MSNBC Breaking News

[christine2448]

Just now, announced Patsy had died from ovarian cancer.

Just heard...wow.

 

[cappuccina]

"reunited" with her daughter JonBenet (if one belives in that sort of thing), because, IMO, she will be going south, to a much warmer place, honey (if you know what I mean)!

Tricia, I completely agree with you. It is very disturbing that PR never confessed, and that she lied and deceived and was arrogant about it all until
the end. JMO...

Also, IMO, the ONLY reasons this case never went to trial is due to major evidence contamination (i.e., chain of custody breaks that would never hold up in court), and because in some way, I think JR was involved in some type of deal with Alex Hunter and perhaps others that we will never know about. I don't know if he had info. on someone that he could trade for not brining the case forward or what...This is a gut feeling I have had for years.

Now of course, murder cases have been tried with far less evidence, and with evidence just as contaminated as thie evidence in this case was....That's why I continue to wonder what else went on...



I'm sorry to not have more respect for the dead, but this woman's horrific acts of violence towards her own child, her utter disregard for what she did, coupled with her belief that the norms of human conduct didn't apply to her makes me quite ill... :sick: :sick: :sick:

 

[Wudge]

Even though a Grand Jury did not indict the Ramseys (and properly so), the sad, erroneous and horrendous demonization of the Ramseys by the crimetainment media, and by those who blindly feed on its reporting, marks this case as one of the great injustices in contemporary times.

I rank this case ranks alongside of Dr. Sam Sheppard's conviction, whereby jurors chose to totally ignore exonerating evidence that the defense presented in the first trial. It also ranks close to the many child-care, satanic abuse trials in the 80's and early 90's, wherein over 40 people were wrongfully convicted and imprisoned.

As if her long battle with ovarian cancer was not enough, Patsy endured an incredible amount of suffering and heartbreak over Jon Benet's murder and the resulting fallout. At least that has finally come to end.

God bless her and her family.

 

[Romigirl]

I've followed this case from the beginning. I've read every book published and most of the websites referred to in this, and other, chat groups. I've read all of the published public documents re: this case. I subscribe to Websleuths and read it frequently. I usually choose not to speak, but rather to listen to the contributors to this site. Today, for me, is different.

From very early on in this case, contrary to over-riding public opinion, I did not believe Jon Benet Ramsey was murdered by anyone in her family. I still believe that.

God bless you Patsy Ramsey. May you now finally rest in peace with your daughter and find the serenity denied to you in life. My prayers are with you and your loving family at this time.

 

[Old Broad]

I've followed this case from the beginning. I've read every book published and most of the websites referred to in this, and other, chat groups. I've read all of the published public documents re: this case. I subscribe to Websleuths and read it frequently. I usually choose not to speak, but rather to listen to the contributors to this site. Today, for me, is different.

From very early on in this case, contrary to over-riding public opinion, I did not believe Jon Benet Ramsey was murdered by anyone in her family. I still believe that.

God bless you Patsy Ramsey. May you now finally rest in peace with your daughter and find the serenity denied to you in life. My prayers are with you and your loving family at this time.

Romigirl you have put into words what I didn't know how to say. I've read the posts here but did not want to put down anything to cause an upset. Today reading that Patsy had passed away, the only feeling I've had has been sadness for her, for JonBenet and everyone else in the family.
Thank you for posting!

Old Broad

 

[rashomon]

and just in case anyone is getting misty eyed at the love Lin Wood is showing today let me remind you of Mr. Wood's own words during a deposition with attorney Darnay Hoffman concerning the Ramsey case. Bold is mine.

0200
1 "MR. WOOD: Hey, I made more money
2 handling the Ramsey case than you've made in
3 your whole damn career practicing law, Darnay.
4 MR. HOFFMAN: -- instead of settling
5 for chump change, which you've done in all these
6 other cases, you're actually getting paid a
7 decent --
8 MR. WOOD: I've made more money in
9 the Ramsey case than you've made in your entire
10 career as a lawyer, you want to bet on that?"
http://www.acandyrose.com/index2.htm

How proud Lin is.

I think that in thruth, Lin Wood doesn't care one bit if the Ramseys did it or not - it is the high-profile case where fame and money are in for him which is his driving force. He is right up there with types like Mesereau who defended M. Jackson, Geragos who defended S. Peterson and the lawyers who defended O.J. Simpson.
And if asked, these lawyers would probably only shrug their shoulders and say: "So what? We are doing a defense lawyer's job, that's all. Our duty is only to our client. It's the prosecution who has the burden of proof, not the defense lawyer." And from the perspective of the law, they are right.
Which makes me think of something the great Vincent Bugliosi said:

"Certainly the prosecutor, judge, and jury want the truth to come out. Not so with the defense attorney. If his client is guilty, which is usually the case, the very last thing in the world he wants to come out is the truth."

