Mr. Chaz Bono on Oprah, Mon. May 9, 2011

[shana]

On the Troy Davis thread last night, I posted an intentionally naive comment: Thankful for my education. (re the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, learned decades ago).

Life is about learning. There is much we do not know and will not know by the time we leave. Knowledge evolves daily and adds to our education, like it or not. Being receptive to new info is our right and our duty, no matter how we put it into the mix of what we think we knew and eventually conclude. Sometimes, we learn to change our minds. Imagine that! :-o

There was a time not so long ago in this country when white ppl feared blood transfusions from African-Americans.

I'm most thankful for gitana's extensive research provided on this thread...ticking the Thanks button was just not enough.

 

[gitana1]

Shana, thank you too. I really appreciate that.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

And there are topics that some would rather go by their beliefs and faith about without needing to research it.

Sorry. It is what it is.

There are some topics I'm not willing to budge on or "educate" myself on. There are some topics that defy or cross lines or morality for ME.

There is "science" that can make you question everything in life. There is also a person's right to not choose to question things they believe or don't believe in.

Has nothing to do with education. Has everything to do with one's personal walk.

JMO

ETA: OT- Science told my 37 year old brother in law he would live around 2 weeks (2 wks ago) but we decided to live on Faith Hope and Love.
Today he got VERY GOOD news. He's not going anywhere anytime soon. Thank God.
I believe sometimes the scientific community could educate themselves by looking at how us uneducated people live sometimes.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-granted-gender-and-name-change/

Chaz Bono is officially a man and has his new name.

A judge on Thursday granted a request to change the name and gender of the 41-year-old writer, activist and reality TV star.

Chaz Bono was born a girl, named Chastity, to Sonny Bono and Cher and underwent a gender-change operation last year.

Bono was represented in court by attorney Kristina Wertz of the Transgender Law Center. Wertz says the judge’s order is an important step in Chaz Bono’s transition and will allow him to reflect his new identity on a variety of official documents.

Wertz says in a statement, “Chaz couldn’t be happier.”

Given that Chaz has legally changed his gender ... not to mention all of the other trouble he's gone through to become better aligned with his true gender identity ... it seems only appropriate to refer to Chaz as "he" and refrain from calling him by his former female name.

To do otherwise - well - would seem intentionally disrepectful & intolerant, or at the very least, willfully ignorant.

IMO ... whatever defense one claims, referring to Chaz as "she" rather smacks of bullying.

:cow:

 

[Emma Peel]

On the Troy Davis thread last night, I posted an intentionally naive comment: Thankful for my education. (re the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, learned decades ago).

Life is about learning. There is much we do not know and will not know by the time we leave. Knowledge evolves daily and adds to our education, like it or not. Being receptive to new info is our right and our duty, no matter how we put it into the mix of what we think we knew and eventually conclude. Sometimes, we learn to change our minds. Imagine that! :-o

There was a time not so long ago in this country when white ppl feared blood transfusions from African-Americans.

I'm most thankful for gitana's extensive research provided on this thread...ticking the Thanks button was just not enough.

:thumb:

yes, thanks gitana.

And, oh my! How I agree with the BBM above.

:yes: Learning & loving is the way I try to "walk" my walk in this precious life.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Saying she is bullying?
Bullying? Really???


Saying she is correct. No matter what she is "legally" called.

JMO

 

[TrackerSam]

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-granted-gender-and-name-change/



Given that Chaz has legally changed his gender ... not to mention all of the other trouble he's gone through to become better aligned with his true gender identity ... it seems only appropriate to refer to Chaz as "he" and refrain from calling him by his former female name.

To do otherwise - well - would seem intentionally disrepectful & intolerant, or at the very least, willfully ignorant.

IMO ... whatever defense one claims, referring to Chaz as "she" rather smacks of bullying.

:cow:

You can't change your gender - period. To claim otherwise is PC delusional.

 

[animlzrule]

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-granted-gender-and-name-change/



Given that Chaz has legally changed his gender ... not to mention all of the other trouble he's gone through to become better aligned with his true gender identity ... it seems only appropriate to refer to Chaz as "he" and refrain from calling him by his former female name.

To do otherwise - well - would seem intentionally disrepectful & intolerant, or at the very least, willfully ignorant.

IMO ... whatever defense one claims, referring to Chaz as "she" rather smacks of bullying.

:cow:

BBM Absolutely Emma. I know people are scared of what they don't understand (or what they are unwilling or incapable of educating themselves about) but geez, what purpose does it serve to actively perpetuate hateful, intolerant behaviors other than to try to hurt another person??? Walk away, treat others as you wish to be treated and live by your own principles....fine. But why purposefully be spiteful and mean? Why intentionally hurt someone? Our children are watching, be an example for them. Stop the ignorance, hate and bullying.

