GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #4

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I decided to submit it to le after reading that last article...they may have already checked it. but, ya never know, worth a try.

Great idea, Haunts!
I hope LE considers it! :seeya:

 

[MagnoliaMom]

BBM

Have you ever been involved in an application for SSI benefits for a young person in good physical condition who has a mental disability? I'm involved in that situation right now and it is not simple, quick or easy.

The person I am trying to get benefits for cannot hold down an entry level job (she's tried and failed multiple times), she has medical charts and test results inches thick diagnosing her mental disability and she's already been denied twice.

She lives with me and I know first hand that she cannot follow a three item list even if it is written down (and she is literate). She cannot handle money. She has absolutely zero judgment with people but we've been informed that unless she gets SSI, it is highly unlikely we can get her declared legally incompetent.

If Spell has ever been able to hold down a job, even odd jobs, that makes the likelihood of him being granted SSI even lower.

If you don't have legal guardianship over someone, what exactly do you propose to do if that person announces what seems to you to clearly be a cockamanie scheme to leave with someone you think is skeevy, go somewhere and find work? You're not allowed to handcuff them to their bed!

Yes I have been involved. Spells family has had 22 years to work on these issues if they were warranted. That is plenty of time even with a lengthy process.

I am sorry you are frustrated with your situation. It is not a quick and easy process. Don't give up. Appeal the process as many times as it takes and getting an attorney that specializes in this area might be helpful. Often they will take a case without pay until they win then take a percent of the lump sum payment which reaches back to the first date one applies for SSI.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I decided to submit it to le after reading that last article...they may have already checked it. but, ya never know, worth a try.

Good for you, Haunts!

Better they get a repeat on a lead than not get the lead at all.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes I have been involved. Spells family has had 22 years to work on these issues if they were warranted. That is plenty of time even with a lengthy process.

I am sorry you are frustrated with your situation. It is not a quick and easy process. Don't give up. Appeal the process as many times as it takes and getting an attorney that specializes in this area might be helpful. Often they will take a case without pay until they win then take a percent of the lump sum payment which reaches back to the first date one applies for SSI.

BBM

Thanks for the encouragement. It's definitely time to delegate some of the head banging.

I agree with all the above, except the bit I bolded. Assuming Spell does have some sort of mental disability, it may not have been diagnosed at birth or even in the first several years of school, particularly if he didn't manifest any behavioural issues in elementary school. Quiet kids who can fake it to a certain extent can easily fly under the radar in the classroom.

Then there's also the whole issue of whether the family even realised he might qualify for SSI benefits due to mental disability. There's plenty of people who think you are only qualified if you're a blind and deaf quadruple amputee and it just doesn't even occur to them to look into it.

I'm not sure how to say the following the right way; I don't want to sound as if I'm casting aspersions about Spell's family because I'm really not. It occurs to me that a family who knows their kid is illiterate after first grade or so may indicate one of a few things:

a) they fought for their kid to get an IEP and accommodations for years and even with tons of assistance, Spell was unable to learn to read and write (which would indicate he really does have serious mental impairment);

b) they didn't realise that it's not normal for a child to be illiterate after the first grade (which could indicate that his parents are somewhat impaired themselves);

c) they realised he was not performing at grade level but were unable to effectively advocate for him;

d) they just didn't care (but I believe this is contra-indicated by the fact that they have
Spell's girlfriend and their grandchild living with them, hardly the behaviour of people who don't care).

I think it comes down to my personal bias: families of perpetrators who cooperate with LE get sympathy from me. What a horrible position to be in.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ap-exclusive-kidnapping-suspect-promised-work-15805929

Authorities suggested Tuesday that may be a factor in the failure so far to locate Arnold's body. Sheriff Scott Busching of North Dakota's Williams County said investigators have taken Michael Spell out to find where Arnold is buried, but he has been unable to find the spot.

"He has no concept of time or distance so he couldn't tell us how far he was from town (when Arnold was buried) and he couldn't even tell us if he was in the state," Busching said. "I think he's trying to help but doesn't really know how."