Ramsey lawyer Wood (doing his lawyer talk) said that Patsy will always be remembered as someone who was falsely accused in connection with the death of her daughter.
But I think that many people will remember Patsy as someone who should have been charged in connection with the death of her daughter but who escaped earthly justice.

 

[mssheila]

I'm not a poster in this forum, but I do check for updates frequently. Jonbenet's death was always such a mystery to me. I've read Schillers book, and Steve Thomas' book, and the Ramsey's book. I just don't know what to believe. I don't know if Patsy did it or not, but today's news made me more sad than I thought it would. I knew she was sick, but I just feel so sad that she has passed away. I'm a fence sitter. I waffle between believing in her innocence and her guilt.

But today, I will only say that I hope she has found peace. I will pray for her family during this very difficult time.

 

[arielilane]

I think that in thruth, Lin Wood doesn't care one bit if the Ramseys did it or not - it is the high-profile case where fame and money are in for him which is his driving force. He is right up there with types like Mesereau who defended M. Jackson, Geragos who defended S. Peterson and the lawyers who defended O.J. Simpson.
And if asked, these lawyers would probably only shrug their shoulders and say: "So what? We are doing a defense lawyer's job, that's all. Our duty is only to our client. It's the prosecution who has the burden of proof, not the defense lawyer." Ramsey lawyer Wood (doing his laywer talk) said that Patsy will always be remembered as someoe who was falsely accused in connection with the death of her daughter.
But I think that many people will remember Patsy as someone who should have been charged in connection with the death of her daughter but who escaped earthly justice.

I agree.

I will add Lin Wood is a high paid attorney, making his money.
My only condolence is to Burke.

 

[bykerladi]

My first response to hearing of her death was "Now we will never know the truth." We will never know what made her do that to her beautiful little child.


And, as I'm reading this thread, it occurred to me, that perhaps she has already suffered - her guilt turned around and, perhaps, caused the reoccurance of her cancer. Its surprising how much our emotions and spirit affects our health.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Louisa

cbsnews:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Throughout the lengthy and sometimes hostile police interrogations, both in 1998 and 2000, the Ramseys maintained their innocence. Now, eight years later, 48 Hours reports that investigators are no longer focusing on the Ramsey family.

Detectives working for the Boulder district attorney now believe that one, possibly two, intruders entered the Ramsey home and killed JonBenet and they are finally concentrating their efforts on the underside of Boulder that was largely ignored during the initial investigation.
Autopsy results showed evidence that JonBenet may have been subdued with a stun gun, and then eventually killed with an intricately tied device known as a garrot.

The current investigation also focuses on the possibility of two intruders, because of two very clear, and different, boot prints in the room where JonBenet was found. And, there's another clue investigators are interested in: a rope found in the bedroom next to JonBenet's
The crime lab has two spots of JonBenet's blood found on the underwear she was wearing the night of the murder. Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

This is the most outrages,
jumping to conclusion statement I have ever read.

Since it took years to isolate the Dna that means it was so minute and degraded that it couldn't even be tested for years.

D.A. Mary Keenan's own investigator said the DNA DOES NOT PROVE WHO KILLED JBR. Tom Bennet said it could very easily have been a sneeze from a factory worker and that's it.

I have the article at home with the exact quote and I'll post it later.

Guys, it's this type of mindless playing with of the facts that makes me crazy.

Do you realize that you, yes every single one of you, has nameless DNA in your underpants and under your fingernails?

JBR "unidentified DNA" was not BLOOD, was not FLESH, wasn't even a FULL STRAND OF DNA." This is how badly degraded it all was.

This DNA MEANS NOTHING. Even the D.A's investigator said so.

edited to add, Sorry guys. I am not upset with anyone. This is why I avoid the JBR forum. When I read the "spin" it makes me nuts.
My only wish is for all of you to really learn the facts. Like with the DNA. It's all available to you at anytime. Just ask and it will be provided.

 

[narlacat]

Hi Louisa

cbsnews:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Throughout the lengthy and sometimes hostile police interrogations, both in 1998 and 2000, the Ramseys maintained their innocence. Now, eight years later, 48 Hours reports that investigators are no longer focusing on the Ramsey family.

