecchiotti and
Conti (2) and the possibility that apparent stutters are allelic."

As even Balding acknowledges, the question is and always has been whether the presence of the DNA matching RS was the result of contamination.

Possible contamination remains an important issue with the bra clasp DNA. Extensive criticism of how Nencini handled the contamination issue is available via google search.

 

[Salem]

The GroundReport is not a valid news magazine and as such, is not allowed. It is like the examiner and there is no way to validate any author's credentials.

Salem

 

[redheadedgal]

<modsnip>

Do you also discredit the DNA analysis/assessment that was done several months ago by an independent lab in the UK? Their conclusion was that there was clear evidence that Sollecito's DNA was on Meredith's bra. There was no wiggle room.

his work is not "discredited". but he does say:

Note that I cannot address here issues of how the DNA came to be in the exhibit: Possible contamination was an issue in the trial and appeal. I only consider whether there is DNA from Sollecito for which the evidence remains very strong after allowing for the additional alleles identified by Vecchiotti and Conti (2) and the possibility that apparent stutters are allelic.

in no way does this affirm that there was no contamination.

 

[redheadedgal]

david balding also peer viewed this article supporting the defense's critique of the evidence against K/S

http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2013.00177/full

scholarly peer review: Peer review - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bill C]

thank you for taking the time to become "verified" Bill. it certainly adds even more credibility to your assertions. or it should imo.

do you know if any independent (not connected to the case) scientists like yourself have spoken out to agree with the case's evidence? i know there are more than a dozen from the US, the UK, and italy (iirc), now including you, who have vehemently disagreed...

To my knowledge, the only "expert" that seems to agree with Steffanoni's work is her boss and he obviously has a vested interest. I, like Dr. Balding, can't argue with the fact that Raf's DNA was found on the bra clasp. With Raf attempting to break down Merideth's door it seems likely that his fingerprints and DNA would be on the ourside handle (interesting why this was never dusted for prints or sampled for DNA). With the number of people who obviously entered the room from the discovery of the body to the collection of the bra clasp, it seems eminantly possible, if not probable, that Raf's DNA got transferred into the room. We know that the bra clasp moved about the room and was handled by several people, some of whom had obviously dirty gloves. Is it such a stretch of the immagination to speculate that there was secondary or tertiary transfer of Raf's DNA to the bra clasp, especially when 3-4 UNKNOWN Y-haplotypes were found on the clasp? If I were running the investigation now, I would attempt to get DNA samples from every known male who entered the room from the time of body discovery to bra clasp collection and compare their DNA to the unknown Y-haplotypes found on the bra clasp. If there was a match, it would PROVE that the clasp was contaminated and would be a powerful argument for eliminating the bra clasp as evidence.

 

[otto]

I believe Otto is referring to this article by Prof. Balding in PNAS.

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/30/12241.full

[modsnip] important caveat from Balding:

"Note that I cannot address here issues of how the DNA came
to be in the exhibit: Possible contamination was an issue in the
trial and appeal. I only consider whether there is DNA from
Sollecito for which the evidence remains very strong after
allowing for the additional alleles identified by Vecchiotti and
Conti (2) and the possibility that apparent stutters are allelic."

As even Balding acknowledges, the question is and always has been whether the presence of the DNA matching RS was the result of contamination.

Possible contamination remains an important issue with the bra clasp DNA. Extensive criticism of how Nencini handled the contamination issue is available via google search.

I think Balding merely clarifies that he is not addressing any questions of contamination. He concludes that the DNA on Meredith's bra does belong to Sollecito.

 

[otto]

To my knowledge, the only "expert" that seems to agree with Steffanoni's work is her boss and he obviously has a vested interest. I, like Dr. Balding, can't argue with the fact that Raf's DNA was found on the bra clasp. With Raf attempting to break down Merideth's door it seems likely that his fingerprints and DNA would be on the ourside handle (interesting why this was never dusted for prints or sampled for DNA). With the number of people who obviously entered the room from the discovery of the body to the collection of the bra clasp, it seems eminantly possible, if not probable, that Raf's DNA got transferred into the room. We know that the bra clasp moved about the room and was handled by several people, some of whom had obviously dirty gloves. Is it such a stretch of the immagination to speculate that there was secondary or tertiary transfer of Raf's DNA to the bra clasp, especially when 3-4 UNKNOWN Y-haplotypes were found on the clasp? If I were running the investigation now, I would attempt to get DNA samples from every known male who entered the room from the time of body discovery to bra clasp collection and compare their DNA to the unknown Y-haplotypes found on the bra clasp. If there was a match, it would PROVE that the clasp was contaminated and would be a powerful argument for eliminating the bra clasp as evidence.

If Sollecito's DNA was transferred to Meredith's underwear because he touched a doorknob, then there should also be DNA from everyone else that touched the doorknob.