This might sway me.

But working with Waters proved difficult. He would often tell McConnell, Spell and other workers to be at a location at 7 a.m., then not show up until around noon, failing to answer his cellphone.

Wonder how Spell knew when it was 7 a.m. Seems like they are saying Spell was there on time but Waters wasn't.

But getting a straight story out of him was always difficult, Barry McConnell said, especially when they asked him whether he would get a job to help support his son.

"He would talk in riddles," Barry McConnell said, adding that at some point they stopped believing anything he said.

I hate to bring up that case in Florida but some could have called her a riddler of words too. It could be associated with some disorder or it could be a way of sugar coating using the word liar.

Nadine McConnell says she is angry, astonished and horrified.

"To think that I let him into my house, I fed him, invited him to birthday parties," she said.

Sounds like Spell fooled his girlfriend's mother.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wonder how Spell knew when it was 7 a.m. Seems like they are saying Spell was there on time but Waters wasn't.

Since he was living at home with his parents and his girlfriend, I think the simplest explanation would be that someone else in the household got him up and out the door on time.

Sounds like Spell fooled his girlfriend's mother.

Ms Nadine McConnell, the woman who made the quote you referenced, is the mother of Spell's cousin (I don't know if she's related to the Spell family herself or married into the relationship).

When even the investigating sheriff says he think Spell is trying to help, I think the most likely explanation is that Spell really is trying to help but has mental impairments such that he cannot effectively assist.

What the family said about Spell wanting to prove himself by getting a good job, even after repeated failures, is sadly all too familiar to me. My niece would also love to get a job, any job, but particularly a well paying job because after the teasing and even bullying she went through in school, she has almost zilch self-esteem. She may not be able to hold down a job but she knows that having a good job and being financially successful are status indicators in this culture (not that she herself would word it that way) and would be something that would "prove" she is worthy of respect.

It has been really hard for me to explain to her that she is worthy of respect because she is a human being, because she has many fine character traits (gentle, sympathetic, kind, caring of other's feelings, etc) when so few of her peers have actually shown her respect. And it's not at all abnormal for a young person to place more weight on their peers' opinions than those of their elders.

Anyway, I think it's possible that Spell knows that in this culture a "real" man is supposed to support his family. And he has repeatedly failed to do so, which may have made him predisposed to believe an older man who held out the promise of a high paying oil field job.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Anyway, I think it's possible that Spell knows that in this culture a "real" man is supposed to support his family. And he has repeatedly failed to do so, which may have made him predisposed to believe an older man who held out the promise of a high paying oil field job.

Sadly, that older man was a drug addicted ex-con that killed for sport. Reminds me a little of the Lee Malvo/John Mohammed duo in their age/relationship.

 

[liltexans]

I'm assuming Spell's attorney has ordered or will order a psych evaluation for him. Illiterate does not mean unintelligent, necessarily, but it does sound like there might be something really wrong with him. Maybe he really does have a mental disability.

 

[neesaki]

I'm just now trying to get caught up on this case so my apologies if this has already been discussed. My question is, have they been able to track the suspects movements during that time via their cell phone signals ? TIA

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm just now trying to get caught up on this case so my apologies if this has already been discussed. My question is, have they been able to track the suspects movements during that time via their cell phone signals ? TIA

If they have (LE) they are not talking. They are keeping everything close to the vest.

 

[neesaki]

I just read where the suspects returned the shovel to Walmart. Did they even use it? Idk but I have a hard time believing two drugged up scumbags would go to the time and effort to dig a large hole in frozen ground to bury someone they just murdered. Do we know if the landfills have been searched , maybe they just threw Sherry's body in a dumpster. I just think that whatever they are telling is just to throw investigators off where she really is. Jmo

 

[GrainneDhu]

Sadly, that older man was a drug addicted ex-con that killed for sport. Reminds me a little of the Lee Malvo/John Mohammed duo in their age/relationship.

I think you're right.

