GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #2

[Talina]

The pair are being held at the request of Montana authorities and could soon be extradited to that state, according to the sheriff. "At this particular time," neither man is in a position to help locate Arnold's body, Busching said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/justice/montana-missing-woman/?hpt=hp_t3

Hmmm...wonder why that is? Is it because they are both going through major drug withdrawals right now or because they both have lawyers now who will not allow them to help locate Sherry's body?

Or perhaps what they are demanding in return for their help is just not in the cards for them? Sheesh, at this point it could be anything. That is an odd statement to make, though, that neither is in any position to help.

 

[ynotdivein]

I can completely understand why LE would be discouraging volunteer searchers at this time of year. Also because they seem to be specifically looking for areas near tree lines with matted grass. They do not need non-landowner searchers to destroy a potential evidence site, and they don't want to put volunteer searchers' lives at risk in bad wintry conditions.

Going back to sleuthing the arrested/POIs: as posted in #535 above, Spell has connections back to Lafayette, LA. Which is not an unimaginable drive from where Waters was incarcerated in Florida. Has anyone looked into this yet?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I don't think it sets a good precedent for LE to urge people to break the law. There *are* laws about trespassing in most states.

Plus, sometimes a property known to be vacant attracts criminal activity. I don't know if they have problems with meth labs the way they do in Iowa but if they do, the very last thing they want is for well meaning volunteers to accidentally run into a meth lab operation. Yes, recovering Sherry Arnold's remains is important for her family but I bet her family would feel terrible if a volunteer were killed during the search because they stumbled onto a meth lab.

LE in each jurisdiction probably has a good idea of which properties are vacant. They have access to the county recorder's tax records. It would not be that difficult for LE to contact absent property owners of record and get permission to search.

And LE are trained and prepared to deal with whatever it is they may happen onto when they search with the owner's permission.

I so appreciate the information from those who live in Montana, the Dakotas, and Iowa, It helps me to get a feel for what life is like in these beautiful states.
My SIL and BIL live in Pocatello, Idaho, and are building a cabin in Wyoming. I haven't seen their cabin yet, but I have such a longing to visit those wide open spaces.

I know we have been discussing the crimes on this post, but I realize crime is everywhere, and it doesn't deter me a bit from wanting to visit the upper states. I admire the independent thinking and the self-sufficiency of you all!
:seeya:

 

[Noway]

Have the alleged perps indicated when/where they split up? (Were they together from Sidney to ND?)

I would think they would have wanted to get her out of the vehicle ASAP. They had about 3 hours before she was reported missing. It's about 1 hour to Williston.

I wish they would give description of the truck so people might recall if/when they saw it (or if it is on surveillance in Williston, ND or elsewhere).

I wonder if they've said who the truck belongs to. My thoughts are not organized enough to ask intelligent questions, so I'll go catch up ...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

The pair are being held at the request of Montana authorities and could soon be extradited to that state, according to the sheriff. "At this particular time," neither man is in a position to help locate Arnold's body, Busching said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/justice/montana-missing-woman/?hpt=hp_t3

Hmmm...wonder why that is? Is it because they are both going through major drug withdrawals right now or because they both have lawyers now who will not allow them to help locate Sherry's body?

Sidney's mayor said that, once Arnold's body is found, it is time to have a "serious discussion as to where we go from there." Specifically, he mentioned that the community may want to take a different approach to the influx of outsiders coming to the area for oil industry-related jobs.
"We're not going to point the finger at anybody, (but we could consider) asking, maybe you can run a criminal background check," Smelser said. "I think that's something that we need to discuss."

If he is saying that the oil companies should run criminal background checks on their employees, ITA.

The town's police chief, though, said it could be unfair to jump to too many conclusions about those who haven't been long-time residents, based on Arnold's apparent kidnapping. He urged the public to maintain an open mind and perspective about how rare this incident was.
"What we have here are a couple of individuals that somehow decided to come through our area and, we believe, commit a crime," said DiFonzo. "I just don't think it's fair to criticize one group of people and eliminate anybody else."

I like this guy.

 

[Noway]

I think maybe the perps are saying they hit her with their car and she died of those injuries....in other words, they took her, but she died due to the "accident", not due to anything they did to her after. Without a body, they can't necessarily dispute that. I worry we won't see murder charges unless they find her body and get an autopsy.

jmo

If they admitted to taking her ...