 

[sindydee]

To my knowledge, the only "expert" that seems to agree with Steffanoni's work is her boss and he obviously has a vested interest. I, like Dr. Balding, can't argue with the fact that Raf's DNA was found on the bra clasp. With Raf attempting to break down Merideth's door it seems likely that his fingerprints and DNA would be on the ourside handle (interesting why this was never dusted for prints or sampled for DNA). With the number of people who obviously entered the room from the discovery of the body to the collection of the bra clasp, it seems eminantly possible, if not probable, that Raf's DNA got transferred into the room. We know that the bra clasp moved about the room and was handled by several people, some of whom had obviously dirty gloves. Is it such a stretch of the immagination to speculate that there was secondary or tertiary transfer of Raf's DNA to the bra clasp, especially when 3-4 UNKNOWN Y-haplotypes were found on the clasp? If I were running the investigation now, I would attempt to get DNA samples from every known male who entered the room from the time of body discovery to bra clasp collection and compare their DNA to the unknown Y-haplotypes found on the bra clasp. If there was a match, it would PROVE that the clasp was contaminated and would be a powerful argument for eliminating the bra clasp as evidence.

The only evidence collected from the cottage containing a sample of his DNA (mixed with Knox's)was found on a cigarette butt in the kitchen (i may be mistaken but from what I can see this was taken into evidence sometime 2-4th) The bra clasp was found 43 days after the murder happened, in a sealed crime scene.

I don't think it could happen how you said above, because they were collected at different times. Although I am still trying to learn about this so correct me if I am wrong.

What are the ways that the DNA can be transferred from the cigarette butt, that was collected over 40 days earlier onto the bra clasp?

You mention dirty gloves, so does this mean that someone would have to have handled the cig, took the gloves off, saved them and put them back on to handle the bra clasp.

Is another possiblity is someone could have touched the bra clasp on the day the cig was found, then pretended that it wasn't there and none of the technicians had seen it?

Also at this point, I am assuming they had no idea that the DNA on the cig belonged to him, so the above theory makes no sense. What are the other possibilities?

Also the DNA was mixed with Amandas so would hers not show up to?

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Bra_Clasp#Tertiary_Transfer

 

[otto]

The only evidence collected from the cottage containing a sample of his DNA (mixed with Knox's)was found on a cigarette butt in the kitchen (i may be mistaken but from what I can see this was taken into evidence sometime 2-4th) The bra clasp was found 43 days after the murder happened, in a sealed crime scene.

I don't think it could happen how you said above, because they were collected at different times. Although I am still trying to learn about this so correct me if I am wrong.

What are the ways that the DNA can be transferred from the cigarette butt, that was collected over 40 days earlier onto the bra clasp?

You mention dirty gloves, so does this mean that someone would have to have handled the cig, took the gloves off, saved them and put them back on to handle the bra clasp.

Is another possiblity is someone could have touched the bra clasp on the day the cig was found, then pretended that it wasn't there and none of the technicians had seen it?

Also at this point, I am assuming they had no idea that the DNA on the cig belonged to him, so the above theory makes no sense. What are the other possibilities?

Also the DNA was mixed with Amandas so would hers not show up to?

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Bra_Clasp#Tertiary_Transfer

That's a great point! The contamination theory has been addressed and there isn't any substance to it, but it is the only excuse available regarding Sollecito's DNA on Meredith's underwear.

 

[sindydee]

That's a great point! The contamination theory has been addressed and there isn't any substance to it, but it is the only excuse available regarding Sollecito's DNA on Meredith's underwear.

Ramble over lol. Was just replying to the above post. Probably belongs on a different thread.

 

[Footwarrior]

The only evidence collected from the cottage containing a sample of his DNA (mixed with Knox's)was found on a cigarette butt in the kitchen (i may be mistaken but from what I can see this was taken into evidence sometime 2-4th) The bra clasp was found 43 days after the murder happened, in a sealed crime scene.

I don't think it could happen how you said above, because they were collected at different times. Although I am still trying to learn about this so correct me if I am wrong.

What are the ways that the DNA can be transferred from the cigarette butt, that was collected over 40 days earlier onto the bra clasp?

You mention dirty gloves, so does this mean that someone would have to have handled the cig, took the gloves off, saved them and put them back on to handle the bra clasp.

The mistake is assuming that every spot in the cottage was tested for DNA. But in fact, only a limited number of spots were tested. We know Raffaele's DNA would likely be found on the doorknob to Meredith's room, but that spot was never swabbed for DNA.

 

[Bill C]

That's a great point! The contamination theory has been addressed and there isn't any substance to it, but it is the only excuse available regarding Sollecito's DNA on Meredith's underwear.

The mistake is assuming that every spot in the cottage was tested for DNA. But in fact, only a limited number of spots were tested. We know Raffaele's DNA would likely be found on the doorknob to Meredith's room, but that spot was never swabbed for DNA.

I was about to make the same point but you beat me to it.