If Spell is as impaired as the various media sources indicate, then he probably did not have the ability to accurately judge Waters's character or to quickly figure out his options when Waters started telling him he wanted to grab a woman.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm assuming Spell's attorney has ordered or will order a psych evaluation for him. Illiterate does not mean unintelligent, necessarily, but it does sound like there might be something really wrong with him. Maybe he really does have a mental disability.

As you say, illiterate does not equal unintelligent but if his family is correct, Spell has made several attempts to hold down jobs and failed each time. Multiple failures to hold down jobs for someone who is eager to have one does seem to indicate some sort of mental impairment.

The more I read about this case, the more tragic it seems to me.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I just read where the suspects returned the shovel to Walmart. Did they even use it? Idk but I have a hard time believing two drugged up scumbags would go to the time and effort to dig a large hole in frozen ground to bury someone they just murdered. Do we know if the landfills have been searched , maybe they just threw Sherry's body in a dumpster. I just think that whatever they are telling is just to throw investigators off where she really is. Jmo

Michael Spell is the only one talking, apparently. And if he's just trying to throw investigators off, then he's being pretty successful because even the sheriff in charge of the investigation in North Dakota has said he believes Spell is trying to cooperate.

Adding that to what Spell's family (who have been cooperating with LE) says about Michael Spell and it sounds like he really is mentally impaired.

 

[Noway]

Michael Spell had found past work in the oil fields near Parachute and on a fire damage cleanup crew, but was unable to keep the jobs "because he didn't quite understand what to do," Harry Spell said.

"He might be 22 years old, but he has an education less than a kindergartner," Harry Spell said.

Source

Weber said he is going to hire additional staff because of the "voluminous" amount of discovery evidence that is coming into his office, in particular from the FBI. About 130 potential witnesses in the case were listed in court documents, ranging from law enforcement officers and teachers, to evidence technicians and family members of the victim and suspects.

Source

State District Judge Katherine Irigoin set separate five-day trails for the men to begin in July.

Source

 

[Noway]

I wish there was someone from the Williston area that could tell us whether the screen shots above of the farm near Walmart reflect what the area loooks like now.

Street View images are not real time

Our images show only what our vehicles were able to see on the day that they drove past the location. Afterward, it takes at least a few months to process the collected images before they appear online. This means that images you look at on Street View could be anywhere from a few months to a few years old.

Link

 

[HauntsForHope]

I wish there was someone from the Williston area that could tell us whether the screen shots above of the farm near Walmart reflect what the area loooks like now.

Yes, so do i.... I pulled those from google earth and it says 2012 on the bottom but i believe somewhere in my research i saw 2009 in the Farm Maps Certification. I received confirmation of my tip being given to Williston PD. So, I can try to relax, knowing that it's being considered...lease:

 

[Wat-Da-Hek]

Originally Posted by Noway View Post
I wish there was someone from the Williston area that could tell us whether the screen shots above of the farm near Walmart reflect what the area loooks like now.

Yes.....those pictures depict it almost exactly as it appears right now, minus the little bit of snow that has been blowing around the last couple of days.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Originally Posted by Noway View Post
I wish there was someone from the Williston area that could tell us whether the screen shots above of the farm near Walmart reflect what the area loooks like now.

Yes.....those pictures depict it almost exactly as it appears right now, minus the little bit of snow that has been blowing around the last couple of days.

Thanks! It's time to bring Sherry home.

 

[Elley Mae]

I just read where the suspects returned the shovel to Walmart. Did they even use it? Idk but I have a hard time believing two drugged up scumbags would go to the time and effort to dig a large hole in frozen ground to bury someone they just murdered. Do we know if the landfills have been searched , maybe they just threw Sherry's body in a dumpster. I just think that whatever they are telling is just to throw investigators off where she really is. Jmo

It doesn't make sense to return the shovel that's for sure, but these two were supposedly on a cocaine high so who knows.

One thing I thought about was the ground harder then they expected or did they find someplace on the way to bury her that did not require the shovel. Maybe this is where LE saying to look in the "wind break lines" iirc and that there could just be debris on her to cover. idk

I am sure they were low on funds to return the shovel, seems it would have been at least 20 bucks, idk