And not calling 911, not taking her to the hospital, taking her wherever, what they did after they hit her did kill her. IMO

Murder without a body ...

Conviction for murder in the absence of a body is possible; although historically, cases of this type have been hard to prove, the prosecution must rely on other evidence, usually circumstantial evidence.
...

The United States case of People v. Scott held that "circumstantial evidence, when sufficient to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis, may prove the death of a missing person, the existence of a homicide and the guilt of the accused".


wikipedia.org look for Murder_conviction_without_a_body

 

[Jacie Estes]

The pair are being held at the request of Montana authorities and could soon be extradited to that state, according to the sheriff. "At this particular time," neither man is in a position to help locate Arnold's body, Busching said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/justice/montana-missing-woman/?hpt=hp_t3

Hmmm...wonder why that is? Is it because they are both going through major drug withdrawals right now or because they both have lawyers now who will not allow them to help locate Sherry's body?

BBM I am wondering why they would extradite Spell from Rapid City, SD to Williston, ND rather than directly to Montana.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I can completely understand why LE would be discouraging volunteer searchers at this time of year. Also because they seem to be specifically looking for areas near tree lines with matted grass. They do not need non-landowner searchers to destroy a potential evidence site, and they don't want to put volunteer searchers' lives at risk in bad wintry conditions.

Going back to sleuthing the arrested/POIs: as posted in #535 above, Spell has connections back to Lafayette, LA. Which is not an unimaginable drive from where Waters was incarcerated in Florida. Has anyone looked into this yet?

The best searches, at this time of year would be aerial searches. It is too vast a space of land with little or no development. If there is a Civil Air Patrol that would be helpful. Also, some of the land may be BLM land, Bureau of Land Management; it would help if they could put some helicopters up.

IF her friends are into snowmobiling, it is possible to do searches with them but again the problem is WHERE.

 

[audie]

I can completely understand why LE would be discouraging volunteer searchers at this time of year. Also because they seem to be specifically looking for areas near tree lines with matted grass. They do not need non-landowner searchers to destroy a potential evidence site, and they don't want to put volunteer searchers' lives at risk in bad wintry conditions.

Going back to sleuthing the arrested/POIs: as posted in #535 above, Spell has connections back to Lafayette, LA. Which is not an unimaginable drive from where Waters was incarcerated in Florida. Has anyone looked into this yet?

IMO, unless LE gets a specific location, Sherry won't be found until spring, without organized volunteer searches. She may not be found until spring anyway, though. jmo

 

[ynotdivein]

We have what appears to be a clue from one or another of the suspects, that Sherry is near a tree line/wind break with older trees and matted grass/other growth. I am not 100% sure about how easy it would be to dig in that region right now, but suspect we are looking for a shallow grave if any (Sherry, I am sorry to have to type that, may you rest in peace forever).

It may be more productive for us to focus on what we know about the two perps in custody. One has a long rap sheet in Florida at least. The other is younger but has a presence in social media sites. We need to know how these two crossed paths, and how they both became involved in whatever happened to Sherry.

 

[audie]

If they admitted to taking her ...

And not calling 911, not taking her to the hospital, taking her wherever, what they did after they hit her did kill her. IMO

Murder without a body ...

Conviction for murder in the absence of a body is possible; although historically, cases of this type have been hard to prove, the prosecution must rely on other evidence, usually circumstantial evidence.
...

The United States case of People v. Scott held that "circumstantial evidence, when sufficient to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis, may prove the death of a missing person, the existence of a homicide and the guilt of the accused".


wikipedia.org look for Murder_conviction_without_a_body

A website to ponder.

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/

 

[Noway]

FWIW, I live in Montana and the food trucks (of which there is a business in Sidney) do not drive vans.

They drive trucks. Scroll to the bottom of their website.

Would anyone call that a van? I wouldn't but IDK about the person who made the comment "to C.L.T." ...

ETA
There may well be other companies in Sidney that sell meat/food and do use vans. But we refer to drivers of these trucks (at website above) as "The S***** Man" when we see them around our area. My kids knew the trucks by sight long before they knew what the S***** Man delivered.

 

[ynotdivein]

We generally can't talk about the comments on other websites, as they are considered to be rumors.

