Muslim woman cites gym after interrupted prayer

[2sisters]

I don't care what the hell you are doing in front of my locker, I want you to move so I can leave. Short of a medican emergency taking place in from of my locker I want you gone, i want to get dressed and leave, i do not want to wait for you to finish your prayer. if this was a christain who was involved and not a muslim we would laugh and talk about what a Jesus freak they must be and how stupid thoseright wing religious types are( I wouldn't but you get my meaning I hope).What makes her so important that she can do what she pleases?

 

[Karole28]

if this was a christain who was involved and not a muslim we would laugh and talk about what a Jesus freak they must be and how stupid thoseright wing religious types are( I wouldn't but you get my meaning I hope).What makes her so important that she can do what she pleases?

EXACTLY my point.

 

[nanandjim]

Hey You! Merry Christmas!

Exactly my thoughts. It appears that this woman asked the other to move, and she wouldn't cease praying, so things got a bit ugly (to what extent, I don't know).

I guess that the woman could have just pulled the back of the towel that the woman was praying on and moved her in front of another locker. Perhaps, the meditator wouldn't notice. :innocent:

...what do you do when the ENTIRE plane-load of passengers is uncomfortable?

Pick me, pick me. I know the answer to this question! It is: You remove the discomfort! Am I right??

 

[Karole28]

I guess that the woman could have just pulled the back of the towel that the woman was praying on and moved her in front of another locker. Perhaps, the meditator wouldn't notice. :innocent:

BWHAHAHAHA! The mental pic is priceless!

Pick me, pick me. I know the answer to this question! It is: You remove the discomfort! Am I right??

Ding ding ding ding!! No more callers! We have a winner!

You could have also won with the answer: Remove one engine from plane and feign technical malfunction. But, we will accept your first choice!


Now, I've got to figure out a prize.

..pocket lint? no... ..digging deeper...old receipts...no...hmm...

 

[nanandjim]

...Ding ding ding ding!! No more callers! We have a winner!

You could have also won with the answer: Remove one engine from plane and feign technical malfunction. But, we will accept your first choice!


Now, I've got to figure out a prize.

..pocket lint? no... ..digging deeper...old receipts...no...hmm...

Well, since you're upping the ante by giving prizes, I want to change my answer. Instead of feigning technical difficulties, I would just start passing gas and then light a match. (Didn't this type of incident cause another plane to land?)

 

[Karole28]

Well, since you're upping the ante by giving prizes, I want to change my answer. Instead of feigning technical difficulties, I would just start passing gas and then light a match. (Didn't this type of incident cause another plane to land?)

Ohh, very sneaky. While this won't win you any friends, it does indeed pass the 'smell test' for "religious intolerance" melee avoidance.

I award you an additional 100 points!

Which brings the prize to whatever I can find in the pocket of my cargo pants.

You may choose your prize from the following:

Hershey kiss wrapper, can be reused for Christmas tree ornament, or to throw at someone ala spitball

One container of Burt's Bees lip ointment which survived a trip through the washer and dryer

Your choice!

 

[nanandjim]

...Your choice!

Tough decision. :waitasec: I'll mull it over and get back to you.

 

[Nova]

Call me an "ugly American" if you want. However, I have rights, too.

As far as I know, none of us has a constitutional right to feel "comfortable."

In the case of the gym, the praying woman was obstructing the intended use of the facilities. I have no problem with her being asked to leave.

However, that is simply not the same as making others leave a plane because somebody feels uncomfortable.

As for a grand conspiracy, the assertion of individual rights (religious or not) is as American as apple pie, even when that assertion is unreasonable and ultimately fails. If there's a grand plan, it's probably American rather than Muslim.

 

[Karole28]

However, that is simply not the same as making others leave a plane because somebody feels uncomfortable.

Exactly my point made earlier. If someBODY feels uncomfortable, they have a right to disembark and rent a car/book another flight, etc. If the ENTIRE PLANE (including a hindi speaking woman who was translating the men for the flight crew) feels uncomfortable, they have every right and a responsibility to remove those people making the majority uncomfortable.

As for a grand conspiracy, the assertion of individual rights (religious or not) is as American as apple pie, even when that assertion is unreasonable and ultimately fails. If there's a grand plan, it's probably American rather than Muslim.