I had never watched the show before and don't know if I will again, but I have to say Chaz did a very admirable job, as did most of the contestants. It takes guts to get up there and do that, not to mention when you have become such a target of scorn and ridicule. Good on him!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It's not that many are uneducated or unwilling... it's that other's have different OPINIONS on the matter.

There is a difference.

She made the choice to go on a media tour to discuss her "change". She should respect that there are many in the world that think no matter what she does, she will always be a woman.

Saying she is what I believe SHE is. It's my opinion.

How is saying the word she bullying?
How is saying the word she hateful or intolerant?

She choose this spotlight.

Nobody would be talking about this at all had she not put it out there. When you do that, you must take the good responses with the bad.

EVERYBODY is entitled to have an opinion. And I do.

 

[TrackerSam]

BBM But why purposefully be spiteful and mean? Why intentionally hurt someone? Our children are watching, be an example for them. Stop the ignorance, hate and bullying.

You claim it - now name it. Who's being spiteful and mean by expressing the opinion that gender can't be changed? Who's being "intentionally hurt" by expressing the opinion that gender can't be changed? Better to stop the PC delusional crap and tell the truth. Tell the truth - our children are watching.
Chaz (because you can change your name) Bono, is not now and will never be a man. Our children are watching so tell the truth - for the children.

 

[animlzrule]

You claim it - now name it. Who's being spiteful and mean by expressing the opinion that gender can't be changed? Who's being "intentionally hurt" by expressing the opinion that gender can't be changed? Better to stop the PC delusional crap and tell the truth. Tell the truth - our children are watching.
Chaz (because you can change your name) Bono, is not now and will never be a man. Our children are watching so tell the truth - for the children.

Gender is much more complex than what is dangling (or isn't) between the legs. This individual identifies as male, has legally changed his gender to male and lives as a male. What purpose can it possibly serve to insist to his face, for example, over and over----but you're female!!!?? Why? It's not true. He lives his life as a male. By insisting on refusing to recognize his identity, one in turn can dehumanize him and perpetuate the intolerance and bigotry and fear of others we don't recognize as being like ourselves. And what is the purpose of that? He's a person. He identifies as male. It's not harmful, dangerous, shameful....and he deserves to not have people denying to him an identity that makes him feel whole and who he is. It's crazy making to do otherwise. When one dehumanizes another, it makes it easier to act on base emotions and lash out in fear. Why choose to treat people that way?? It's bullying, it's mean, and it's wrong. Kids need to be taught tolerance, and it starts at home.

 

[animlzrule]

Gender is much more complex than what is dangling (or isn't) between the legs. This individual identifies as male, has legally changed his gender to male and lives as a male. What purpose can it possibly serve to insist to his face, for example, over and over----but you're female!!!?? Why? It's not true. He lives his life as a male. By insisting on refusing to recognize his identity, one in turn can dehumanize him and perpetuate the intolerance and bigotry and fear of others we don't recognize as being like ourselves. And what is the purpose of that? He's a person. He identifies as male. It's not harmful, dangerous, shameful....and he deserves to not have people denying to him an identity that makes him feel whole and who he is. It's crazy making to do otherwise. When one dehumanizes another, it makes it easier to act on base emotions and lash out in fear. Why choose to treat people that way?? It's bullying, it's mean, and it's wrong. Kids need to be taught tolerance, and it starts at home.

Actually, upon reviewing my post, I realize this: Kids need to be taught tolerance, and it starts at home. is wrong. Children are born remarkably tolerant. It is family and the people around them that can influence whether or not they stay that way. Why choose to introduce intolerance into a child's worldview??? It's sad.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Who is in her face?
We are discussing a topic on WS!

You make it sound like people who don't agree (like me) are running around shouting at her. That would be bullying.

Discussing a topic here, and being honest about your opinion is not bullying.

Chaz knows this is a controversial topic. Isn't that why she's advocating?

Surely no one expects everybody in the world to agree with operations such as this.

Also, check out the suicide rates, the regret, and the health issues that often follow this type of operation.
It's not all roses and cotton candy.

It's deciding to undergo major surgeries and pumping your body full of hormones that are not naturally occurring in your body because you are not the correct sex for those hormones.

It's not natural or healthy.

I personally think this kind of procedure should be against the law.

But, that's just MY opinion.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Actually, upon reviewing my post, I realize this: Kids need to be taught tolerance, and it starts at home. is wrong. Children are born remarkably tolerant. It is family and the people around them that can influence whether or not they stay that way. Why choose to introduce intolerance into a child's worldview??? It's sad.

To teach my children that is ok would be even more sad IMO.

People who scream tolerance are often the most intolerant to others' personal beliefs.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

How many psychological disorders do we know of where surgery is the answer?

Most times, psychological disorders are treated with medication and counseling.

Wouldn't it make more sense to try to get to the bottom of why someone has this phychological disorder and work on treating the MIND?