Detectives working for the Boulder district attorney now believe that one, possibly two, intruders entered the Ramsey home and killed JonBenet and they are finally concentrating their efforts on the underside of Boulder that was largely ignored during the initial investigation.
Autopsy results showed evidence that JonBenet may have been subdued with a stun gun, and then eventually killed with an intricately tied device known as a garrot.

The current investigation also focuses on the possibility of two intruders, because of two very clear, and different, boot prints in the room where JonBenet was found. And, there's another clue investigators are interested in: a rope found in the bedroom next to JonBenet's
The crime lab has two spots of JonBenet's blood found on the underwear she was wearing the night of the murder. Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

There were not two boot prints, there was no stun gun, JBR was not strangled with the garrote.
The DNA was useless, how can they have a complete profile of the killer with that?
They can't and they don't know the killer is male.
Nothing in that article is true, it is all blatant misinformation.

 

[narlacat]

<<God bless you Patsy Ramsey. May you now finally rest in peace with your daughter and find the serenity denied to you in life. My prayers are with you and your loving family at this time.>>

That's all well and good but JBR is NOT resting in peace.
Her soul is still waiting on closure.

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

But I think that many people will remember Patsy as someone who should have been charged in connection with the death of her daughter but who escaped earthly justice.

Among other lessons in life, parents teach and raise their children to be kindhearted, thoughtful and considerate of others. They also warn their children not to jump to conclusions.

However, not all such lessons-in-life are accepted, and far too many children grow up knowingly abandoning their parent's teachings and warnings. And, in legal matters, they advance to ignoring our presumption of innocence standard as they forge ahead to unsupportable conclusions of guilt or, even worse, pretend that they know another person's guilt is true and certain, when only the person and God could know that.

While this may seem to be little consequence, we will all answer for our actions after we pass on. And adding to the immemse pain that falsely accused people suffer is something that, I believe, God will require those who falsely condemned others to answer for.

It's not like people don't know that it is wrong and hurtful to do so; they do. For we were all brought up and taught to know better. The problem is that many people just don't care if they add to the immense pain some poor soul suffers from cases such as this one. Even worse, there are some people who simply feel good about kicking another person who is lying on the ground and being beaten by a mob.

A truth of life is that no raindrop ever considers itself to be responsible for the flood. However, when people are finally called forth to face their redeemer for willfully partaking in one or more floods, the fact that so many other people did the exact same thing will provide them no shelter, because they knew it is morally wrong, ethically wrong and wrong by the standards of our society. Yet, they did it anyway, often with great relish.

Upon Patsy's passing, I offer the simple reflection that we will all be required to answer for our wrongs.

God bless Patsy and all of the Ramseys.

 

[narlacat]

<<Upon Patsy's passing, I offer the simple reflection that we will all be required to answer for our wrongs.>>

Don't add me in there Wudge, thanks.
I won't be required to do anything of the sort.
I do not believe in Judgement Day, there is no such thing.

 

[TexMex]

There were not two boot prints, there was no stun gun, JBR was not strangled with the garrote.
The DNA was useless, how can they have a complete profile of the killer with that?
They can't and they don't know the killer is male.
Nothing in that article is true, it is all blatant misinformation.

Hi narlacat.

So the only 'truth' is Patsy killed JB? Why?
They have had years to examine these parents, the ransom note, etc. and a DA who wanted to make an arrest of the Ramseys. But there was no proof that either of them was involved.

How many boot prints were there? They are still checking the unknown DNA weekly and it's a full profile, male and not a Ramsey.

Perverts break into peoples homes all the time: BTK, Joseph Duncan....

 

[Tricia]

Here is the article where Tom Bennet, Mary Keenan Lacy's own investigator, this is the D.A. that Lin Wood loves, talks about the DNA.

Ramsey TV blitz rekindles interest
Despite attention, police say case no closer to solution

By Christine Reid, Camera Staff Writer
December 21, 2004

It may seem like the JonBenet Ramsey case is close to being solved because of a weekend media blitz on the subject, but the man handling the investigation said there's been no breakthrough in the 8-year-old case.

Contrary to what was reported on a "48 Hours" special that aired Saturday night on CBS, DNA evidence found in JonBenet's underwear doesn't necessarily belong to the killer, Boulder County District Attorney's Office investigator Tom Bennett said Monday. The office took over the Ramsey case two years ago and entered the DNA evidence into a national database for the first time earlier this year.

The DNA on the underwear may be from the killer, but it may not be," Bennett said. "It's minute DNA, like from a cough or sneeze. ... You can't just jump to conclusion it's positive proof that will trace back to the killer."