Yes, it is, however, I do think there is a grand plan, and I don't believe for a second that it's American. I believe this is a concerted effort (why Fitness USA? Why not Gold's? Why not a small local chain?) by the Muslims who have an agenda to either shut us up and make us conform. Or even more sinister, to make us shut up, conform, so we won't make as much noise when the next terror attack occurs.

 

[eve]

As far as I know, none of us has a constitutional right to feel "comfortable."

In the case of the gym, the praying woman was obstructing the intended use of the facilities. I have no problem with her being asked to leave.

However, that is simply not the same as making others leave a plane because somebody feels uncomfortable.

As for a grand conspiracy, the assertion of individual rights (religious or not) is as American as apple pie, even when that assertion is unreasonable and ultimately fails. If there's a grand plan, it's probably American rather than Muslim.

When you're in a plane the FAA rules govern. Constitutional protections kick in when there is government action. Still, in this day and age I think people have to mind the flight attendants and captain. Period. Because of 9/11 certain actions (it could be argued) could incite violence on an aircraft.

Compelling interest, imo.


Eve

 

[Paladin]

I don't think the gym employee who intervened was out of line at all by their comments. As harsh as it sounds, the truth hurts. The woman who complained really doesn't have to respect the Muslim woman's God. However, the Muslim woman, as a fellow patron of said establishment, must respect the rules of the establishment, including not interfering with fellow patrons.

It's silly to argue this. I'm getting sick of all this PC .

 

[BarnGoddess]

Here's another one in the news today: Katy, Texas. An Ilsamic group buys 11 acres in this upscale neighborhood and plans to build a mosque for its 500 members. There's fighting with the neighbors and a lot of controversy.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4808968

Craig Baker owns pigs. He's the guy behind the second big yellow sign on Baker Road. That's the one announcing Friday night pig races.


"What does it matter, I can do whatever I want with my land right," asked landowner Craig Baker.


Sure can. But aren't pigs on the property line racing on a Friday night a little offensive to a Muslim neighbor?


"The meat of a pig is prohibited in the religion of Islam," said Katy Islamic Association member Youssof Allam. "It's looked upon as a dirty creature."

Lots more at Google :

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=KATY+TEXAS+ISLAMIC+MOSQUE

The Rocky Mountain News carried this article with a picture of Baker from the AP. They also mentioned a loudspeaker calling Muslims to prayer. Supposedly there's a tape somewhere of what it would sound like and is not supposed to disturb the neighbors.

I can imagine what would happen if someone would come in and buy a parcel of land here in my area for a Mosque. I don't believe there are any Muslims around except for maybe some in the Kit Carson Correctional Facility here.

 

[Karole28]

Here's another one in the news today: Katy, Texas. An Ilsamic group buys 11 acres in this upscale neighborhood and plans to build a mosque for its 500 members. There's fighting with the neighbors and a lot of controversy.

Craig Baker owns pigs. He's the guy behind the second big yellow sign on Baker Road. That's the one announcing Friday night pig races.


"What does it matter, I can do whatever I want with my land right," asked landowner Craig Baker.

hmm..this can't end well.

lol

 

[eve]

I don't think the gym employee who intervened was out of line at all by their comments. As harsh as it sounds, the truth hurts. The woman who complained really doesn't have to respect the Muslim woman's God. However, the Muslim woman, as a fellow patron of said establishment, must respect the rules of the establishment, including not interfering with fellow patrons.

It's silly to argue this. I'm getting sick of all this PC .

Considering the climate in much of the world we are really spoiled - we have many protections and built-in respect for our wide range of beliefs and there is actually much bending over backward going on - with our institutions, laws, immigration policies, and even in private businesses. In the field of education, I can't tell you how much time is spent on this!

And yet, as a country we seem to be so criticized - especially by our own citizens. In some countries, they cut off your hand and ask questions later. I really think we as Americans have a distorted perspective. Not a day goes by that a student says he/she is going to sue me, the school or some such tripe, for infinging upon their "rights". This is usually in response to my implementing a well-known, established rule of some sort. They think they know so much about "rights" but they have no idea what is really in the Constitution. And rules? Huh? There are rules? In school? Huh?

This week I took advantage of our legal system myself. I called the police and filed a report on a kid who was putting gang-related grafitti onone of my classroom computers and then told me I was "asking to get shot" when I told her to to delete it. She was yelling about free speech too! "I have a right to put what I want on here!" Haha - I just told her it wasn't part of the assignment. I suspended her for 5 days. I hope they charge her and her probation officer agrees. But you now what? I bet they won't!