But there is plenty of good sleuthing going on here. Keep it up, peeps!

 

[liltexans]

Sidney's police chief said both men list Parachute, Colorado as their home. The small town is located between Grand Junction and Denver. Mayor Pro Tem Judith Hayward said about one thousand people live there.
"I've lived here for 27 years and I've never heard of this Michael Keith (Spell) or Lester Van Waters," she said.
Like Sidney, the small western town is experiencing a boom.

As far as Hayward knows, neither Waters nor Spell has had any legal issues in Parachute.

http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Men-Being-Held-in-Arnold-Case-137451198.html

 

[maggieo]

FWIW, I live in Montana and the food trucks (of which there is a business in Sidney) do not drive vans.

They drive trucks. Scroll to the bottom of their website.

Would anyone call that a van? I wouldn't but IDK about the person who made the comment "to C.L.T." ...

ETA
There may well be other companies in Sidney that sell meat/food and do use vans. But we refer to drivers of these trucks (at website above) as "The S***** Man" when we see them around our area. My kids knew the trucks by sight long before they knew what the S***** Man delivered.

Schwann's guys are legitimate. But there's a weird thing where very iffy looking guys show up and are very pushy about selling meat -- one day we found some guys in our mudroom (creepy, methy-looking guys) and when we asked what the heck they were doing there, they asked if we wanted meat some leftover meat they had -- good price, they said. Um, no.

 

[ynotdivein]

Again, IMO we need to be looking at where MKS and DVW were previously. Where did they first form a relationship? Waters was in Florida. Was Spell in FL or nearby? Does he have family there? How does a 22 year old hook up with a 47 year old?

 

[Jacie Estes]

We have what appears to be a clue from one or another of the suspects, that Sherry is near a tree line/wind break with older trees and matted grass/other growth. I am not 100% sure about how easy it would be to dig in that region right now, but suspect we are looking for a shallow grave if any (Sherry, I am sorry to have to type that, may you rest in peace forever).

It may be more productive for us to focus on what we know about the two perps in custody. One has a long rap sheet in Florida at least. The other is younger but has a presence in social media sites. We need to know how these two crossed paths, and how they both became involved in whatever happened to Sherry.

Most likely the body would be covered with brush, that far north the ground would be too hard to dig with out prior prep [think josh powell and generator to thaw ground]. Property owners, ranchers who run their own herds, would know their land; those who lease might not be so familiar. Also, oil companies have small planes and helicopters; a good PR move for them would be to get involved with searches.

 

[maggieo]

Sidney's police chief said both men list Parachute, Colorado as their home. The small town is located between Grand Junction and Denver. Mayor Pro Tem Judith Hayward said about one thousand people live there.
"I've lived here for 27 years and I've never heard of this Michael Keith (Spell) or Lester Van Waters," she said.
Like Sidney, the small western town is experiencing a boom.

As far as Hayward knows, neither Waters nor Spell has had any legal issues in Parachute.

http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Men-Being-Held-in-Arnold-Case-137451198.html

Judging by their rap sheets, they're pretty itinerant... I doubt if they were long-standing citizens of Parachute, or anywhere...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Sidney's police chief said both men list Parachute, Colorado as their home. The small town is located between Grand Junction and Denver. Mayor Pro Tem Judith Hayward said about one thousand people live there.
"I've lived here for 27 years and I've never heard of this Michael Keith (Spell) or Lester Van Waters," she said.
Like Sidney, the small western town is experiencing a boom.

As far as Hayward knows, neither Waters nor Spell has had any legal issues in Parachute.

http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Men-Being-Held-in-Arnold-Case-137451198.html

If both men were in Parachute prior to being in Sidney it is interesting that they went from boom town to boom town.

 

[liltexans]

NewsChannel 5 spoke to a family member of Spell who was not comfortable having his name published, but he tells us he thinks Spell was threatened by Waters.

"He [Spell] was going up there to work with this guy and came to find out the guy threatened Michael, my brother, that if he didn't do what he said and everything, he would come back and kill his little baby and his wife," he said.

The family member said he couldn't elaborate on exactly what Spell was threatened to do.

http://www.krextv.com/news/around-t...-Aggravated-Kidnapping-Charges-137449343.html