*snip*

Sorry, the link to the Camera with this article no longer works. That's why it's not provided.

Think about it. The DNA is like from a cough or a sneeze. Did the killer cough in JBR's underwear but by some miracle did not leave one other bit of DNA ANYWHERE?????

Let's get back to the note. The ransom note. Made with Patsy's pen and paper. The killer even put the cap back on the pen and neatly placed it back in the cup. Yet was rude enough to sneeze and cough......come on my friends....

 

[Tricia]

Hi narlacat.

So the only 'truth' is Patsy killed JB? Why?
They have had years to examine these parents, the ransom note, etc. and a DA who wanted to make an arrest of the Ramseys. But there was no proof that either of them was involved.

How many boot prints were there? They are still checking the unknown DNA weekly and it's a full profile, male and not a Ramsey.

Perverts break into peoples homes all the time: BTK, Joseph Duncan....

Please read my above post about the DNA.

There was only one boot print. According to the 2000 inteviews it was determind that Burke owned a pair of Hi Tech boots like the print that was found. Doesn't matter. Can't date the print.

Also the mysterious palm print? They sent the print in again for testing and it turned out to belong to John's older daughter.

 

[Tricia]

Hi narlacat.

So the only 'truth' is Patsy killed JB? Why?
They have had years to examine these parents, the ransom note, etc. and a DA who wanted to make an arrest of the Ramseys. But there was no proof that either of them was involved.

How many boot prints were there? They are still checking the unknown DNA weekly and it's a full profile, male and not a Ramsey.

Perverts break into peoples homes all the time: BTK, Joseph Duncan....

Name one that left a 3 page ransom note written with pen and paper from the house and even used some of victim's family own mannerisms in the note.

 

[gaia]

<<Upon Patsy's passing, I offer the simple reflection that we will all be required to answer for our wrongs.>>

Don't add me in there Wudge, thanks.
I won't be required to do anything of the sort.
I do not believe in Judgement Day, there is no such thing.

I DO BELIEVE IN KARMA. I'm a Buddhist/Taoist, and I do believe your actions DO MATTER in this life as it has in others. Something you did in another life that's very negative may impact your present life to the extent you can't or don't live a "kind" life. In Patsy's case, I wonder about her former life combined with what she did on this earth while she was here. To me, I find some of her actions (the ones I know about by fact) displayed a person with many problems and in mental disarray. It has never been a large leap for me to believe she was involved to some extent in the death of her daughter. Perhaps she didn't kill her outright or even cover for someone else, but there were other actions (child beauty pageants? for instance?) that lead me to think her decisions regarding JonBenet (a mere child dependant on her mother for good actions and decisions regarding her life) might have been a contributive factor in her child's early horrendous demise.

Just my take and I'm entitled.

gaia

 

[TexMex]

Here is the article where Tom Bennet, Mary Keenan Lacy's own investigator, this is the D.A. that Lin Wood loves, talks about the DNA.

Ramsey TV blitz rekindles interest
Despite attention, police say case no closer to solution

By Christine Reid, Camera Staff Writer
December 21, 2004

It may seem like the JonBenet Ramsey case is close to being solved because of a weekend media blitz on the subject, but the man handling the investigation said there's been no breakthrough in the 8-year-old case.

Contrary to what was reported on a "48 Hours" special that aired Saturday night on CBS, DNA evidence found in JonBenet's underwear doesn't necessarily belong to the killer, Boulder County District Attorney's Office investigator Tom Bennett said Monday. The office took over the Ramsey case two years ago and entered the DNA evidence into a national database for the first time earlier this year.

The DNA on the underwear may be from the killer, but it may not be," Bennett said. "It's minute DNA, like from a cough or sneeze. ... You can't just jump to conclusion it's positive proof that will trace back to the killer."

*snip*

Sorry, the link to the Camera with this article no longer works. That's why it's not provided.

Think about it. The DNA is like from a cough or a sneeze. Did the killer cough in JBR's underwear but by some miracle did not leave one other bit of DNA ANYWHERE?????

Let's get back to the note. The ransom note. Made with Patsy's pen and paper. The killer even put the cap back on the pen and neatly placed it back in the cup. Yet was rude enough to sneeze and cough......come on my friends....

Hi Tricia...

It says to me it's 'like from a cough or sneeze' not for sure a cough or sneeze and that it could be from the killer but also might not be. I don't think putting the cap back on a pen has anything to do with sneezing or coughing--those are pretty involuntary bodily functions