She'll be back. But I'll still be here, too. :furious:

Eve

 

[Nova]

Exactly my point made earlier. If someBODY feels uncomfortable, they have a right to disembark and rent a car/book another flight, etc. If the ENTIRE PLANE (including a hindi speaking woman who was translating the men for the flight crew) feels uncomfortable, they have every right and a responsibility to remove those people making the majority uncomfortable.

The problem with that argument is that minorities always make the majority feel uncomfortable. Before we start evicting people from airplanes (or buses or malls or...), we need a better standard than the subjective feelings of others.

(I know your argument isn't a personal attack on me (or anyone else), but I do have a personal stake in this. It wasn't too long ago when the discomfort of the majority around people like me (gay) was used as an excuse to put us in prison, insane asylums, etc. We still have that policy in the military: no gays because we might make other soldiers uncomfortable. Nobody even bothers to argue any more that gays make inferior soldiers.)

 

[Karole28]

The problem with that argument is that minorities always make the majority feel uncomfortable. Before we start evicting people from airplanes (or buses or malls or...), we need a better standard than the subjective feelings of others.

Fine. If and when a group of gay men start blowing up citizens, we'll worry about you.

My point is that one person feeling "uncomfortable" might be subjective. An entire plane load isn't.

(I know your argument isn't a personal attack on me (or anyone else), but I do have a personal stake in this. It wasn't too long ago when the discomfort of the majority around people like me (gay) was used as an excuse to put us in prison, insane asylums, etc. We still have that policy in the military: no gays because we might make other soldiers uncomfortable. Nobody even bothers to argue any more that gays make inferior soldiers.)

Ok, you have a valid point, but ignore your personal bias for a second and hear me out.

The discomfort you're describing above is WAY more about that person than it is anything you have done to deserve it. We have grown leaps and bounds since those witch hunts and pathetic excuses for discrimination.

What I'm talking about is a group of people who have publicly stated that it is their goal to convert the entire world to their backwards religion and kill the hold outs. Now, it's bad enough that they're saying this out loud, but they've started implementing this goal in the other parts of the world (Sudan, Thailand, etc). You can clearly see what their intentions are and they're willing to implement what they need to, to reach this goal.

I'm a woman working in a corporate environment (we've discussed this before) and I've been the subject of bias and prejudice, so I do know where you're coming from.

This is not the same thing.

Please God, don't make me have to respond to this with the "I'm not talking about all Muslims" disclaimer, if you know how to read, you should understand that (not directed at you, Nova).

 

[Nova]

Karole, I do understand your concern and I promise: if gay men start blowing up buildings with airplanes, I will EXPECT increased scrutiny at airports, not complain about it.

But the fact that a mob shares subjective feelings does not make those feelings objective. "Mob violence" is proof of that. (I'm reading Lillian Helman's book - Scoundrel Time - on HUAC at the moment; more example of how subjective fears can infect all the members of a crowd.)

I still think we need a test for threats other than what fellow passengers may feel.

 

[Karole28]

But the fact that a mob shares subjective feelings does not make those feelings objective. "Mob violence" is proof of that. (I'm reading Lillian Helman's book - Scoundrel Time - on HUAC at the moment; more example of how subjective fears can infect all the members of a crowd.)

I still think we need a test for threats other than what fellow passengers may feel.

Well, they did have a test. These people didn't just group together and bodily throw these men on the tarmac. The pilot was alerted, spoke to the FBI and the local Law Enforcement and they determined that there was enough reasonable doubt (regarding the fellow passengers and flight crew claims) to forcibly detain these men.

There has been speculation that these men may have purposefully been acting in ways to alert suspicion so that they could claim that they had been unfairly profiled.

 

[Karole28]

Karole, I do understand your concern

I know you do. And, I hope you also realize that if the hardliners get their way on this, you and I will be the first kinds of people they'll come for.

 

[Nova]

Well, they did have a test. These people didn't just group together and bodily throw these men on the tarmac. The pilot was alerted, spoke to the FBI and the local Law Enforcement and they determined that there was enough reasonable doubt (regarding the fellow passengers and flight crew claims) to forcibly detain these men.

Karole, those are procedures and they are important. What I'm talking about, however, are criteria.

(And I readily admit I'm not that familiar with the case you are citing. I'm just speaking to principle here.)