Wouldn't major surgery to change your physical self be kind of ineffecient in treating a mental condition? I think the answer is yes. And I think there is a lot of info out there that supports my opinion.

This is just an example, before anyone says anything about the race issue, it was not meant to be racist in any way.... Just an example...

If I had a disorder where I felt I was a black girl trapped in a white girl's body, would I have surgery to change the color of my skin? Or would I get help to find out why I felt that way and try to change the way I feel?

IMO you don't use surgery to mask or treat a mental disorder.

 

[animlzrule]

<modsnip>

Wee wee'd up? Yes, I guess in these times where bullying has exacted such a tragic and irreversible price as to be costing young people their lives, I do tend to beat my head in frustration when I see people blithely banter about "just opinions" when those "opinions" are actually cloaked in bigoted speech. Chaz Bono is different. He is not deviant. He is an actual living, breathing, human being with feelings, worth etc.....not a circus freak. As adults, lets lead by example and accept people for who they are. DWTS did not make a grand announcement, "Introducing, Chaz Bono, transgendered individual!!!!" The only way children know about his circumstances is from parents/adults allowing them to view adult content whether it be on TV, radio, internet, newspapers and railing about it in their presence. By virtue of their parents/adults negative, disbelieving response, they are being indoctrinated to view people such as Chaz Bono as spectacles to be analyzed and investigated with suspicion. Why do that? If I were to watch the show with my son, he would recognize Chaz Bono as a man, there would be no question on his part, and therefore, no controversy. He would never know Chaz changed his gender unless I told him or exposed him to adult content. I just can't believe it is 2011 and these kind of debates are raging on. We really need more division amongst the human race???? Really???? About whether someone identifies themselves as male or female???

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I have never had to explain transgender to my 13 year old DD.
Never thought it was necessary.
And she never asked about it.

But, her favorite show... DWTS forced that upon me.

My 13 year old was confused as all get out. Her first question... Is that a man? Looks like a girl.

I told her Chaz was a woman who is living as a man. (100% truth)

Next question.... Why?
Answer...Ummm because she wants to.

Next question.... But she IS a girl right. Just pretending to be a boy.
Answer... Well she is taking certain steps and having surgeries to look more like a man.

Next question... People can do that???
Answer: yes they can. But, I believe God is the one who gets to decide that. I don't think we should change that.

Now... That's not teaching hate. It's not teaching intolerance. It's teaching my child in a way I think is appropriate due to our beliefs.

My child knows not to treat people different because they are not like us. But, she also knows she can have feelings and opinions and she has every right to have them.

We don't have a hateful household.

 

[Kimster]

Once again the topic of sexual preferences has caused me to get alerts. I've removed the most heated posts but if you guys want to discuss this issue, it better calm down real quick or I'll close the thread.

This is a crime forum and I really don't have time to moderate volatile topics that aren't in the realm of crime.

 

[Emma Peel]

We can all agree that it's a parent's responsibility to address these issues as they see fit with their minor children.

*************

Again - and because this happens to be a salient point here - Chaz has legally changed his gender. NOT JUST HIS NAME.

Chaz has legally changed his gender - which is allowed for in the laws of his state.

There's just no argument to be had that Chaz is male and therefore a "he" on this without challenging law.

Furthermore, Chaz agrees, and applied for the change with the evidence that he's a transgendered person. He's not hiding this fact. He is what he is. And referring to him as a "she" is wrong.

But Chaz has made his choice and it's legal and done. There is absolutely no reason to refer to him as "she", unless you are actively compelled to dis (as in disrespect) his sexual preferences and trying (as in actively denying) his rights to be a legally transgendered person and - legally - male.

Fortunately, we have laws supporting and recognizing Chad's right to be transgendered as male. We also have laws that say you can't prevent someone's employment based on sexual preference discrimination.

Which brings us full circle with the fact that ... it's actually against the law to seek to deny Chaz the right to his work as a celebrity contestant on Dancing with the Stars because of his sexual preferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States#Employment_discrimination
The states banning sexual orientation discrimination in employment are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin (the first state to do so, in 1982).

Even Gloria Allred is ready to go to the mat for Chaz on this one.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQNtbtEQ_I"]Attorney Gloria Allred & Robin Tyler respond to hateful comments made towards Chaz Bono - YouTube[/ame]

IMO - Gloria's hit the nail on the head. And - with great respect for WS as a Crime Forum - Ms. Allred & Ms. Tyler client explain in some detail the crime involved in this particular topic of discussion.

:cow:

 

[Emma Peel]

You can't change your gender - period. To claim otherwise is PC delusional.

Chaz changed his gender via the steps he's taken to become transgendered. And he changed his gender legally. Documentation of this has been provided on the thread. To claim otherwise is a violation of his legal right to be accepted as male.

And that's not an opinion. It's a fact.